Traveller World Creation

[pdunwin]

Apologies for the cross-post, but this sub-forum seems more active than "The Rulesmasters."

I'm hoping to start a game of Mongoose Traveller soon. I have been crafting a small subsystem, consisting of 7 worlds in a rough semicircle. The intent was that they're an offshoot from the Imperium, founded some hundreds of years ago, and are now a stable sector of their own.

I shouldn't expect the random tables just to give me a stable group of worlds, with interdependencies and industry, but what I got were the following UWPs:

D20076A-8 S Na Va
A7B2530-9 TAS C Fl NI
CAC76BD-A R C Fl NI
D224621-6 S NI
C492676-8 NI
D000699-8 S As Na NI Va
B334684-B N S NI

A handful of low-g, relatively low-pop worlds, not a single industrial or agricultural planet. I had to up some of their TLs just so the populations wouldn't die.

The main problem is the population roll. On average, it will be 4-6, making the world NI. At 9+ population required, "In"-code worlds will be pretty rare, even assuming the atmosphere is proper for them. Apart from this, it seems odd to me to have an entire star system with a population on par with a city. The rules say such a world is a very small colony and "may differ considerably from the descriptions in the rest of this chapter." Is that meant to encourage me to make changes?

If so, what changes should I make? I'd like to have some interesting trade possibilities going on. Right now, though, I'm not even sure who's manufacturing the ships, since there seems to be no industrial base. Am I taking "non-industrial" too literally? Could there be corporations with higher TLs, but that aren't large enough to change the average TL of a system?

Thanks for the advice.

(Following this post, I went in and made some manual changes. I felt justified in doing this because of one line in the book, under Cultural Differences: "The Referee should either decide how a culture has developed over the centuries or roll on the table overleaf (or better yet, both - a combination of reasoned extrapolation and random strangeness produces a nicely organic feeling culture)." I felt this could safely be applied to other aspects of world creation. With that in mind, I revised the UWPs to the following:

D20076A-A S Na Va
A7B2530-A TAS C Fl NI
CA876BD-A R C Ag Ga Ri
D224621-A S NI
C492976-B Hi In
D000699-A S As Na NI Va
B334684-B N S NI

So, now I have an "Ag Ga Ri" world, and a "Hi In" world. I also bumped the TLs up to what I want as the average for my subsector. TLs by the book rarely seem to come in much above pre-stellar and often aren't enough for survival on the world itself!

I also realized that even a "NI" world (or worse, a "Na Va") world, in addition to being a decent customer base, will have 1d6 randomly determined goods.

Despite these revelations, I'd like advice on how to handle world creation in the future. Will I always need to have my thumb on the scales a little if I want more traditionally pleasant planets? The book doesn't tell me what to expect - there's no example list of UWPs - but I really thought there'd be a better chance of getting more than just colony worlds.)

 

[rust]

Frankly, Traveller's random world generation system works
well enough when one wants to generate a single world for
an adventure, but it delivers useless results when one wants
to generate an interconnected group of worlds. Such clus-
ters of worlds require intelligent design, the probability that
a random process results in a viable group of worlds is very
low.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Agreed, the only way to make a subsector of worlds make sense internally is to modify the random UWPs.

Personally, I always start with generating random physical characteristics (Size, Atmo, Hydro, Temp and GG presence).

THEN, I decide the colonization pattern and roll populations based on habitability. Governments can be either randomly rolled or assigned, depending on what I am trying to create.

I agree with rust that the completely random method, even the Space Opera or Hard Science versions, are pretty worthless without the Referee modifying them based on a vision for the setting.

Now, going back to your list of worlds, here is what I would do at first glance:

1. Only one world has a breathable atmosphere (C492676-8), I would bump up the Population to 9, making it an Industrial world.

2. I would change the atmosphere on (CAC76BD-A), make the Atmo 8 or 9 and this becomes an Agricultural world.

3. I would probably tweek (A7B2530-9), make the atmo breathable as well and bump up the population a bit (maybe 7 or 8) and see what that does.

Doing these three things gives you 3 worlds with breathable atmospheres, an AG world, an IN world and a third world that is somewhere in between. Now you have a more viable mix with a lot of trade between the various worlds, with raw materials flowing to the IN world, food flowing from the AG world and manufactured goods flowing from the IN world.

 

[far-trader]

...Following this post, I went in and made some manual changes. I felt justified in doing this because of one line in the book, under Cultural Differences: "The Referee should either decide how a culture has developed over the centuries or roll on the table overleaf (or better yet, both - a combination of reasoned extrapolation and random strangeness produces a nicely organic feeling culture)." I felt this could safely be applied to other aspects of world creation. With that in mind, I revised the UWPs

Bravo! Genuinely and sincerely This is what RPGs and refereeing them is about. There should be a forward to Traveller in big bold type along the lines of:

The rules are guidelines only and the referee and players will have to apply their intelligence and imagination to them to create a believable and fun game.

So yes, for a good Traveller universe you will have to slip the old thumb on the scale from time to time, don't worry though, unlike at the butcher's no one will complain

 

[pdunwin]

Agreed, the only way to make a subsector of worlds make sense internally is to modify the random UWPs.

