Vree Tactics?

Barghest

Mongoose
A friend of mine bought Vree when we started ACTA a few months ago. He is not certain that he is happy with the Vree.

Are there any suggestions out there for Vree tactics that I might relay? we've noticed that they are not toe to toe fighters. I'm betting that swarms of little ships is the way to go. We're playing Battle priority games these days and just taking 5 FAPs.

How are their Tzymm fighters? Should he be looking for more carriers to get them into battle? I noticed that those fighters are really well-armed and they can sit outside of Anti-fighter range and still shoot.

How do Vree players normally win?

Thanks.
 
Agility is the Vree's ticket to success. Play the arcs, move sideways or even backwards if you need to do get out of range or arc of the enemy, while maintaining your own range. You have Turret arcs so use them.

Tzymms are great attack fighters and still decent in dogfights. Use them whenever possible. Zorths are also good dogfighters so take them when the enemy is strong in fighters of his own.
 
Okay. For most ships, the heavy weapons are fore or aft, right? He'll run into some nasty capital ships with heavy weapons on the side arcs, though. I suppose that putting all power to engines and flying straight by his opponent then shooting from the side or rear arc without changing facing will work for him. Sheer numbers will help. Maybe in a 5 point Battle scenario he should be looking for more than 10 ships. Overwhelm the opposition with too many targets and try to concentrate his own fire as much as possible.

So far he has had to fight me mostly. I have Minbari. He's going to need more scouts, I think.
 
A lot of your best ships are at low level but the Vree have nice choices at raid, battle and war. Don't neglect them in favour of swarming. Swarming is cheesy and wrong.
 
The Vree are my favorite fleet by far. That said, most of the weaknesses of this fleet are also offset by using a swarm.

They have no clear-cut defenses like stealth, interceptors or shields (baring the Xarr and scouts of course). Likewise they have few advantages like a high hull or lots of damage/crew points. This makes the entire fleet look like a bunch of glass hammers. So, in order to make up for their obvious weaknesses, it is easy to swarm the enemy.

Now all that said, let us look at the hulls that I tend to rely on:


---The Best of the Vree---

Tzymm: this is a GREAT fighter. Just don't expect them to survive many dogfights.

Xarr: Oh Boy! This is THE strongest ship in the fleet. Although I think that the 2 for 1 patrol ships are better, this little guy will do quite a bit of damage for their simple Patrol designation. Also, this is one of your few hulls with something better than a 4!

Xixx: This is one of the few long range weapons out there so take at least one or 2. Unfortunately, they are very fragile, so don't expect them to do anything after they do their big volley.

Vaarl: This, IMO, is one of the best scouts out there! A good Stealth, a wicket weapon, +1 to scouting rolls (due to the Vree crew), in a Skirmish level vessel! One thing though, if the enemy is close enough for you to use your weapon, you are probably dead as this thing has about the same amount of Damage and Crew as some Patrol boats.

Xeel: This thing puts out some NASTY firepower and has access to 4 of our great fighter/bombers. What is NOT to like about it? Well, the hull 4 and average damage and crew are slightly holding it back. Also, if it only had Carrier 2 (hey, even a Carrier 1 would make this my favorite ship), then you could rest easily in offloading the fighters before it was blown to kingdom come. As shown in other threads, when taken in mass, this thing is to be feared for sure! Now the bad side: when the new book comes out, you can expect a solid loss in firepower. I'll still take it, only not as often.


---The Good---

Xill: Although I would obviously prefer 4 Xarr over a Xill, this thing has some decent guns. I find them to be a solid choice, and a great way to buy down when playing War and Battle level games, but I don't worry if I loose a Xill or 2 when playing a game (I can usually pull it out even when they die).

Xaak: I prefer the firepower and high hull over the Xill, it still only has a Raid level of damage and crew; making it VERY fragile. I guess if you want the command bonus, take it. Honestly, when I first saw this thing, I took it every time over the Xill, then I learned the trouble of that dreaded 4-6 critical and swore them off for good.

Xonn: Alright! So you loose 1 speed for 1 more hull (and damage and crew). You also get lots of extra dice. What's not to like about this thing... Well, it IS a little slow and it has no long range guns (unless you think that 15" is long range).

