What does TL mean?

Right, just like ALL international commerce has to come through U.S. Custom controlled ports. Except it doesn't and won't when there is money to be made. :ROFLMAO: I'm not talking about extremely bad game rules games rules but what would actually happen.
(Just like no drugs are imported into the US. :P) <----sarcasm... I agree completely with you on this.
 
Most starports (Edit - In the Imperium) are TL-12. The good smugglers would have better stealth and better sensors than the starport. The bad smugglers get caught and executed. I see no issue here.
 
Right, just like ALL international commerce has to come through U.S. Custom controlled ports. Except it doesn't and won't when there is money to be made. :ROFLMAO: I'm not talking about extremely bad game rules games rules but what would actually happen.
I think you are massively inflating the amount of smuggled goods brought into the US, the current penalty for loading a boat and making a dash for it are pretty severe...

The setting is very specific and very clear on this. if you don't use the starport lethal force will be authorised. Ignore what happens in the real world, or at least try using a useful analogy - what happens to drug smugglers in Singapore...

there is a reason why back in CT the Imperium was portrayed as corrupt and that core skills include bribery and forgery, as well as admin.

Contrary to fanon opinion the Third Imperium is not the USA in space...
 
I think you are massively inflating the amount of smuggled goods brought into the US
Nope. I am not. THOUSANDS of TONS of drugs successfully enter the USA annually. A similar amount of normal goods were imported evading US Customs. And millions of people entering NOT through ports of entry. I am UNDERESTIMATING the amount of goods that would illegally flood the 3I by many orders of magnitude.
 
Guys, smuggling doesn't usually - officially - carry the death penalty. You're going overboard with this. (Note: historically, it was sometimes considered a capital crime, but usually only under certain circumstances, such as particularly heinous goods or trading with the enemy.) Smuggling is much more often punished by confiscation, steep fines, and/or long imprisonment - mostly and rather than or. Death would normally be for related offenses, most particularly armed resistance.
 
Nope. I am not. THOUSANDS of TONS of drugs successfully enter the USA annually. A similar amount of normal goods were imported evading US Customs. And millions of people entering NOT through ports of entry. I am UNDERESTIMATING the amount of goods that would illegally flood the 3I by many orders of magnitude.
Compared with the close to billion tons of other imports, your analogy is worthless, the Imperium of the 57th century is not modelled by the US of the 21st.

• Global trade in 2024 was of the order of 754 million metric tons imported into the U.S.
• 2–7% of world trade is illicit (UN best estimate)
• Therefore for the U.S., the total of all illicit smuggled goods may be in the tens of millions of tons annually.

Now, like I said, imagine the US controlled its ports the way the Imperium controls its borders and starports, and that the penalties for illicit trade are death, and any US state found to be complicit is immediately interdicted.
 
Compared with the close to billion tons of other imports, your analogy is worthless,
Wrong again. If the US had similar monopoly creating rules that the 3I does for major goods the illicit imports would be a 1000 times higher than they are now. You just have a very poor understanding of macro econ so your opinion is less than worthless on this matter..
 
Guys, smuggling doesn't usually - officially - carry the death penalty.
That is very much country specific. The Imperium has very harsh penalties for individuals and worlds that interfere with Imperial trade.
You're going overboard with this. (Note: historically, it was sometimes considered a capital crime, but usually only under certain circumstances, such as particularly heinous goods or trading with the enemy.)
It is a capital crime in the Imperium, enough to get the death penalty or a lifetime on a prison planet. Whole world have been interdicted as a punishment for being complicit in trade irregularity, those interdictions can escalate. Even with no escalation the world will likely see an increase to their death rate.
Smuggling is much more often punished by confiscation, steep fines, and/or long imprisonment - mostly and rather than or. Death would normally be for related offenses, most particularly armed resistance.
The Imperium is not a western liberal democracy that grants a right to a fair trial - it carries out instant justice and wields the death penalty.
 
Wrong again.
How can UN figures be wrong? Take it up with them.
If the US had similar monopoly creating rules that the 3I does for major goods the illicit imports would be a 1000 times higher than they are now.
That is your opinion, canon says otherwise, I will stick with canon rather than your opinion.

You just have a very poor understanding of macro econ so your opinion is less than worthless on this matter..

Oh dear, comments like that are the last resort of a feeble intellect, with that you lose the argument and discussion.
 
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Guys, smuggling doesn't usually - officially - carry the death penalty. You're going overboard with this.
If the 3I went bananas over this on the planetary level, as some here suggest they would, that would cause the disintegration of the 3I. Just like other insane dictatorships on Earth.
 
Confiscating the spacecraft involved is punishment enough.


In the United States, civil forfeiture (also called civil asset forfeiture or civil judicial forfeiture)[1] is a process in which law enforcement officers take assets from people who are suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing. While civil procedure, as opposed to criminal procedure, generally involves a dispute between two private citizens, civil forfeiture involves a dispute between law enforcement and property such as a pile of cash or a house or a boat, such that the thing is suspected of being involved in a crime. To get back the seized property, owners must prove it was not involved in criminal activity. Sometimes it can mean a threat to seize property as well as the act of seizure itself.[2] Civil forfeiture is not considered to be an example of a criminal justice financial obligation.
 
