Vree & Supermaneuverability...

[jjdodger]

When the Vree are crippled, what happens to their "SM"? Is it

A) a trait that they can loose
B) they automatically loose it,
C) if they only move 1/2 their movement, get two 2 turns at 45 degrees?

if its "C", then, how does it work? 1/2 of THAT movement straight, then a turn, and another inch to the 2nd turn?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[High Sierra]

i would imagine C.

since the SM ability at half speed is something thats 'built in' to the ship design.

kind of like you've impaired its speed but not its ability to turn.

or i could be wrong.

 

[Burger]

I'd agree C. If they move at half their modified speed, they get 2/45.

 

[Spideredd]

I cant think of any reason for it not to be C.
It's not a trait so you don't need to roll for it.

Will it be worth it though?
you'l only be moving 2-3" in order to use it, and the Vree aint agile, despite being saucers, so you would find it hard to use that second turn any ways.

 

[Burger]

that is very true, the fastest Vree ship is 12. Down to 6 because of crippled. So you'd have to move 3" or less in total to use your 2/45 turns, meaning 1.5" straight ahead, turn, then... you don't have 2" left to use your 2nd turn...

 

[Locutus9956]

Actually it specifically states in 2nd Ed that super maneuverable ships turn characteristics become 2/45 when crippled so Id say that a Vree ship moving half speed when crippled loses the SM and can only do 2/45. Seems pretty clearcut. for SM, read 2/45 when crippled.

 

[Burger]

for SM, read 2/45 when crippled.

Yep, thats what we've figured too But it's not possible to use your second turn of the 2/45 because you still have to do no more than half of your already-halved speed to use it! Speed 12 reduced to 6, so you must only move 3" in total to be able to use 2/45. 1.5" obligatory movement then first turn, only leaves 1.5" movement left, which is not enough to use another turn.

 

[Locutus9956]

True, true but thats what you get for being crippled I guess

 

[jjdodger]

Thanks for the responses. "C" was what i thought too, but, the rules say "Super Manoeuvrability: Vree ships are incredibly agile. All Vree ships may move less than half their Speed if this wish. If they do
so, they may also move as if they had the Super Manoeuvrable trait."
Basically, is "as if they had" the same as "have the trait of", and thus making it something that they can loose?

 

[Locutus9956]

In all honesty I think its a 1st ed to 2nd ed crossover problem. The Vree maneuvering rules are basically copied straight from their 1st ed version but the SM downgrade to 2/45 when crippled thing is a new rule for 2nd Edtion. On the other hand it would be an interesting differentiation to make Vree a bit more different from Shadows if they could still effectively supermanuever, albeit really slowly, when crippled

 

[Spideredd]

Thanks for the responses. "C" was what i thought too, but, the rules say "Super Manoeuvrability: Vree ships are incredibly agile. All Vree ships may move less than half their Speed if this wish. If they do
so, they may also move as if they had the Super Manoeuvrable trait."
Basically, is "as if they had" the same as "have the trait of", and thus making it something that they can loose?

No, you can't lose it
But when you become crippled you lose 1 turn and that drops to 45, effectivly dropping your ships to 1/45 with regards to turns. UNLESS
you are super manoeuvrable, in which case, the number of turns that you can make are dropped to 2/45.

Assuming that the vree make use of the normal super manoeuvrability rules with regards to becoming crippled, it is not worth the loss if speed, as you cannot use that second turn (maximum speed of 3").

does this help any?

 

[High Sierra]

Thanks for the responses. "C" was what i thought too, but, the rules say "Super Manoeuvrability: Vree ships are incredibly agile. All Vree ships may move less than half their Speed if this wish. If they do
so, they may also move as if they had the Super Manoeuvrable trait."
Basically, is "as if they had" the same as "have the trait of", and thus making it something that they can loose?

No, you can't lose it
But when you become crippled you lose 1 turn and that drops to 45, effectivly dropping your ships to 1/45 with regards to turns. UNLESS
you are super manoeuvrable, in which case, the number of turns that you can make are dropped to 2/45.

Assuming that the vree make use of the normal super manoeuvrability rules with regards to becoming crippled, it is not worth the loss if speed, as you cannot use that second turn (maximum speed of 3").

does this help any?

why yes!
I am now completely confused!


tbh i think im just going to use common sense when interpreting this rule.

i.e. I'm crippled so I'm not as maneouverable as I was.

 

[Burger]

Essentially, Vree become 1/45 when crippled, just like everyone else. Their SM special rule doesn't help them any because they can't use it.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Its not that much of a problem though is it. Considering vree weaponary is mostly turreted. I can see if you want to get off the table but other than that its not much of a problem.

 

[jjdodger]

Where it becomes an issue is in "close quarters", ie, a Vree ship is in the front arc of an enemy ship, near one side of the arc, but facing to the other side of the arc. With SM, even though crippled, it could move to the ships side arc, by moving "backwards". without SM, it cant, because it has to move "forward, and then turn".

 

[Spideredd]

wouldn't it be better to apply all power to engines if you are really that close?

 

[Locutus9956]

If your not skeleton crewed, maybe. If you are then no special actions (and I cant remember the last time I saw a Vree ship crippled and NOT skeleton Crewed) (their dmg and crew scores are usually very similar). Also APTE isnt always worth it, if the ships going to die anyway it might as well try to Concentrate firepower and go out in a blaze of glory

 

[Burger]

Also APTE isnt always worth it, if the ships going to die anyway it might as well try to Concentrate firepower and go out in a blaze of glory

Call that a blaze of glory?
RAMMING SPEED!

 

[Sulfurdown]

Yes, I too am getting really confused by this. Why are we going down to 1.5" or 3" for an originally 12" speed? Is that because you're overlaying both effects of Crippled?

Once the ship is crippled and moving at 1/2 spd, 1/45; are you dropping that in half to apply SM and then applying the SM-Crippled effects to further drop the speed? Technically if you removed the SM you can't go under half speed without a S/A, right? So either it would be that the crippled 12" would be SM at 3" or it simply can't operate as SM while crippled since if it tries it loses the quality and then must be under All Stop to not have to move 1/2 - 1 speed.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Call that a blaze of glory?
RAMMING SPEED!

Now thats what im talking about, Give me ramming speed.