This may have been discussed before, but my search-fu is weak. I loves my Vorlons, have since day one and all the revisions, but I have an issue: why can't I concentrate fire? I only have one weapon on all but one ship. I'm playing one of the most advanced races to grace the game. But I can't seem to make the decision to put a stomping on one target and just fold my fire into it till it pops. Can anyone tell me why? (And please, no 'balance' comments, I had a Victory pumping shots into me, concentrated, for 3 turns. it's only one weapon.)
Vorlon special actions
- Thread starter Warjammy
- Start date
LordClammy
Mongoose
in all fairness, I concentrated turn one, then you knocked out my special actions, then my damage control. and you kicked my ISAss. your guns have several dice and are triple damage. I dont think you would have needed concentrate, seeing as I had one ship left at the end, and he jumped in to hyper.
sidewinder
Mongoose
I dont like not being able to concentrate either. A Scout would be nice for the vorlons, at least give them a chance to reroll and get another +1 to stealth rolls, hell the shadows get one.
Although you may not want to hear the answer - it is for reasons of game balance. The Vorlons are fairly equal to most other fleets but on top of this is that they can't suffer the effects from critical hits. To counter this, they are limited to movement-related special actions.Warjammy said:
Sorry
The fact that you can't CAF is very annoying. It's very annoying because you have to rely on AP beams up to War level - and AP beams really aren't all that great without some form of reroll attached to them (hull 6, and even hull 5 - which dominate every other fleet from Raid upwards, can prove real pigs to beat).
What's more annoying is that ships with Gravitic drives can't all stop and pivot (we see a Vorlon transport doing it in the show!) and that their ships, which ostensibly may or may not have a crew, still have a CQ score, and still have to roll to attempt the few special actions they are allowed to make.
What's more annoying is that ships with Gravitic drives can't all stop and pivot (we see a Vorlon transport doing it in the show!) and that their ships, which ostensibly may or may not have a crew, still have a CQ score, and still have to roll to attempt the few special actions they are allowed to make.
The fact that you can't CAF is very annoying. It's very annoying because you have to rely on AP beams up to War level - and AP beams really aren't all that great without some form of reroll attached to them (hull 6, and even hull 5 - which dominate every other fleet from Raid upwards, can prove real pigs to beat).
What's more annoying is that ships with Gravitic drives can't all stop and pivot (we see a Vorlon transport doing it in the show!) and that their ships, which ostensibly may or may not have a crew, still have a CQ score, and still have to roll to attempt the few special actions they are allowed to make.
What's more annoying is that ships with Gravitic drives can't all stop and pivot (we see a Vorlon transport doing it in the show!) and that their ships, which ostensibly may or may not have a crew, still have a CQ score, and still have to roll to attempt the few special actions they are allowed to make.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Right now:
Ive played both as and against Vorlons at varying PLs with varying opponents.
Simply put with the exception of shadows who can run rings round em, giving them CAF with the same stats would flat out break them. They can pretty much equal or exceed most other races firepower as it is even without CAF and they are insanely tough now.
I'm actually not at all sure they are 'one of the most balanced races in the game', they are if anything one of the stronger races by a good chunk (and the VHC is verging on being a bit TOO good imho (though if the other armagageddon level ships , Victory and Adira aside possibly, were up to par then this might not seem to be the case).
I would actually prefer it if they could CAF, but if you want that you would have to drop the AD on their weapons a bit to compensate or they would simply not be fair.
Ive played both as and against Vorlons at varying PLs with varying opponents.
Simply put with the exception of shadows who can run rings round em, giving them CAF with the same stats would flat out break them. They can pretty much equal or exceed most other races firepower as it is even without CAF and they are insanely tough now.
I'm actually not at all sure they are 'one of the most balanced races in the game', they are if anything one of the stronger races by a good chunk (and the VHC is verging on being a bit TOO good imho (though if the other armagageddon level ships , Victory and Adira aside possibly, were up to par then this might not seem to be the case).
I would actually prefer it if they could CAF, but if you want that you would have to drop the AD on their weapons a bit to compensate or they would simply not be fair.
A simpler option by far would be to give the Vorlon Transport twin-linked Discharge Guns. As it is atm, I'd say it's the lemon of the Vorlon fleet - far too short ranged, without the real speed to make it up, and without significant AD. Other alternative is that you bump it up to 18" range like the rest of the fleet (it suffers from the same problem as the Torotha's fusion guns).
Also, I think all stop and pivot! should be added to the repertoire (shadows, too - since you can't all stop and use SM) and that all their CQs should be bumped up higher to represent the fact that they're slavishly loyal biological constructs, (or indeed make them automatically pass CQ checks).
Also, I think all stop and pivot! should be added to the repertoire (shadows, too - since you can't all stop and use SM) and that all their CQs should be bumped up higher to represent the fact that they're slavishly loyal biological constructs, (or indeed make them automatically pass CQ checks).
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Well Im not sure about the transport, personally I think the entire fleet as it is, is pretty good, however I do agree completely about All Stop and Pivot. I previously had always allowed Vorlons to do it pre-armageddon as I hadnt actually realised they werent allowed it (incidentally are we SURE theyre not allowed to do it? Bear in mind you cant fire while doing it anyway so it doesnt let them spin around firing anyway and I can see no reason the vorlons should be LESS maneuverable than narns, and old EA ships!)
Well, AS&P! appeared in SFOS - and in SFOS it listed the special actions which Vorlons and Shadows could use - AS&P! was not on that list. I don't think the list is repeated or updated in Arma.
