Updates to Gaim list in P&P before it goes to print

[silashand]

I'm presuming the Gaim list in P&P is the same as the one from S&P 56 since the same issues appear to be present. Just to clean things up I'd like to see the following errata added just to clear things up:

1. Shrutaa-class Queen Battleship
--> should have Flight Computer like all the other Queens

2. Suicide fighters vs Dodge
--> a specific clarification one way or another as to whether suicide fighter attacks that are successfully avoided by Dodge are actually still destroyed. I would think not since it didn't actually impact the ship, but the wording is unclear and there may be other rationale I haven't thought about.

3. Gaim refits #4
--> Result #4 on the Gaim Refits table (Super Bomb) says the ship's photon bombs gain the Super AP, Double Damage and Slow Loading traits which is a carryover from the original 2nd edition Gaim fleet list. Given that all the Gaim photon bombs now have the DD/SL traits already, this one would seem more appropriate with the Triple Damage trait instead IMO. If not, this seems even less of an upgrade than before, especially for one of the less common results on the table. JMO though...

The only ones that absolutely need to be updated are obviously #1 & #2 for consistency and clarity.

Cheers, Gary

 

[CZuschlag]

1. Agreed. Vote approval.
2. Agreed. Clarification is necessary.
3. What did we get in the Rulemasters thread? I saw that question there specifically.

 

[Foxmeister]

On (2) IMHO, if an attack is launched and AD rolled, a successful dodge is no different to a straight miss and the Klikkitak is removed as the wording is "Once the attack has been performed, the Klikkitak is removed from play".

Regards,

Dave

 

[Da Boss]

On (2) IMHO, if an attack is launched and AD rolled, a successful dodge is no different to a straight miss and the Klikkitak is removed as the wording is "Once the attack has been performed, the Klikkitak is removed from play".

Regards,

Dave

That does seem logical as they can in fact miss (or prob glance off)

 

[CZuschlag]

From a balance standpoint, does this hose the Whitestars? It's probably worth 2 games of Gaim vs. just Whitestars with and without successful Dodges killing Klittikaks.

Could be done with the Drakh Raiders, too.

 

[Triggy]

From a balance standpoint they should be removed (you could say they've expended all of their fuel or the miss is followed by a predictable trajectory and it is then blown out of the stars). Otherwise you'd end up with fighters who (eventually) will always hit Drakh and ISA ships.

 

[CZuschlag]

That's what I was figurin'. Most of the kamikazes hit a lot more ocean than ship on their attack runs.

 

[Triggy]

That's what I was figurin'. Most of the kamikazes hit a lot more ocean than ship on their attack runs.

Not if you read James Bond (You Only Live Twice)...

 

[silashand]

I'm fine either way with an answer to #2. I would just like it clarified / spelled out better.

Otherwise you'd end up with fighters who (eventually) will always hit ... ISA ships.

Personally, anything that auto-hits White Stars is a boon from heaven in my book... ;-) (J/K)

Cheers, Gary

 

[noobdelux]

explain to me, why does a race that depends so mutch on fighters have a weapon that contradicts its own tactics, ie e mines/fighters?!
i realy cant understand this..
somone please explain this

 

[silashand]

Tactics. Most armies that have a certain weapon type develop defenses to prevent the enemy from doing the same thing to them in return. Know thyself as Sun Tsu said...

Cheers, Gary

 

[katadder]

also what better way to clear the way for your own suicide fighters than to clear space of enemy fighters.

 

[wkehrman]

That does seem logical as they can in fact miss (or prob glance off)

I'm no nuclear physicist, but I'm thinking the all important Overloaded Reactors (a key element to the Klikkitaks) will sooner rather than later go Boom.

 

[locarno24]

1.1 Gaim fleet looks good. Changes to note

1) Flight Computer has been corrected, but both the Shrutaa and Sluuka are Fleet Carriers as well. That means the Gaim have actually got a battle-priority fleet carrier - given their fighter obsession, being realistically able to put a fleet carrier on the board in raid games without crippling the fleet is a big deal....

