What are we doing wrong

[topcatnz]

Hi
Recently I started building a Skinnie army to use against my Sons MI. Now we must be doing something wrong, the Skinnies keep blowing him apart, we have had three games and he gets murdered every time. Games rarely get to the second turn.
One situation game up today, he had 2 crew mounted weapons ontop of two of the rampart things that come in the box. First turn 1 unit of skinnie soldiers, and one unit of guard standing in a forest 12"-14" away, decimated him before he could fire.
It didnt seem right- the MI get no benefit really from the walls the +2 protection gets eliminated by constrictor cannon (only 2 in the skinnies),and that only seems to apply to armour saves. And if you get enough kill shots, he's dead as the MI don't have dodge. Seems to me it should be a bit harder to hit them in the first place. What are we doing wrong.
Thanks

 

[5.56 Surgeon]

I think they got a little carried away when they made the Skinnies. It will be adjusted in SST Evolutions so far as I know.
MI vs Skinnies is like MI vs Bugs. The MI get turned into mulch every time.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

Skinnies are too good. My second game was against them. I was wiped out in turn one (my forces were only a part (1k of 4k) MI invasion against skinnie's city) in turn 4 he had more then half of his forces and we were wiped out. Those shields of their are just too powerful :x . Doge against the nuke :? (1 only ). And wapons which kill everything (killshot steram weapons, many multihit weapons, almost every weapon with piercing 1 or 2 :? )
And worst of all they are ugly.

 

[Rob_A]

Try deploying your armies at least 24" apart. Maybe its just what your son has. Skinnie soldiers and guard are at the top of destroying infantry in my opinion.
Skinnies are only too powerful if you know how to use them. I do agree they need a few cuts here and there. But rather than making them less good, make them more expensive.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

If You don't know how to use an army it'll never be strong.
I think they should be more vulnerable to enemy attacks. When I played against them they seemd indestructible. The guy with CAP's in my team said it's beter to shoot them with holepunch then with Firecracker. And he was right.

You got to choose whether the army is tough or has nice weapons.Never both, it breaks the game balance.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Take a PL1 MI force, take lots of drop capsules and give everyone frag grenades and as many flamers as you can afford. (if you want to buy some Pl2 stuff, then give your LT the appropriate trait)
You are PL1, so take first turn.
Drop in on his hardest models in the second air phase. (he can't react when you land.. rulesmasters verified that). You might lose some to AA, but unlikely as the skinnies don't have much.
turn three... you go first and wipe most of his stuff of the board, one set of d10 frags from everyone, then lots of flamers.Other option is exo NCOS with the cap units.
Skinnies are hard, but MI can all jump and the drop pods are a must, focus on getting in close with lots of relatively cheap weapons, if you rely on javelins then the other unit members are doing nothing.
Pathfinders are also very good vs skinnies.
You can't make MI harder than skinnies, so just make sure you outnumber them.

If you lose an army in turn one, that's a placement issue.
e.g. only take defend tactics if you are player one.
If you are player two, take attack and keep you good stuff in reserve. Or take probe and keep the stuff you can't afford to lose back.
It's the most important aspect of the game IMHO, if you are player two and place all of your models on the board, you are going to lose a lot of stuff in turn one.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

My team had the first turn, i'd fired and jumped into a ruined building and then some 4 mery guys from ambush jumped (who gaved them 18" jump?) and with 1 shot killed more then halve of my forces (exo's) then second ambush revealed in front of rest of my forces and wiped me out and hitted hard the guy i was with

 

[DAWGIE]

:shock:

well, speaking as a plastic SKINNIE RAIDER, i must say that i see aboslutely nothing wrong with the way SKINNIES look!

compared with stumpy, HUMANS with their hugely (hugely ugly) facial features, multi-colored skin tones/eye-color, body hair, hand and feet with a weird five digits on each, i think you, sir, are all wet!




how any sensible being could posibly think the tall, slender build, dark gray green skin tone, black eyes, 5 ears, multiple sets of tusks, hands and feet with differing numbers of digits, of a typical SKINNIE, is unattractive, is beyond me!


SINCERELY,

ASTA ZANGASTA, SKINNIE RAIDER CAPTAIN . . .

 

[MaxSteiner]

Skinnies are massivly over powered? Damnit, I wish someone had said I might have actually bought some :lol:
Hmmm. I secound the drop pods thing, a squad of say five MI with drop pods flamers and Lasers make a very effective assasination squad (Not sure about skinnies but I tend to kill the brain bug on the turn they come in if the players stupid enough to leave him sitting there.

Another good tactic is the skinny advisor. Lets you hide the squad he's attached to for 100 points! Get a unit with him, hide them till the secound turn, then decemate ther army with air assets .

Sitting right at the table edge is a good bet to since the missle launchers have a range of 60 inches

Best of all though, Skinnies from what I've seen have no air defense other than an emplacement laser. Take two tac fighters, and a couple of missiles! Ok mabe thats over kill, but if they're killing all your stuff anyway why the hell not go full bore

Plasma munitions on remote detination are good too!

Best of all though I'd say is get some sprite skimmers! They make your officers so much better its unbelievable! Mongoose have been dragging heir feet, but theres plenty of models which can be subverted to the purpose! Mr Evils Sprites are an inspiration!
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10293&highlight=toys
And these from Warzone (Best Sci Fi setting ever in the history of mankind, unjustly killed by silly shoulder pads and wargaming Nazi's) are a steal at 10 Euros

 

[tjd95]

The quality of Skinnies also depends on the quality of the players. We had a guy down where I play that had his 1500 of Skinnies wiped out on turn 2.

