VHB 2026 spaces & shipping volume

Putting aside the question of whether you can actually put cargo in an airlock. The question would be what the difference between cargo space which costs nothing and a hangar which is mostly going to be empty space. You need 100 DTon of Hangar for a 50 DTon vehicle, but should you require it for twenty-five 2 DTon vehicles? If the majority of the hangar is a hole to put a ship in, why isn't it the same cost as the hole you put a boxed up ship in with a fixed tonnage and cost for the equipment needed to repair a ship (and how does that equipment relate to the tools in the CSC).

There is also this obsession with rounding up to the next DTon in the books. If you actually require a minimum 1DTon (for reasons) then the required tonnage should be stated as 1 DTon plus x% of the vehicle DTons. We can have fractional DTon cargo, why not fractional DTon bays and hangars.

The benefit of a hangar is that any and all ships in it should be capable of being launched at one time. If that isn't a requirement then you could have a smaller hangar and feed it from ships stored in dedicated cargo spaces. If you can access a ship with a 10% increase for a docking space then logically just adding 10% to the Hull DTonnage would be enough space. If you stow thing in general cargo space then you are going to be moving things around a lot depending on the order you loaded. The fighter frame module just uses type 1 clamps rather than a Docking Space or Hangar and there don't appear to be any issues stated with deploying from it.

A dedicated cargo hatch would be enough to launch from the interior of a ship but you might wish to require a Routine piloting roll to ensure you didn't ding it on the way out (I am presuming a docking space is much easier to navigate out of and into).

It wouldn't suit the Navy, but for a little cargo moving pod it would be fine.
 
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Thanks. Ah, OK. So if my bay is actually 5dT, I can only fit a 4.55dT = 9 spaces vehicle in it? I confess that having been away to play D&D for a few months I have completely lost track of this. Is that something specified in High Guard rather than the new VHB?

Edit: ah, yes - HG p61. Apologies. My memory is returning.
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It's mostly abstract, otherwise hangars and docking spaces would require exact dimensions, or more leeway.

Think of specialized vehicle docks as garages.

That, will give you an idea as to how much volume you actually need.

Also, air/rafts might have landing struts, but not wheels, so if the struts aren't extended, and the motor isn't running, you might have to enter it at floor level.
 
Arrgh, nope. My brain refuses to understand this. I still don't get it.
Does the listed/calculated shipped size for a vehicle include that extra 10% for the docking bay? So, a 10-space vehicle is actually 4.55dT , and can be shipped in a minimum 5dT space? Or does the 5dT shipping size for a 10-space vehicle need another 10% "padding" in a docking bay, so it's 5.5dT rounded up to 6dT?
 
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Thanks. A corollary of that is that the 5dT air/raft docking bay on the SX Extended Serpent class Scout can take at most a 9-space vehicle, not a "standard" 5dT IISS air/raft. I like that. I have some background that is almost writing itself now.
 
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Thanks. A corollary of that is that the 5dT air/raft docking bay on the SX Extended Serpent class Scout can take at most a 9-space vehicle.

It would indeed.

I can't remember if Docking Bays are conformal meaning they only fit the craft/vehicle they're designed for though. Seems reasonable for small craft but I figure that any similar(ish) vehicle would fit.
 
Thanks. Ah, OK. So if my bay is actually 5dT, I can only fit a 4.55dT = 9 spaces vehicle in it? I confess that having been away to play D&D for a few months I have completely lost track of this. Is that something specified in High Guard rather than the new VHB?

Edit: ah, yes - HG p61. Apologies. My memory is returning.
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No. You rate the bay for 5 tons. That is the size vehicle/craft that can be accommodated. Then add 10% to the rating for how much room it takes up.

Edit: Sorry, your first one, with the bay TAKING UP 5 dtons, yeah, the 9 space vehicle is the max
 
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True.

I think the problem really is that while the cost of hangers and docking bays seem reasonable relative to the price of small craft they are just ridiculously expensive for most vehicles - an ATV bay costs MCr2.75 and a hanger (garage?) costs MCr4 which seems a bit of over the top and that's on top of the MCr1.1 or MCr2 you've already paid for the starship hull!
Might be time for a House Rule distinguishing a hanger for a space craft and a garage for a non space craft. Make the price lower, for example .05 MCr/ton or even lower at .01 MCr/ton for non grav vehicles.

The Garage won't open to space (if it does you might impose a repair cost for all the damaged equipment/vehicles).

A Docking Space for example might have more robust grav plating to allow it to slow a incoming vehicle from higher relative speeds or might accelerate your spacecraft out. While a garage assumes you are never moving very fast while entering or leaving and uses just the standard internal gravity.
 
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Hmm not sure I like this space/shipping rule. The previous edition resulted in a lot smaller shipping tonnage. I will stay with the older book as I don't want to change all the vehicles (and hangar) sizes etc that are already in MTU. A saving that will allow me to buy one of the other books of course.
 
It's mostly abstract, otherwise hangars and docking spaces would require exact dimensions, or more leeway.

Think of specialized vehicle docks as garages.

That, will give you an idea as to how much volume you actually need.

Also, air/rafts might have landing struts, but not wheels, so if the struts aren't extended, and the motor isn't running, you might have to enter it at floor level.
Unfortunately there is so much abstraction that assumptions about what consitutes the abstraction compound.

Vehicles are assumed to take up twice as much volume as they can contain (for shipping purposes). Small spacecraft take up the volume they contain for shipping purposes or an extra 10% if you actually want to use them with no inconvenience. Or double their volume if you want to work on them (load cargo etc).

Madness I tells 'ee.
 
There seems to be some confusion about using cargo space for vehicle storage. I never said it was the equivalent of hangar or docking space, infact it is not. But we have canonical designs that use cargo space for ATVs, see the launch for the Safari ship.
You treat is any other piece of cargo, so it is subject to regular unloading times and conditions. If you want to work on it in the cargo space, you would need to have additional cargo space free around it, presumably at least 10% of its displacement. And if you want to have it in ready to drive off condition, I believe you need double its displacement, though that may be a memory from a previous edition.
As for storing cargo in airlocks, I don't know if it ever addressed in the rules, but the Empress Marava wastes 6 dTons on cargo airlocks and if they cannot carry cargo in those, it has a huge impact on profitability.
 
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INHO that’s a Cargo Mount - well the cruiser lift.com thing is.

It’s not a spaceship but…
  1. If there was a door from the RV to the bike and you could then immediately ride away it would be a Docking Clamp.
  2. If the RV extended to just cover the bike and you could easily access the bike from the RV and ride away with minimal prep it’s a Docking Bay.
  3. If the RV extended to give the bike its own little garage with space to work on it and able to drive it out after about 10 minutes faffing about, it’s a Hanger.
  4. If the RV extended to cover the bike and the bike was restrained in a similar manner to the pictures above it’s cargo - takes up minimal space, is protected from the elements but is a PITA to get in an out of it’s storage area.
 
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