2) Skrunnka assault ship back up to hull 6. Personally I was happy at hull 5 - I find myself looking at it and thinking 'Nova Dreadnoughts get severely owned by this thing' - tougher, better armoured, better flak, faster, more manouvrable, armour piercing weapons. Starfuries are about the Nova's only edge and you try using fighter screens against the intelligence and see how far it gets you.

3) Super Bomb is now QUAD damage. Ouchie.

4) Klikkitaks that are dodged are still expended.

 

[Triggy]

1.1 Gaim fleet looks good. Changes to note

1) Flight Computer has been corrected, but both the Shrutaa and Sluuka are Fleet Carriers as well. That means the Gaim have actually got a battle-priority fleet carrier - given their fighter obsession, being realistically able to put a fleet carrier on the board in raid games without crippling the fleet is a big deal....

2) Skrunnka assault ship back up to hull 6. Personally I was happy at hull 5 - I find myself looking at it and thinking 'Nova Dreadnoughts get severely owned by this thing' - tougher, better armoured, better flak, faster, more manouvrable, armour piercing weapons. Starfuries are about the Nova's only edge and you try using fighter screens against the intelligence and see how far it gets you.

3) Super Bomb is now QUAD damage. Ouchie.

4) Klikkitaks that are dodged are still expended.

The Skrunnka must be a typo - there's no way it should have gone back from Hull 5, there's simply no call for it as you say.

 

[skavendan]

3) Super Bomb is now QUAD damage. Ouchie.

I fail to see why the Gaim should get "quad" anything...

 

[CZuschlag]

I missed the Skruunka at Hull 6. That's a deal-breaker.

And, I agree on the Super Bomb. Not all refits are any good --- ask your local Dilgar how often he gets to fire those two extra Mass Driver dice! Seriously, not all refits are good, we know about that.

The Gaim got one lemon; 'ja see how many the Dilgar and Abbai got? Oooh, a hangar of Kotha! Can I contain my excitement? I think not!

 

[raverrn]

Alright, I've been running a few games, mostly against Mimbari, but with a few Vree for taste. In my opinion the list works well, and is mostly balanced - glad to see it. The only ship I think still needs looking at is the Stak. It dosen't seem to pack enough punch - it either needs better guns, a gimped emime, or (my favorite) a second fighter slot, exchangeable with pods.

My only other suggestion - and this may just be me - bring back the boarding rule! The reason I chose Gaim in the first place is because they were the boarding race, I wanted to play the guys who boarded enemy ships not with troops, but with horrible B5 Carnifexes. The S&P list was a real kick in the nuts - Drazi were suddenly better at boarding with Claweagles, with no warning given.

Now I'm not asking for the original rule back - I don't think it was too bad, but I can admit a bit of bias. Gaim should, however, have something.

• Maybe each breacher can count as carrying 1.5 troops (rounding down).
• Maybe troops can cause a crit on 5+, but only crit engines
• Howabout this - rush the engines! Instead of normal attacks, Gaim troops attempt to disable a ship's engines. Roll one, add +1 for each troop. If a 6 or higher is rolled, roll once on the engine critical table, adding +1 for each troop, count any number above 6 as 6. If a 5 or lower is rolled, one troop is killed. This lets Gaim slow an opponent down for the troops aboard ships.
• Instead of 2d6 when boarding, what about a flat +1?
• Or +1 after they board. Say the first turn aboard an enemy ship they get a +1 to die rolls, representing the ship's crew freaking out?

I missed the Skruunka at Hull 6. That's a deal-breaker.

And, I agree on the Super Bomb. Not all refits are any good --- ask your local Dilgar how often he gets to fire those two extra Mass Driver dice! Seriously, not all refits are good, we know about that.

The Gaim got one lemon; 'ja see how many the Dilgar and Abbai got? Oooh, a hangar of Kotha! Can I contain my excitement? I think not!

A better solution might be to ask about these flaws in thier respective threads, instead of in the Gaim one.

 

[raverrn]

Double post

 

[CZuschlag]

No, in the Dilgar's case, it's for a reason that I accept --- the Dilgar is powerful already, with a good-to-above average refit and duties list, they could get abusive in campaigns.