Turrets. particularly pictues of - a request.
- Thread starter gendo666
- Start date
I have such a large ship, that the seat in the Bay is more for if someone is closer to the Bay than the Bridge :lol:
Also you could have the passageways and station there for a mechanic's ease of work when the Bay/turret/barbette/ w/e gets damaged or busts from a skipped maintenance payment (you know who you are :wink: ).
Also you could have the passageways and station there for a mechanic's ease of work when the Bay/turret/barbette/ w/e gets damaged or busts from a skipped maintenance payment (you know who you are :wink: ).
This may seem silly....
BUT I've finally come across a statement about Turret occupancy.
I also found some stuff in both the classic Traveller as well about missile and sandcaster re-arming in a small ship that again indicate heavily that there is someone inside the Turret.
I will also say it's personal preference to a large degree.
- I still just want to see pics
I didn't feel the need to highlight the IN here.
BUT I've finally come across a statement about Turret occupancy.
I also found some stuff in both the classic Traveller as well about missile and sandcaster re-arming in a small ship that again indicate heavily that there is someone inside the Turret.
I will also say it's personal preference to a large degree.
- I still just want to see pics
I didn't feel the need to highlight the IN here.
Captain Jonah
Mongoose
Your game, your rules.
If you want gunners sitting in a buble with the guns next two them go for it
Some of us do, some of us don't. I don't but thats my choice for my games.
Traveller covers both and with 30+ years of cannon there are plenty of examples to support either. in terms of pictures of someone in a traveller bubble turret not sure I remember seeing any though there are hundreds of publications out there for the many versions.
If you want gunners sitting in a buble with the guns next two them go for it
Some of us do, some of us don't. I don't but thats my choice for my games.
Traveller covers both and with 30+ years of cannon there are plenty of examples to support either. in terms of pictures of someone in a traveller bubble turret not sure I remember seeing any though there are hundreds of publications out there for the many versions.
If you look at how turrets are manned today, you'll find that aside from the maintenance access points, people don't man weapons any more.
Modern turrets (though they are small... 5" at their largest) have no one in them, and hence their size has been greatly reduced. Missile systems have automatic feed mechanisms to load the launch arms. And the most modern ones are all VLS systems that are loaded and sealed in port and very rarely are they ever worked on at sea.
Weapon station controllers are usually concentrated in the CiC, or a weapons room located elsewhere in the ship.
I believe that when Traveller first came out the idea was to have a gunner IN the turret so PC's could actually participate in the battle. But modern tracking systems, not to mention that most space combat will be performed beyond visual range, means that gunners really are going to be looking at sensor screens that combine all the various sensors (Radar, Lidar, IR, UV, even visual) into meaningful data. The fire control program will help the gunner with targetting and such, but thus far we've never been able to computerize the intuitive leaps of logic (and luck), so a human being able to add their skill level makes sense.
Modern turrets (though they are small... 5" at their largest) have no one in them, and hence their size has been greatly reduced. Missile systems have automatic feed mechanisms to load the launch arms. And the most modern ones are all VLS systems that are loaded and sealed in port and very rarely are they ever worked on at sea.
Weapon station controllers are usually concentrated in the CiC, or a weapons room located elsewhere in the ship.
I believe that when Traveller first came out the idea was to have a gunner IN the turret so PC's could actually participate in the battle. But modern tracking systems, not to mention that most space combat will be performed beyond visual range, means that gunners really are going to be looking at sensor screens that combine all the various sensors (Radar, Lidar, IR, UV, even visual) into meaningful data. The fire control program will help the gunner with targetting and such, but thus far we've never been able to computerize the intuitive leaps of logic (and luck), so a human being able to add their skill level makes sense.
^ This. Its more safe to be somewhere else in the ship with some holo-screens giving you read-outs and you can still make the rolls as fire-control can add bonuses to player rolls rather than firing the weapon completely.
Like I said above, I have my Bay open for an operator, but thats due to ship size and generally if they can, the Gunner should report to the Bridge and use the console there. That way the area inside the Bay is used more for the Engineer crew who will repair any damage after battles than an actual Gunner.
Like I said above, I have my Bay open for an operator, but thats due to ship size and generally if they can, the Gunner should report to the Bridge and use the console there. That way the area inside the Bay is used more for the Engineer crew who will repair any damage after battles than an actual Gunner.
phavoc said:
I honestly believe that "modern tracking systems" have anything to do with the choice to occupy a turret or not.
Heck, I posted a remotely operated turret in (I think) the 3rd series of pics that I posted here.
This was designed at least a decade and a half before the game was so the design choice is pretty clear.
The reason gunners are intended to be in turrets in the game are pretty obvious.
First it simulates a more "seat of your pants" approach. if "realism" was desired pilots wouldn't pilot. They would lock in computer programmed courses on vast starships that had nothing to do with the Scouts and Traders we see in in the game. Ships like this aren't "realistic" and the idea of interstellar trade and particularly empire just aint gonna happen.
It's a game.
When you are in a in a turret in the game you are doing what Han and Luke did in star wars except you are wearing a vacc suit and praying to God.
The game is based on selective science fiction literature although it is open ended enough for you to choose your favorites as well...but I *really* don't see you fitting "Lensmen " here and I never want to see a Berserker. It is *not* Citizen of the Galaxy" where starship battles are at near relativistic speeds where kilometer sized family merchant ships launch ship killers programmed by man and then guided by computer. It is *not* Rocketship Galileo (although it kind of steals the teleportation effect ) It *IS* David Falkayn, Nicholas van Rijn and the "Muddlin Through" and it *is* Pournelle and Niven's Empire of Man (and Mote) where Black-globed space battleships have more in common with their ww2 ancestors than those that exist today, where Falkenberg's Legion plys it's mercenary trade as well as Imperial Traders Association who have their own versions of Fat and Far Traders. Thankfully we don't have to deal with Sauron supermen although the Empires psionic phobia is a bit close.
Those are the reasons turrets are manned more than any idea of "technological superiority" or "common sense".
phavoc said:gendo666 said:phavoc said:
That's what I said!
I'm trying to recall Mote and the description of the guns. I think there was some on-mount accomodations, but they were only manned rarely. Wasn't that where some of the little ones nested while they were breeding like crazy?
Horace Bury's (and I can't believe I got his name right) ship Sinbad had a "flinger" a rail accelerator used for cargos. It could also withdraw or protrude from the Langston field. It had to be assembled. (say a modular Fat Trader using one of it's hardpoints.) (The Modular portion coming with strap on fuel tanks and other areas that could be re-arranged and/or jettisoned.
The Guns on the Mac weren't being used at all during the Motie "problem" as the Lenin was tasked with "guarding humanity" and the Mac was designated for research and diplomacy so it makes perfect sense there were no troops manning such system.
Also (and unrelated) unlike in Traveller "jump shock" causes as much of a ships electronic systems to go haywire (along with their operators) and so they are shut down just before jumps.
The jump drive also is closer to that of the T.v. show Andromeda, the Honor Harrington books and Diaspora
The fact that they do use gunners.. well....
"There was plenty to eat, of course. Ship's fodder: bioplast, yeast steaks, New Washington corn plant; but Blaine had had no chance to lay in cabin stores for himself on New Chicago, and his own supplies had been destroyed in the battle with the rebel planetary defenses. Captain Cziller had of course removed his own personal goods. He'd also managed to take the leading cook and the number-three turret gunner who'd served as captain's cook"