Vorlon special actions

[Hash]

Alexb83, there are two reasons why the VHC with Hull 6 is way sicker than a Victory,

a) VHC doesn't take crits. Makes a HUGE difference (see our playtest of the Ancients for how crits can effectively shut them down).

b) VHC regenerates 4d6 damage per round

If you don't believe me playtest - we did! (although admittedly with a VLC)

 

[Reaverman]

b) VHC regenerates 4d6 damage per round

No it does not, its 5d6...........derrrrrr

 

[Hash]

Yeah whatever squidboy

 

[LordClinto]

The only SAs which they can use (IIRC) are Come About! All Stop!, All Power to Engines! and that's it (possibly also Give Me Ramming Speed!).

I didn't think Vorlons or Shadows could use Give Me Ramming Speed because they can't truely be crippled?

 

[Burger]

I didn't think Vorlons or Shadows could use Give Me Ramming Speed because they can't truely be crippled?

Correct. Ramming Speed requires being crippled, which Shadows/Vorlons can't be.

 

[Triggy]

But then, Victory doesn't take 1-6 (or indeed 2-12 damage from precise) weapons, rather it takes 0-1, and it is hull 6.

Even without the "no criticals" aspect to Vorlons, they are tougher (after Adaptive Armour and the d6 roll) than virtually any equivalent ship out there, then they have Self Repair on top! That's why their guns are relatively toned down compared to other fleets. It's also why high PL Vorlon ships tend to do so well at low PLs - once they've killed a few enemies, there is less incoming fire each turn until you reach a point when all damage suffered each turn can be repaired. That's why it's absolutely critical to nail the big guys before they survive too long.

As for the Transports being the weak link - survival wise maybe a little but the initiative sink aspect is critical when trying to get your big guns in place and the difference between most of the ships in the fleet is minimal in terms of value.

 

[Methos5000]

Plus I read in one of the Signs and Portents that the VHC has an effective damage rating of 171 if it took damage like normal ships. Thats 29 less then the effective damage of the Victory with its Adaptive Armor and VHC has the 5D6 Self-Repair to compensate. Not to mention at the VHC's effective range (20" for both guns) it can do alot more damage to the Victory, than the Victory can do to it. Well...unless the Victory wants to risk the Lightning Cannon but that dangerous to use against most races, against the Vorlons is pure suicide.

 

[Burger]

The Victory does less damage using its Lightning Cannon than firing all its other weapons instead for 2 turns.

 

[Warjammy]

Wow. I set off a bomb. To Clammy: I wasn't whining about our game specificaly, I did mention your Victory, only as an example of another large ship with heavy weapons being able to concentrate. I realise that damage capacity is a BIG factor in the balance issue, and the Victory lightning cannon gets 2 extra AD and can concentrate, but shuts you down dead for a turn. We had a well fought game, but it happened to be the 3rd or 4th in a row where my early turns were spent firing one weapon at one ship, and missing with more than half of my opening dice. You know I can't follow up those beam shots either, resulting in a few ships only scratching the surface. Against White Stars, any hits help and hurt. But when I play EA or League, I'd give my left tentacle to reroll those first dice against some of those ships, especially in the turns where I can before I have to spend my SA's turning around.

 

[shadowbloodmoon]

Not to start another tangent, but if only someone would convert the rest of AoG's Wars of the Ancients (hint hint), then the Vorlons would have all the carrier lovin' they need and the Shadows would have the Primordial Dreadnought.... with 2(!) Heavy Molecular Slicer Beams... I smells another priority level...

 

[Methos5000]

Well yes the Victory will do more in 2 turns of firing all its weapons than just using the Lightning Cannon. I meant to refer to a single round of damage at 20" (optimum range for both Vorlon Weapons) even then im not sure it would outdamage the VHC. What does it have 8AD of B,TD,Precise, SAP and another 10AD of AP, B, DD, Precise? I guess it would be close in damage out for both IF the Victory used the Lightning cannon for one round of combat but since the Victory would be a sitting duck the next turn I cant think of any reason to use it...unless your several turns into combat and have the VHC beaten down quite a bit and are trying for a killing blow. Even then thats risky.

 

[Alexb83]

You'd need to be within 18 inches to fire both the VHC's guns. So you have 10 AD of the Discharge gun and 8 AD of lightning cannon. The Victory at the same range would have 6 AD of Neutron lasers, and 10AD of Fusion cannons.

It'd want to get into 12 inches, though - 20AD of straight twin-linked against a Vorlon or Shadow is nothing to sniff at, especially not in a turreted arc if it had the chance to get past the Vorlon.

 

[Burger]

IF the Victory used the Lightning cannon for one round of combat but since the Victory would be a sitting duck the next turn I cant think of any reason to use it...unless your several turns into combat and have the VHC beaten down quite a bit and are trying for a killing blow. Even then thats risky.

Or, the Victory only has 1 point of damage left... and yes that has happened to me before We're gonna die! Quick fire the lightning cannon!!!

 

[Methos5000]

Ah okay I didnt have the stats infront of me I thought the Discharge Gun was 20" on the Heavy Cruiser. I guess this battle would come down to what Criticals the Victory gets hit with. Nothing sucks worse then having your shiny new Victory roll onto the battlefield and get nailed with a no weapons crit before it even gets to fire and then gets hit with a no damage control vital critical. Not to mention a 6-6 critical would do far more to the victory then the D6+6 would do to the Vorlon ship.

Maybe the Shadows and Vorlons could take damage like the other ancients do, but instead of auto-repairing crits at the end of the turn, they can attempt to repair crits at the end of the turn they are received. Probably doesnt balance out to well but it would make some fights more interesting.

 

[Warjammy]

What my issues have come down to: facing sometime 2 to 3 times as many ships as I field, which I will grant you are not as survivable as mine, but each has 2,3, sometimes 4 times or more, the amount of weapons I'm firing. So now, I have lets say 8 weapons firing. Dice hate me in ways you will never understand without seeing it yourself, so I don't hit well. Say, 48 AD across the board, and for me to hit with only 50 to 70% of those right off on the first shots is lucky. (Especially with all the hull 5 and 6 I face). Backing those up with the beam is always a little rough, especially if I'm up to 6's to hit. Then it's the opponents turn. Go ahead, squadron those little guys, and I'm faced with as many dice, possibly concentrated, as I can put out in a whole turn. It's frustrating.

 

[Da Boss]

Advanced Jump Points are also most useful for the Vorlons, especially the shorter ranged ships - I imagince they "love" to drop in on lesser races or even the Shadows - as presumably the Sahdow jump point collapser weapon does not work on them?:?:

Also Shadows get Scouts fluff wise cos they probably use them more - being sneaky stealthy - whereas Vorlons are all about being overpoweringly impressive?

 

[Darzoni]

Vorlons do not need Concentrate All Firepower!. They are tough enough to simply take the beating while they burn the enemy's big ships with massed fire from multiple ships.

Especially if their opponent is the EA (sorry Chernobryl).