The only SAs which they can use (IIRC) are Come About! All Stop!, All Power to Engines! and that's it (possibly also Give Me Ramming Speed!).
Also, I thought you could fire when you pivot? It's not so handy for stopping and firing anyways - much handier for turning on a dime to capitalise on something the following turn.
Arguably giving them an auto-passed come about would be just as good, the tradeoff being that it stops their Charged Energy Pulse from working and so opens them up to fighter attack.
The only SAs which they can use (IIRC) are Come About! All Stop!, All Power to Engines! and that's it (possibly also Give Me Ramming Speed!).
Also, I thought you could fire when you pivot? It's not so handy for stopping and firing anyways - much handier for turning on a dime to capitalise on something the following turn.
Arguably giving them an auto-passed come about would be just as good, the tradeoff being that it stops their Charged Energy Pulse from working and so opens them up to fighter attack.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Id be fine with that. And nope you specifically cannot fire if you use AS&P. Persoanally I think this sucks as it renders that special action rather less than useful....
Frankly Id only ever use it tio stop a ship going off the table in an emergency. Add that to the list of 'Locutus' minor niggles that should be changed in V2'' (should be able to fire when you AS&P)
Frankly Id only ever use it tio stop a ship going off the table in an emergency. Add that to the list of 'Locutus' minor niggles that should be changed in V2'' (should be able to fire when you AS&P)
Burger -
So, you'd say that their Raid level ship should have what, 2 or 3 AD of AD, Precise, B, DD? in one arc, at 12 inch range? Or that their battle level ship should only have 5 AD of the same?
Minbari get SAP, DD, Precise beams with almost as many AP as that, backed up with stealth, higher speed, multiple turns and minibeams all round - which they can CAF (when they aren't twin linked).
Frankly reducing the already low 6AD single weapon on the war level LC to 4 would be ridiculous. The TD beams are arguably the best in the game (although the LC's are seriously stinted by their range limit - 20 inches on a War level ship!) but pretty much every other war level ship in the game exceeds their firepower with multiple weapon systems, multiple arcs etc - all of which they can CAF.
So, you'd say that their Raid level ship should have what, 2 or 3 AD of AD, Precise, B, DD? in one arc, at 12 inch range? Or that their battle level ship should only have 5 AD of the same?
Minbari get SAP, DD, Precise beams with almost as many AP as that, backed up with stealth, higher speed, multiple turns and minibeams all round - which they can CAF (when they aren't twin linked).
Frankly reducing the already low 6AD single weapon on the war level LC to 4 would be ridiculous. The TD beams are arguably the best in the game (although the LC's are seriously stinted by their range limit - 20 inches on a War level ship!) but pretty much every other war level ship in the game exceeds their firepower with multiple weapon systems, multiple arcs etc - all of which they can CAF.
What I am saying is that Vorlons are pretty well balanced ATM. If you want to upgrade them by allowing them to CAF, you have to downgrade something to compensate. 1/3 less AD seems roughly fair to me.
And AS&P should not be able to fire,. that means large ships such as Bin'Tak, Victory, Sharkaan, Adira, VHC can just sit at the back of the table sniping! As a Drazi player I'd love to be able to fire when doing AS&P... but it would be too good. It would mean there is no such thing as "out-manouvering". White Stars would be pointless.
And AS&P should not be able to fire,. that means large ships such as Bin'Tak, Victory, Sharkaan, Adira, VHC can just sit at the back of the table sniping! As a Drazi player I'd love to be able to fire when doing AS&P... but it would be too good. It would mean there is no such thing as "out-manouvering". White Stars would be pointless.
You could always buy an evolved priority and pray to the dice gods that you roll a 6 for Agent of Order. A friend got that on a ****ing heavy cruiser over christmas and as a result it blew a Ka'Bin'Tak class superdreadnought to itty bitty pieces in one volley.....
But yes, the vorlon fleet is a bit lacking - no scout and no carrier (how do vorlon fighters get to the battlefield? I could understand shadows not using carriers...)
Reaverman said:Its interesting that the Shadows get scouts, yet Vorlons dont
Tell you what, you give me adaptive armour and you can have the scout, sound fair?
The Shadow list has far less choice than the Vorlon list but you're right, it does seem fairer if the Vorlons had a scout as well.
Course I could use a Shadow option at Battle too, a variant of the scout perhaps?
And auxiliary fighters - but then there's no precedent for them in the series.
WRT weapon balance - I think the Vorlons actually get heavily jilted on their main guns at Raid and Battle level. Yes, they get way more dice than other races, but AP, Beam, Precise, DD 4AD (or even 8), no rerolls doesn't really compare to SAP, Beam, DD or SAP, Beam DD Precise 2-4 AD with rerolls, backed up with secondary armament and often fighters to boot.
Non - TLAP weapons really aren't very good at all when you consider hull 6 and 5 ships are so numerous.
WRT weapon balance - I think the Vorlons actually get heavily jilted on their main guns at Raid and Battle level. Yes, they get way more dice than other races, but AP, Beam, Precise, DD 4AD (or even 8), no rerolls doesn't really compare to SAP, Beam, DD or SAP, Beam DD Precise 2-4 AD with rerolls, backed up with secondary armament and often fighters to boot.
Non - TLAP weapons really aren't very good at all when you consider hull 6 and 5 ships are so numerous.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
The point though you are missing alexb, is that the Vorlon fleet is not about raw firepower, its about surviveability. The Vorlon fleet WILL be outgunned by most other fleets at the moment, but they take no crits, take half damage from all incoming fire, can regenerate loads of that damage every turn... Have you ever tried to actually kill Vorlon LC or HC? Its quite a daunting task!