T'Zakk: I love this ship. That said, it tries to do too much for it to be a great ship (sorta like a War version of the Minbari's Neroon). If ONLY it had more damage and crew. IF ONLY it had another system of torpedoes (even if that means that each volley lost 1-2 AD). If ONLY it had more Tzymm and a carrier trait. As it stands, I think that it lacks a little oomph in one of those directions to make it a "great" ship.

Zorth: I have to say, this single fighter type is awesome! On it's own, you will not fear much from enemy fighters. Unfortunately, with all the good Anti-fighter traits in this particular fleet, you don't NEED this type of fighter unless going up against lots of range 3-4 fighter/ bombers. I tend to take a few of these guys so that I can tie up anyone who tries to take on the Tzymms. That said, you don't need them for every game.

---The not quite so Good---

Ximm: As a patrol level escort, this is sorta cool. Unfortunately, it is very fragile and you can do better with Zorths when taking on enemy fighters.

Vaarka: This would be a great ship except for the lowered stealth. Stick with the Vaarl, as the extra stealth is sorely needed.

Xirr and Xorr: This ship is just too fragile to take on much of anything. Stick with the Xixx if you insist on taking this model.

Overall, this is a great fleet for the League, but some races will chew you up:

Narn and Gaim: the abundance of E-mines will shatter your fighter swarms and crush most of you hull 4 ships (the majority of the fleet). Also, the Xarr, even though it has dodge and hull 5, will die quickly to double damage and triple damage E-mines.

Centauri: Swarms of Demos and Vorchans will crush most of your ships. With an Interceptors, and the ability to share them with other ships, you will be hurting for those early rounds of hurting the enemy with your torpedoes. Worse still they can out-range you and have the perfect weapons to lay waste to hull 4 ships (and double damage to boot). Your best bet is to "all power" past the front arc and hope that you survive the initial volley of firepower. Even then, it will be hard won.

There are some toughies, but the above 3 feel like you are fighting a serious, up-hill battle.
 
The Vree Fleet:
Tyzmm: Good long range firepower, but easily taken out with
fighters or ships weapons.
All hull 4 Vree ships: the weakness of the hull 4 ships cannot be
underestiminated, plenty of fleets with E-mines, DD and
TD weapons, AP and SAP means that you will be hit hard
and often. The overall lack of hull points in the Vree
hull 4 ships means that they do not last long once the
enemy decides to deal with them. The Xorr and the Xixx
are your best bets, as they can Close Blast Doors and
fire. Against any fleet that has interceptors the Vree
have a very hard time.
Xill and Zaak: I prefer the Zaak as it has dual torpedo turrets
and can fire one each turn.
Zorth: Good fighter, suffers from lack of 'fleet carrier'. You must
win init. to make the fighter truly effective.
Xaar: The only real bright spot in the Vree list, beware of those that
whine constantly about the 'swarm fleet'.
Supermaneuverable: Highly overrated, only useful against an
inexperienced player who is willing to try to 'dogfight'
(I.E. try to turn) with the Vree. Most other fleets outrange
the Vree guns and remain at range long enough to
near cripple before closing. Centauri simply close with
the Vorchan/Demos and blow away or cripply any hull 4
ship you have on the field.
 
Bear in mind, oh OP, that the Xaak patrol boat and Xeel carrier are considered broken and are getting fixed in Powers and Princilpalities. The poster two above me makes valid points but advocates relying on two of these broken hulls. Be sporting and use them sparingly or not at all until they're fixed.
 
Lord David the Denied said:
Bear in mind, oh OP, that the Xaak patrol boat and Xeel carrier are considered broken and are getting fixed in Powers and Princilpalities. The poster two above me makes valid points but advocates relying on two of these broken hulls. Be sporting and use them sparingly or not at all until they're fixed.
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Just great, an already weak fleet is being made even weaker!
That should make all the Vree winers happy.
 