Personally, I always start with generating random physical characteristics (Size, Atmo, Hydro, Temp and GG presence).

THEN, I decide the colonization pattern and roll populations based on habitability. Governments can be either randomly rolled or assigned, depending on what I am trying to create.

Glad to hear it. I'm very new to the system, and I'm not sure yet when it's appropriate for the hand of the referee to loom in. Of course I want to see how things work before making changes, but all told I've generated a few dozen worlds and I don't see the numbers lining up for what I want except once in a blue moon, as it were.

A shame there aren't "system packages" the way there are "skill packages." Want a trading network? Impose the following traits for a good mix of supply and demand? Want a sector recovering from or teetering on the brink of war? Distribute these government codes in close groupings. Want an uncharted backwater ripe for scouting? Fill in the blanks of these UWPs.

Or point buy system.

Or, I hear Diaspora has good system generation rules. Maybe there's something to be gleaned from those.

Now, going back to your list of worlds, here is what I would do at first glance:

1. Only one world has a breathable atmosphere (C492676-8), I would bump up the Population to 9, making it an Industrial world.

2. I would change the atmosphere on (CAC76BD-A), make the Atmo 8 or 9 and this becomes an Agricultural world.

3. I would probably tweek (A7B2530-9), make the atmo breathable as well and bump up the population a bit (maybe 7 or 8) and see what that does.

Apart from #3 that's exactly what I did. I liked the idea of a world with hydrocarbon seas and a company with a near monopoly on petrochemical and metal extraction from them.

Next time I generate a sector, I'll take note of "so close" worlds that could have been something special if the dice had just been one lower or higher.

Doing these three things gives you 3 worlds with breathable atmospheres, an AG world, an IN world and a third world that is somewhere in between. Now you have a more viable mix with a lot of trade between the various worlds, with raw materials flowing to the IN world, food flowing from the AG world and manufactured goods flowing from the IN world.

I'll keep that in mind and see how it goes. I don't know yet if the game will even involve much trade, but I didn't want to be caught without the possibility of interesting trade.

...Following this post, I went in and made some manual changes. I felt justified in doing this because of one line in the book, under Cultural Differences: "The Referee should either decide how a culture has developed over the centuries or roll on the table overleaf (or better yet, both - a combination of reasoned extrapolation and random strangeness produces a nicely organic feeling culture)." I felt this could safely be applied to other aspects of world creation. With that in mind, I revised the UWPs

Bravo! Genuinely and sincerely This is what RPGs and refereeing them is about.

Thanks. The idea of random vs. determined is a contentious one in general, even without getting into the idea of fudging. I generally feel that if you're going to ignore the results anyway you shouldn't bother rolling, but I must admit that there's a difference between "knowing exactly what one wants" and "slightly tweaking a set of random results to get something one can work with." The slippery slope is always in the back of my mind, but I think I can better quiet it now.

 

[qstor]

Paul for more detailed (perhaps no so more realistic) system generation try GURPS First In or MegaTraveller: World Builder's Handbook.

Traveller has been known to have issues with the random system generation. Sometimes author's have taken the time to rework impossible situations like having a population on a vacuum world with a Tech level of 0. (Someone mentioned to me..doesnt mean the population has to be humans?)

Mike

 

[pdunwin]

Paul for more detailed (perhaps no so more realistic) system generation try GURPS First In or MegaTraveller: World Builder's Handbook.

I'll look into more books after I have some successful sessions under my belt. We start this Tuesday.

Traveller has been known to have issues with the random system generation. Sometimes author's have taken the time to rework impossible situations like having a population on a vacuum world with a Tech level of 0. (Someone mentioned to me..doesnt mean the population has to be humans?)

This is part of why I would ultimately like to be able to just use the worlds as generated. It seems as though even my original sector could work, if only I could see how. Yes, the TLs seem low, but they can be higher in a narrow area or in one small part of the world, so maybe there are industrial arcologies, in which workers are born, live, and die while the poor grubbers outside struggle just to keep their survival gear intact. Yes, the world is non-industrial and non-agricultural and is generally considered a hellhole, but maybe it's a finanacial or entertainment hub like New York or LA (which is what I'm considering for D20076A-A S Na Va). The numbers might be gold in the hand of a more practiced referee because there's a lot about a world that ISN'T in the UWP. Heck, the world itself might actually BE an utter dud, but the rest of the system might be full of wonders and opportunity. Why do a billion people live on this ridiculous planet? Because of all the Ancient tech that litters the system and is constantly streaking down from the sky to splash into the insidious muck. Et cetera.

I'm okay with the changes I made, but I want to get to the point that I can take dross and really make it shine.

 

[qstor]

Yes, the TLs seem low, but they can be higher in a narrow area or in one small part of the world, so maybe there are industrial arcologies, in which workers are born, live, and die while the poor grubbers outside struggle just to keep their survival gear intact. Yes, the world is non-industrial and non-agricultural and is generally considered a hellhole, but maybe it's a finanacial or entertainment hub like New York or LA (which is what I'm considering for D20076A-A S Na Va).