 

[JoseDominguez]

My team had the first turn, i'd fired and jumped into a ruined building and then some 4 mery guys from ambush jumped (who gaved them 18" jump?) and with 1 shot killed more then halve of my forces (exo's) then second ambush revealed in front of rest of my forces and wiped me out and hitted hard the guy i was with

Avoid jumping exos in early against skinnies! It works vs bugs as you can see what he's got and ambushing warriors are no worries. But jumping into skinny turf early on will get you ripped to bits. Face it, he'll usually have ambushers, so don't go near him. Try taking a Pl 1 force and going defend. That way he wastes his ambush as you don't need to go at him. Put the exos in as NCOs in normal cap units. Place a couple of ammo dumps and get the grizzlies in next to them. And as people have mentioned, skinnies are no good vs air units, so nail his lasers early on and you are sorted.
Try saving the exos as reserves and dropping them on his hard units.
Other than that, take firestorms and pound him from range. Jump.. blast, fall back. Keep that up and he's in bits.

 

[Stratos]

MI vs Skinnies is like MI vs Bugs. The MI get turned into mulch every time.

I think this is an awful generalization. MI seem to win at least 50/50 against Bugs in Central Ohio. We haven't really had anyone play a full Skinnies army against anyone yet but when we were playtesting them they did seem overpowered (as everyone has mentioned). But on the Fifth some Skinnie Raiders will be joining my 3000-point Arachnids!

 

[impala]

Skinnies as an army can't be discussed without knowin what kind of army we're taling about... my Skinny force led by a Leader of Slaves is a numerous, melee-oriented army that relies on swarming across the board directly at the enemy. My Tyrant army is defensive, with lots of fortifications and the ability to hide a few units in ambush. My Lord army is abusive, just a few models but every one of them can jump 18" and adds the size of the target to their hit rolls, while spewing out several dice each per shot. These three forces can't be generalized in this discussion, so we really need to know what the Skinny force we're discussing is like before we know how to yak about it

 

[5.56 Surgeon]

MI vs Skinnies is like MI vs Bugs. The MI get turned into mulch every time.

I think this is an awful generalization. MI seem to win at least 50/50 against Bugs in Central Ohio. We haven't really had anyone play a full Skinnies army against anyone yet but when we were playtesting them they did seem overpowered (as everyone has mentioned). But on the Fifth some Skinnie Raiders will be joining my 3000-point Arachnids!

Not really. Right now the MI are 2-23 where I live. We have used different platoons, mixed platoons, different tactics, pulled rabbits out of our hats, but even if its a close one, we tend to still lose.

We have the models for 1500 points or more for every platoon but Pathfinders and its always the same. Brain Imp. Ruptures the heavy weapons, then the command staff, and thats the ball game.

 

[Stratos]

Brain Imp. Ruptures the heavy weapons, then the command staff, and thats the ball game.

Your Bug Player must be really good with the dice! My ruptures are 50/50 with both the Overseer and Brain.

 

[JoseDominguez]

What you need to do is: go attack, take a 75/25 force with the 75% being exos, pathfinders or marauders with drop pods. The 25 should be dirt cheap caps, with sniper rifles as heavy weapons. Go PL1 and take the trait that allows you to buy pl 2 options. If he has a brain, then you are guaranteed first turn (he must be at least PL2 to use them)
Deploy the caps and keep everything else reserve: it's numerical strength, not points, the caps will easilly be numerous enough to cover this. Ensure you don't have an LT, NCO or model worth more than a cap sergeant on the board.
Now he can't touch your command models. As soon as his brain shows itself, drop pod on top of it. You are player one, so you'll get to attack it first, don't worry about being in enemy territory, if you kill it, he's down to one action per unit next turn and you'll shred whatevr is left. It'll work a treat first time, next game he'll be less reliant on rupture as a means of taking out your command structure, he'll have to plan to compensate for drop pods, that brings the game back into balance.

 

[topcatnz]

Thanks team
the army consisted of General plus elite guard (6 figures), 2* Guard units (7 skinnies each), 1 unit of 10 soldiers, and a 14 skinnie raider unit.
1 Guard unit, and the elite guard took no part in the battle. The other guard unit, and the soldiers killed the rampart defenders, and the raiders killed the roughnecks.

Other than the massive decimation caused by the skinnies neither of us were happy with the rampart. As we read it combat goes something like this
I fire at the defenders (2*constrictor cannon,8 Constrictor rifles, 5 Boneshard Rifles).
1st off I throw to hit, I get some kill shots, no MI have dodge, so they all die.
Then the remainder get +2 armour save (negated in whole or part by penetration), they die.

But the ramparts have provided no cover except for the armour save roll, whats the use of the ramparts!

Nothing seems to modify the 'to hit' roll, its as easy to get a kill shot against somebody in cover as it is if they were standing in the open, and that just doesnt seem right.
Are we doing something wrong. I believe the 'to hit' roll should be modified by
a) distance
b) cover

At least thats what normally happens in wargames I normally play. However i must confess American Civil War, Colonial Wars (earth 1830-1910), and Renaissance Warfare- dont really compare to SST, but I always thought somethings were pretty common to battlefields.

Tony
PS I am amazed at how fast you guys respond!

 

[JoseDominguez]

you are correct, but the updated rules will mean fortification alters the to hit roll, so it's been fixed

 

[Voracioustigger]

Plain and simple...

Arachnids rules the tunnels

MI rule the skies

Skinnies rule the ground


Skinnies make Air units a lot more important, and you will find if you use air units against skinnies more frequently, then you should have a lot more success.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

So Rock, Paper, Scissors eh? I don't see much fun here. Imo the armies should be balanced (of cours some may be better on some fields but don't change it to this old game)