I'm sorry, did I just hear somebody claim that the Vree are weak? ;)

It's a claim that comes around every so often then virtually every experienced player comes along and says that actually the Vree are plenty good enough (even with the Xaar and Xeel toned down to the "good" category as opposed to a total nerf). The keys you need to bear in mind are:

1) Terrain is your friend, use it. If you have saucers that are reloading/repairing crits/fleeing, hide for a turn. If the enemy is long-ranged, hide until they come closer. If the enemy are short ranged, dance around the terrain and stay out of range/sight. This doesn't mean to say that if there isn't any terrain then you've lost...

2) Use your firing arcs carefully. Every ship in your fleet is turreted and most enemy fleets are nowhere near as agile (and if they are then this is part of the cost of their ships). Use your speed and supermanoeuvrability to stay out of arc/range of your enemy, or at least keep your fleet in a single enemy arc whilst returning fire. You can easily shoot past the enemy fleet (taking casualties as you fly by) but it's worth it to reduce the incoming flak and sit in their aft/side arcs, pouring turreted fire back.

3) Never fight at long or short range. 10-15" is your fleet's optimal range, with a few ships giving 25" support (yes you can base your fleet on bombardment but this is a slightly different tactic). Try to evade and duck within your opponent's long-ranged guns to minimise this advantage and stay outside of the majority of the enemy 8-10" guns as you have the manoeuvrability to prevent getting clobbered by secondaries. Centauri are a fleet this can be a little bit of an issue against but you can rely on evading arcs and picking off initiative sinks instead.

4) Mix up your PLs. As mentioned, aside from the Xaar and Xeel, some of your best ships are at battle and war PLs so take them. However, you will always need a number of initiative sinks to back them up and your scouts, xaars and xorrs/variants work perfectly for this task. This advice is not too different than for most fleets but in this case the Vree have a few gems of ships at the higher PLs and it would be a shame not to take them.
 
Am sorry? What?

At psychocon 2008 I used Vree for the first time in a 5 minute notice basis and I won... Vs Centauri

Hardly a weak fleet in my opinion.

But hey if you want to sell me some Vree feel free to drop me a message :wink:
 
i think centauri are the vrees hardest opponent as centauri tend to have interceptors available plus higher hulls and more damage all with around the same or similar weapons.
admittedly the vree arc is better if they get behind the centauri but they are fairly slow so against an experienced centauri player shouldnt manage this too much.
 
katadder said:
i think centauri are the vrees hardest opponent as centauri tend to have interceptors available plus higher hulls and more damage all with around the same or similar weapons.
admittedly the vree arc is better if they get behind the centauri but they are fairly slow so against an experienced centauri player shouldnt manage this too much.

I would say that Crusade would be a little tougher then Centauri, but the Fanheads will definitely give Vree problems.
 
eldiablito said:
Likewise they have few advantages like a high hull or lots of damage/crew points.

I think having the highest damage output in the game is an advantage (Vorlons/Shadows may have higher potential output).
 
crusade are harder to kill with vree but they also lack the AP/SAP and TL DD weapons of the centauri. this is what rapes vree quite badly as beams dont mean much to all their skirmish ships.
 
katadder said:
crusade are harder to kill with vree but they also lack the AP/SAP and TL DD weapons of the centauri. this is what rapes vree quite badly as beams dont mean much to all their skirmish ships.

True
 
Ion cannons seem pretty much made for gutting hull 4/5 ships. Attacking in two waves, or using the long range balistic torpedo ships (can't remember the name) as support, makes it less profitable for the vree to get behind your ships.

As for the vree being weak. One of the strongest players in our group uses them (and not in a swarmy way either) to great success. I have yet to beat him with my EA. I've only ever beaten them with my fanheads.
 
katadder said:
lol vree are far from weak. they just take differant using to other fleets.[/quote
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The Vree can win, they just need to play someone who has not yet
played enough to figure out how to win against them.
Hot dice also doesn't hurt.
 
Banichi said:
Ion cannons seem pretty much made for gutting hull 4/5 ships. Attacking in two waves, or using the long range balistic torpedo ships (can't remember the name) as support, makes it less profitable for the vree to get behind your ships.

As for the vree being weak. One of the strongest players in our group uses them (and not in a swarmy way either) to great success. I have yet to beat him with my EA. I've only ever beaten them with my fanheads.
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A general fleet list of the Vree would be interesting, could you post
what you remember and the game size.
Which EA fleet do you play?
 
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