Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Associated skills and knowledge could be defaulted to with a penalty.
Supervisor with actual skill.
Supervisor with actual skill.
Travellers Needed - Core Rulebook Reprint
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Baldo said:Here too?!? :roll: Mongoose, please do NOT turn your games into a political manifesto as someone else has done. Your pronouns are fine, it's the Newspeak jargon I keep finding everywhere I find rude and/or unnecessary...
The world is changing, and becoming more inclusive. If you don't jump on this train, you will get run over by it.
Tarkin
Banded Mongoose
I would recommend revisiting the rules for Medical Treatment (p. 78). Suppose a character is wounded after a firefight, with damage to one or two characteristics, but did not receive First Aid because a Medic was unable to get to him within a minute of his injury. Can he receive Medical Care (even without a First Aid attempt), or does he have to make do with Natural Healing? Perhaps the phrase “after First Aid is applied” should be dropped? Additionally, more information would be welcome. Is the Long-term Care in the Medic skill entry the same thing as Medical Care? How often can the treatment be attempted? For example, if the first attempt was a failure, how many times can First Aid be tried? How about surgery? I’m hoping you’ll consider dropping the First Aid requirement of treatment within a minute, or just penalise First Aid attempts past that minute.
(Incidentally, I think the Medic skill entry should point readers to p. 78 rather than p. 47.)
(Incidentally, I think the Medic skill entry should point readers to p. 78 rather than p. 47.)
Spacecraft Sensors on p.150 "The kind of sensors a ship possesses depends on the sensor package installed (as listed under Sensor Types opposite)."
EM is listed under Sensor Target and Sensor Detail, but Sensor Types on p.151 does not include EM or say at what level it becomes available (I assume any). Or even what EM stands for (electromagnetism?).
EM is listed under Sensor Target and Sensor Detail, but Sensor Types on p.151 does not include EM or say at what level it becomes available (I assume any). Or even what EM stands for (electromagnetism?).
Spacecraft Operations > Passengers on p.149 "A Traveller with Steward 0 can provide suitable services for ten middle passengers."
Trade > Passengers > Middle Passage p.206 "It requires a stateroom, 100kg of cargo, and one level of Steward per hundred passengers"
Steward ranks for middle passengers are not strictly in conflict in these two cases, but it isn't clear which case to honor, and the rules are in two different sections. Please mention them together. I'm not sure how Steward scales for middle passage:
Steward 0 = 10
Steward 1 = 100
Steward 2 = ???
Trade > Passengers > Middle Passage p.206 "It requires a stateroom, 100kg of cargo, and one level of Steward per hundred passengers"
Steward ranks for middle passengers are not strictly in conflict in these two cases, but it isn't clear which case to honor, and the rules are in two different sections. Please mention them together. I'm not sure how Steward scales for middle passage:
Steward 0 = 10
Steward 1 = 100
Steward 2 = ???
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Seems kinda illogical.
You don't see a fifty year old stewardess with Steward/four taking care of all the passengers of a jumbo jet.
A ship's purser (also pusser)[1] is the person on a ship principally responsible for the handling of money on board. On modern merchant ships, the purser is the officer responsible for all administration (including the ship's cargo and passenger manifests) and supply; frequently the cooks and stewards answer to them as well.
On modern airliners, the cabin manager (chief flight attendant) is often called the purser. The purser oversees the flight attendants by making sure airline passengers are safe and comfortable. A flight purser completes detailed reports and verifies all safety procedures are followed.
I tend to think that regardless of skill level, you need actual bodies to serve a set number of passengers.
You don't see a fifty year old stewardess with Steward/four taking care of all the passengers of a jumbo jet.
A ship's purser (also pusser)[1] is the person on a ship principally responsible for the handling of money on board. On modern merchant ships, the purser is the officer responsible for all administration (including the ship's cargo and passenger manifests) and supply; frequently the cooks and stewards answer to them as well.
On modern airliners, the cabin manager (chief flight attendant) is often called the purser. The purser oversees the flight attendants by making sure airline passengers are safe and comfortable. A flight purser completes detailed reports and verifies all safety procedures are followed.
I tend to think that regardless of skill level, you need actual bodies to serve a set number of passengers.
My biggest gripe: have someone go through and make sure that the ship stats (particularly tonnage and cost) actually add up properly.