I think you are massively inflating the amount of smuggled goods brought into the US, the current penalty for loading a boat and making a dash for it are pretty severe...

The setting is very specific and very clear on this. if you don't use the starport lethal force will be authorised. Ignore what happens in the real world, or at least try using a useful analogy - what happens to drug smugglers in Singapore...
there is a reason why back in CT the Imperium was portrayed as corrupt and that core skills include bribery and forgery, as well as admin.
So, your viewpoint is that massive smuggling would occur, but only at starports where most to all of the workers are corrupt?
 
So the author is happy to destroy the setting, or has added the fluff without thinking how it will interact with the Third Imperium.

The Imperium has enough TL16 worlds for long enough to crank out these automated planet gobblers, they should be all over the Imperium by now. So now there has to be a hand wave for why they are not and how they are restricted and how the restriction is enforced etc etc.

This is the danger of saying here is a generic book with lots of technologies, not all of which belong in every setting. Here is the Third Imperium, every technology in every book exists in it somewhere...
The Mongooseverse Charted Space 1105 setting only has one real TL16 world inside the Imperium: Vincennes. There is another in the Hierate: Teahehwaih, though much of its production goes to placating its rivals. Beyond that, there are three others that don't really make the cut in my opinion. One is Darrian which can't make anything at that tech level, Pashus with 80,000 people and Research Station Zeta, a jump drive research station mentioned in Singularity, and Gannvair with 500 pop and a commune of engineers working on high tech computers and sensors. You'd need to move a decade in the future to find more.
 
No , I think there will be limited smuggling that the Imperium turns a blind eye to, due to corruption.

But...

it the amount smuggled starts to impinge on the trade within a subsector, the duke and megacorporations start losing money, then expect a swift investigation, the mobilisation of the IN, and lots of people going to prison planets or to meet their maker with no trials at all.
 
No , I think there will be limited smuggling that the Imperium turns a blind eye to, due to corruption.

But...

it the amount smuggled starts to impinge on the trade within a subsector, the duke and megacorporations start losing money, then expect a swift investigation, the mobilisation of the IN, and lots of people going to prison planets or to meet their maker with no trials at all.
How do they know how much money they are losing? The people who write the reports are the ones accepting the bribes.

In the US it is still easy to buy untaxed cigarettes even though it is illegal. Then again, it is illegal to buy/sell/traffic children, but that is done in the US as well, just ask Jeffery. So, maybe the corruption in the US is pretty much the same as in the 3I. No se.
 
The Mongooseverse Charted Space 1105 setting only has one real TL16 world inside the Imperium: Vincennes. There is another in the Hierate: Teahehwaih, though much of its production goes to placating its rivals. Beyond that, there are three others that don't really make the cut in my opinion. One is Darrian which can't make anything at that tech level, Pashus with 80,000 people and Research Station Zeta, a jump drive research station mentioned in Singularity, and Gannvair with 500 pop and a commune of engineers working on high tech computers and sensors. You'd need to move a decade in the future to find more.
And Sabmiqys, at TL-17 in Antares 2117. It is red-zoned, possibly (pure speculation here) because the original native organic populations all died out and left their (still thriving) system in the care of their true-conscious Artificial Intelligences.

It would make quite an interesting stop along the plotline of Singularity Act Two.
 
And Sabmiqys, at TL-17 in Antares 2117. It is red-zoned, possibly (pure speculation here) because the original native organic populations all died out and left their (still thriving) system in the care of their true-conscious Artificial Intelligence.
I always forget about them, but they don't tend to travel, so they are easy to ignore/forget.
 
I think you are massively inflating the amount of smuggled goods brought into the US, the current penalty for loading a boat and making a dash for it are pretty severe...
High tariffs will drive people to smuggling. Some on a professional level with a regular list of clients who place orders with them. So will high taxes aimed at discouraging things (smoking being a good example). Make the profit margin high enough and you even find customs agents letting things through for a cut. The U.S. has a big border and history shows you can't guard it all.
 
Anyone caught smuggling will face the death penalty. Any world government complicit will be replaced, any world that resists will be interdicted.
It is a capital crime in the Imperium, enough to get the death penalty or a lifetime on a prison planet. Whole world have been interdicted as a punishment for being complicit in trade irregularity, those interdictions can escalate. Even with no escalation the world will likely see an increase to their death rate.
The Imperium is not a western liberal democracy that grants a right to a fair trial - it carries out instant justice and wields the death penalty.

Well that was a bit Dark Imperium of you!

But there are no hordes of secret police, no mention of the Marines being regularly deployed to planets to put down insurrections and kill trade violators.

But the 3rd Imperium's penchant for violence is well known.
https://forum.mongoosepublishing.co...g-them-continuation-thread.125107/post-989264

Jump technology and the sheer size of a star system makes it nigh impossible to stop smuggling within the Imperium.

I know, especially since so many starports in the Imperium are class D, E, or X. Smugglers bring in products from other empires, land at some class E starport that's a patch of cleared land with a couple of quonset huts, sell whatever they want with no documentation, include fat services fees for any curious starport officials, and then the next batch of roguish merchants buy it from a warehouse on that world. Thus the origin of the goods is now "Imperial" with no tariffs attached.

I'm sure piracy is punishable by death in the Imperium, but that doesn't stop people from doing it.
 
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