Vargr G-carrier test

[Annatar Giftbringer]

So, to acquaint myself with the vehicle handbook, and because it seemes like a fun idea, I tried to replicate the Ghoerruegh G-carrier from Alien Module: Vargr, or at least see how close I could get. Since the original craft was designed with the first edition vehicle handbook, I knew there'd have to be changes.

I started with its size, which according to several Vargr ship plans (Corsair, frigate and Reaver) is 3 dtons. Looking in the beta files, a 3 dton light grav vehicle has 6 spaces and 12 hull points. Already it's apparent that I'll never be able to fit 12 (!) passengers plus crew, it seems up to six are maximum. Ok, starting to see why supplement 5-6 had a 3 dton speeder to replace the 25 dton carrier from that book!

Under the new rules, a light grav vehicle has armour 3, rather than the 4 of the original. No matter, after streamlining it it reaches about the same speed, plus is more agile!

Looking at weapons, I quickly realize I'm never gonna fit a Plasma A cannon there, with its converted size of 16 spaces (almost 3x the entire vehicle!). Looking through the CSC files, I suppose I could give it a light autocannon for 1 space, turning to 2 spaces if I want it turreted.

But, what if I wanna use lighter weapons? A PGMP for instance? Will a single PGMP still require a whole space? If I choose to go for a RAM grenade launcher or a gauss rifle, could the rest of the space (250 kg - weapon mass) be used to store ammo? if the single weapon already 'costs' a space, why not fill it As I read the current beta rules, the 2 kg RAM launcher would need a space for itself, and an additional space for up to 10 reloads (60 grenades). Sounds much.

Alternatively/additionally, a battledress may 'quad-link' weapons, firing them together, and spacecraft can mount up to four weapons (mass max 250 kg) per dton (2 spaces in my case). I couldn't find any mention regarding multi-mounting weapons on vehicles, or fire-linking them. I do realize that a single small turret can mount up to 10 spaces' worth of weapons, plus 1 space for mounting the turret itself, but those 10 spaces must surely count towards shipping size, right?

10 light autocannons in a single small turret should be possible (not on my little 3 dton craft, but...) or 5 cannons with a single reload for each. All in all 'costing' 10 spaces. But what about 10 gauss rifles? Still 10 spaces? And what happens when the gunner presses fire? Will all 10 weapons fire independently, will they be 'battledress-grouped' four and four, or what?




As for the experimental 2nd edition Ghoerruegh, it looks like I'm best off making it a small, stealthy air/raft for 2-4 passengers/raiders, possibly with gun-ports. Alternatively, make two versions, one for a couple passengers, and a gunship variant, with an autocannon or a couple PGMPs and no passengers or cargo.



Thoughts, comments? Am I way off and missed something essential, or did I do mostly right, and the questions are at least semi-valid? Thanks for your time, reader

 

[collins355]

I'm left wondering why Mongoose decided to change the displacement of the G-carrier from its original 6dT in MegaTrav Vilani & Vargr to a ludicrous 3dT.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Mongoose is a reboot of Traveller. Just make the vehicle you need to have.

 

[collins355]

Sure Shawn, but the problem comes when even your "modern" design system doesn't let you accomplish the things desired in the space available - as was pointed out in the original post to this thread. The G-carrier in question is meant to allow a Vargr corsair ship to deploy a fair-sized raiding force to rustle up some booty. But by making it 3dT and thus making it impossible to fit in that raiding party it rather defeats the purpose. I agree that isn't because of a flaw in the vehicle design system, which is all I was trying to say.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Sure Shawn, but the problem comes when even your "modern" design system doesn't let you accomplish the things desired in the space available - as was pointed out in the original post to this thread. The G-carrier in question is meant to allow a Vargr corsair ship to deploy a fair-sized raiding force to rustle up some booty. But by making it 3dT and thus making it impossible to fit in that raiding party it rather defeats the purpose. I agree that isn't because of a flaw in the vehicle design system, which is all I was trying to say.

So make it bigger. What's the problem?

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

The only problem in this case is that a larger vehicles won't fit in the 3 dton bays of the current Vargr ships

I didn't create this topic to criticize the design system, or that things change between editions. If my post suggested that, I'm sorry. wasn't my intent at all.