Re alien races being removed from the core book, I can see the argument for doing this based on having the AoCS series out, but if this is done then the core book needs to state very clearly that those alien PCs are just as valid as human ones - the "core only (because everything else is inferior/wrong gameplay)" attitude associated with certain other systems doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with Traveller, but this is one of the subjects that often baits it.
Re alien races being removed from the core book, I can see the argument for doing this based on having the AoCS series out, but if this is done then the core book needs to state very clearly that those alien PCs are just as valid as human ones - the "core only (because everything else is inferior/wrong gameplay)" attitude associated with certain other systems doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with Traveller, but this is one of the subjects that often baits it.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Actually, could we have a clarification/alteration in how Language works in the game? Can we make it that all characters can assume a Level 1 skill in their native language, but they need at least Language 0 to speak Anglic. I think it should be possible to have tiered levels of ability in your native language - not everybody has an English degree - and it could be useful for those people studying etymology or presenting a creative piece of writing for example. I also think that Anglic is such a fundamental aspect of interstellar communications, as a universal trading language, that all Travellers ought to feel compelled to take it as basic training, regardless of technology, and that it could be potentially a handicap in a game if they don't.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I think in the context of the Traveller, it's highly circumstantial, and very well dependent on your socio-economic tier, and to a certain extent, educational level.
Ambitious aristocrats and bourgeoise are likely to have their progeny tutored in a wide variety of languages used by the ruling class(es), the more canny ones in their commercial variants.
If we compare this to Lord of the Rings (and Dungeons and Dragons), you have Common to communicate amongst various races and nationalities, possible a local dialect, whatever the bureaucrats in Minas Tirith speak, and High Elven for the cultural elite.
And you may find yourself being better to express yourself in Anglic, than your mother tongue.
Ambitious aristocrats and bourgeoise are likely to have their progeny tutored in a wide variety of languages used by the ruling class(es), the more canny ones in their commercial variants.
If we compare this to Lord of the Rings (and Dungeons and Dragons), you have Common to communicate amongst various races and nationalities, possible a local dialect, whatever the bureaucrats in Minas Tirith speak, and High Elven for the cultural elite.
And you may find yourself being better to express yourself in Anglic, than your mother tongue.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Language is considered a unifying factor, and most empires are well aware of that.
I can't speak for the Zhodani, who may rely more on some form of psionicspik, but it's highly likely that the Confederation heavily promotes (possibly mandates) Anglic as the primary or secondary language in institutes of learning, and very likely, prints technical and scientific journals in Anglic.
With the Imperium, Anglic may be encouraged as a secondary language, though now that I think of it, what language(s) do the Imperium currently use as court and bureaucratic functions?
I can't speak for the Zhodani, who may rely more on some form of psionicspik, but it's highly likely that the Confederation heavily promotes (possibly mandates) Anglic as the primary or secondary language in institutes of learning, and very likely, prints technical and scientific journals in Anglic.
With the Imperium, Anglic may be encouraged as a secondary language, though now that I think of it, what language(s) do the Imperium currently use as court and bureaucratic functions?
Re Languages/Anglic, Traveller doesn't really go for "mandatory" skills. Aside from that, since the player doesn't (by default) get to decide what to train in (that part being RNG), adding a Language 0 requirement just to be able to talk to one another would simply have the effect of forcing every service skill table (or for some careers, every specialization table) to include Language for the sake of basic training.
That, or everyone is effectively required to spend one of their two Connection skills on Language, in which case you might as well just say that everyone gets it anyway.
Really, it just creates a whole lot of headache for no particular benefit. There's a reason why space-fi generally handwaves language barriers unless said barrier is the focus of the episode's plot.
Re the notion of an English degree (or the Traveller equivalent): given what that involves, that strikes me as being as much or more about things like Art(Write), Science(Linguistics), and Persuasde rather than a high Language skill, since those lean into actually making advanced use of it (and dealing with the theoretical underpinnings) rather than just speaking/comprehending it. (They might even be worse-than-average at being comprehended if they're the type that's prone to lapsing into erudite bafflegab.)
That, or everyone is effectively required to spend one of their two Connection skills on Language, in which case you might as well just say that everyone gets it anyway.
Really, it just creates a whole lot of headache for no particular benefit. There's a reason why space-fi generally handwaves language barriers unless said barrier is the focus of the episode's plot.