I fully agree that in new editions there will be changes, however there will still be a gauss rifle, an air/raft and a Tigress battleship in the new edition. The important difference is that if focus was to keep everything as it was, there would be no need for a new edition at all, while keeping but adjusting them has thus far given us auto 3 gauss rifles and 6 seat air/rafts (both good changes, I'd say)

The post was written like me "thinking out loud" which may not be the best way to do it, but I wanted to share my reasoning and thoughts. I could (and perhaps should) have deleted every reference to the Ghou... Vargr g-carrier and focused on the important parts, my questions. Have I done things correctly thus far, and what about weapons (specifically smaller weapons)?

The whole thread started with me casually thinking "what would the Vargr carrier look like under he new rules?". I strongly suspected there'd be huge changes, mostly due to the original design being somewhat ludicrous. I mean, twelve passengers and a huge artillery cannon in a vehicle the size of a modern car?

If I wanted to design a good light attack carrier I'd start with making it bigger, but in this case I wanted to test the rules (and my understanding of them) as well as keep myself within the limit that the result had to fit in a 3 dton bay. Was it possible? What could I design within those limits?

Turns out I might get four passengers, if I don't bother with weapons or other fancy stuff - or remove the passengers and mount weapons.

If this was a serious attempt from my side (which it might turn out to
be) I think the best option is to design two models (both the corsair and reaver carry them in pairs) and have one gunship and one light transport - and design a larger, proper g-carrier to complement them. Looking at the g-carrier from the new rulebook it's 15 dton, which just happens to mean two could fit within a cutter - which is excellent considering the corsair just happens to carry a cutter!

This way, the idea of two attack speeders could be kept, the two 3 dton bays could carry something useful, and everyone (or at least me ^^) would be happy!

And finally, I am well aware that The ships I try to build this vehicle for might change themselves when/if they get updated to 2nd edition. as said though, this started out as a casual question and a desire to test the rules.

 

[phavoc]

DO continue to speak out loud with your thoughts. If there is a problem with the published material, the fact that you bought it gives you COMPLETE permission to debate, criticize, ask questions, postulate, pretty much whatever you choose to do. The joy of being a customer!!!

Just ignore comments lime Shawn's. He rarely ever provides useful feedback to commentary or questions. I understand where you are coming from with your design questions and they are more than fair to ask. No guarantee you will get an "official" response though.

 

[Infojunky]

Thoughts, comments? Am I way off and missed something essential, or did I do mostly right, and the questions are at least semi-valid? Thanks for your time, reader

You did it right the way I read it.

You asked the same questions i did...

My suggestion try building it under the 1st edition rules and see if you can get it to work.... Since we know basically what the 2nd edition specific stats are derived the construction rules are largely moot....

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I would say that this is not a failure of the system. The benchmark for light grav vehicles is the iconic air/raft at 4dT. If a flying jeep is 4 dT, a reasonable APC or IFV should be larger. In CT a G-Carrier was 6 dT, in the current system 10+ dT.

Possibly we could argue that people should take up less space. We should be able to squeeze in one passenger in 1 m3, as in small cars or airline cattle class. A M113 APC has roughly 8.5 m3 interior space for 2 crew and 8-10 passengers of a total volume of around 33 m3.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m113a3.htm

The interior of the M113A3 is largely the same as that in other M113 APCs, with a largely cubic shape (except for the extension containing the driver's station). It has a total usable interior volume of 8.49 cubic meters due to an improved equipment stowage layout.

 

[Infojunky]

I would say that this is not a failure of the system. The benchmark for light grav vehicles is the iconic air/raft at 4dT. If a flying jeep is 4 dT

See a key, mistake there, the Air/Raft is a flying 2 1/2ton truck, not a Jeep as such.... If it where a Jeep it would be 1dt ton....

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Well, maybe. I have always considered it a flying jeep. It transports a few people or a little cargo, not both.

On a British forum I should perhaps call it a flying Land Rover? Flandie?

 

[Infojunky]

Well, maybe. I have always considered it a flying jeep. It transports a few people or a little cargo, not both.

On a British forum I should perhaps call it a flying Land Rover? Flandie?

Air/Technical? Or going back to source literature Air/Lorrie, though that author had smaller Air/Jeeps as well...

 

[Condottiere]

Air/carrier.

Though I suspect it will be AirRover(TM).