Re the notion of an English degree (or the Traveller equivalent): given what that involves, that strikes me as being as much or more about things like Art(Write), Science(Linguistics), and Persuasde rather than a high Language skill, since those lean into actually making advanced use of it (and dealing with the theoretical underpinnings) rather than just speaking/comprehending it. (They might even be worse-than-average at being comprehended if they're the type that's prone to lapsing into erudite bafflegab.)
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
This is switching topics slightly, but I would full on reject that Linguistics could be categorized as a Science. Things like Etymology are certainly language skills, but have no basis in the processes that are fundamental to scientific method. Just because you are well educated in language does not mean that you understand how to conduct a scientific investigation - it is the difference between deductive and inductive knowledge.Garran said:
I think somebody mentioned above about how science skills should break down Physical Sciences, Life Sciences and Social Sciences. Speaking as a science educator, this is correct. Physical Sciences are broadly analyzed using Calculus, whereas Life Sciences (which are very diverse and specialized too - a Neurologist wouldn’t know much about Botany, for example) and Social Sciences are generally analyzed through Statistics.
Anyway, back to topic, but I do think if we have a Linguistics skill it needs to be clarified in its use and purpose a little. I don’t like it just being handled by handwavery.
TrippyHippy said:
It already is a science specialization in 2E core (and a social science specialization in the Companion), which is why I used it in the example.
I'm not that fond of having highly-specific science/profession/etc specializations, mainly because the rest of the system is set up to have very generalized skills, and ranks and training are measured accordingly. Relegating a select few to Craft (Underwater Basket Weaving) levels of detail will result in them being too narrow/specific to be useful in gameplay (or something that you ever want to get saddled with from a package/connection choice), especially when set against the non-specialized options.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Garran said:
It shouldn’t be. That is my point. People who are linguists may be respected experts in their field but not have any understanding of scientific method whatsoever. It is a different discipline. It is not even a social science, because there is no inductive reasoning involved. That is, you can find the meaning of words and their roots through research, but you don’t do experiments on them to test them. That is the difference.
And, y’know it is important to get an understanding of what Science is or isn't in a Science Fiction game.
iainjcoleman
Banded Mongoose
The first edition of Mongoose Traveller did break the science specialisations down into Physical Science, Biological Science and so forth. It wasn't very satisfactory, with all kinds of anomalies.
So I had a go at doing my own breakdown. It too turned out to be not very satisfactory.
It turns out that creating a clean taxonomy of academic disciplines is really hard. Creating one simple enough for use in a game is even harder.
As a result, I don't expect the writers of a spaceship game to produce a solution to this difficult problem. The approach in the second edition, where all the disciplines are specialisations of a single Science skill, is at least simple, and so I prefer this approach for gaming purposes.
So I had a go at doing my own breakdown. It too turned out to be not very satisfactory.
It turns out that creating a clean taxonomy of academic disciplines is really hard. Creating one simple enough for use in a game is even harder.
As a result, I don't expect the writers of a spaceship game to produce a solution to this difficult problem. The approach in the second edition, where all the disciplines are specialisations of a single Science skill, is at least simple, and so I prefer this approach for gaming purposes.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
It is worth also noting that having seperate Science skills is still an optional ruling in the Traveller Companion for Mongoose Traveller 2.
I do accept that having a singular Science skill, with Specialities is simpler in play - and one could argue that level 0 for Science is the equivalent of high school Science, which would incorporate Physics, Chemistry and Biology along with other applications. However, I still baulk at some of the entrees included under the ‘Social Science’ subset, in particular. Science as a single entree is very, very broad in the core rules - and some studies could definitely be shifted outwards - Language/Linguistics being one clear example.
As it stands, the Language skill is next to redundant in the game - because of the manner in which it is categorized and hand waved.
I do accept that having a singular Science skill, with Specialities is simpler in play - and one could argue that level 0 for Science is the equivalent of high school Science, which would incorporate Physics, Chemistry and Biology along with other applications. However, I still baulk at some of the entrees included under the ‘Social Science’ subset, in particular. Science as a single entree is very, very broad in the core rules - and some studies could definitely be shifted outwards - Language/Linguistics being one clear example.
As it stands, the Language skill is next to redundant in the game - because of the manner in which it is categorized and hand waved.