Yeah the MegaTraveller book has TLs for the government, transportation etc. Another thing to remember unlike Star Trek, nothing prevents traders from selling energy weapons to a TL 6 society. Doesn't mean the buyers can't fix them when they break but they can use them against the TL 6 population. If your using the Third Imperium they just can't sell them nukes or bio/chemical weapons.

Mike

 

[CosmicGamer]

I'm not even sure who's manufacturing the ships, since there seems to be no industrial base. Am I taking "non-industrial" too literally? Could there be corporations with higher TLs, but that aren't large enough to change the average TL of a system?

I believe Ship building is based on the star port and not the industrial trade code. In the Imperium, a star port is Imperial territory and separate and I believe the UWP indicates levels of law, government, tech level... outside the star port.

 

[far-trader]

I'm not even sure who's manufacturing the ships, since there seems to be no industrial base. Am I taking "non-industrial" too literally? Could there be corporations with higher TLs, but that aren't large enough to change the average TL of a system?

The trade codes, such as Non-Industrial (Ni) and Industrial (In) are more about import/export than local capability. A Ni world could well be a case of having a local industrial base of significant capacity serving local needs but not have anything worth exporting. An In world might be a big exporter of manufactured goods while locally being quite minimalist as consumers. Sort of the antithesis of Henry Ford's vision of industry production that the workers could afford.

There are many ways to look at the string of numbers for a world. As many as there are people looking at it

It's almost a game in itself puzzling out a rational background to fit the raw random world stats. One that can lead to frustration, or inspiration.

Generally the TL of the world is the average locally available. It's what you can expect to buy without extensive searching and easily find service for. There might be higher or lower TL items but they will be few, difficult to find or have fixed, and probably more expensive.

As Cosmic Gamer notes the Starport is the general reference for Starship (Class A Starports) and Spacecraft (Class A and B Starports) construction. For commercial and civilian versions. In previous rules the government of the world can build Starships and Spacecraft regardless of the Starport Class but still subject to the TL available.

 

[pdunwin]

I'm not even sure who's manufacturing the ships, since there seems to be no industrial base. Am I taking "non-industrial" too literally? Could there be corporations with higher TLs, but that aren't large enough to change the average TL of a system?

The trade codes, such as Non-Industrial (Ni) and Industrial (In) are more about import/export than local capability. A Ni world could well be a case of having a local industrial base of significant capacity serving local needs but not have anything worth exporting. An In world might be a big exporter of manufactured goods while locally being quite minimalist as consumers.

Ok, this is a big piece of the puzzle that I didn't even realize I was missing. A world that is neither Ag nor Na simply has no net agricultural surplus or need. In trade terms it's a null, but in world terms there could be booming farms to take care of the huge population, for instance. Alright, this opened a mental door for me and will help me explain things to my players. Thanks.

 

[BP]

As rust posted - 'clusters of worlds require intelligent design'.

Random generation, though, can spur the imagination, plus it's 'easier' for larger numbers of systems...

My approach is to generate large batches of UWPs and then pick and choose what to use. Key systems will get manually created or tweaked as plot and setting require, but usually something pops up that is useable.

One could design a meta level of system gen above the current one - a region level of rules that would apply DMs/cutoffs based on a desired regional outcome. But such outcomes would still be limited and seems like overkill.

 

[GypsyComet]

With that in mind, I revised the UWPs to the following:

D20076A-A S Na Va
A7B2530-A TAS C Fl NI
CA876BD-A R C Ag Ga Ri
D224621-A S NI
C492976-B Hi In
D000699-A S As Na NI Va
B334684-B N S NI

So, now I have an "Ag Ga Ri" world, and a "Hi In" world. I also bumped the TLs up to what I want as the average for my subsector. TLs by the book rarely seem to come in much above pre-stellar and often aren't enough for survival on the world itself!

I like it. My read of this cluster follows. First let's assign some nonsense names so I'm not just pointing and saying "that one".

Askel D20076A-A S Na Va
Bezor A7B2530-A TAS C Fl NI
Cambia CA876BD-A R C Ag Ga Ri
Daphne D224621-A S NI
Ensom C492976-B Hi In
Finch Belt D000699-A S As Na NI Va
Gashunk B334684-B N S NI

Bezor builds starships. They do so as a highly specialized industry that dominates the planet, and probably has some parts coming in from others. The world functions to some extent on the Golden Rule: Show up with enough Gold, and they'll build you a ship.

Askel used to be a powerhouse, but lost a war. Maybe internal, maybe to another world. Now they are a colony ruled with an iron fist. They outnumber the rest of the cluster (except Ensom) combined, so they are a powder keg waiting to pop.

Cambia is a nice place to live, except for the people who run it. Don't break any laws, because they *will* know. Cambia also grows a lot of food, to the point that the other worlds may depend on that food more than they should.

Daphne probably started as that Scout Base and grew from there. The atmosphere is barely there, but there is probably *something* in the system worth staying for. That said, it might be the system in the middle, meaning everyone goes through the system eventually.

Ensom has everything. Good tech, enough air for two worlds, plenty of people (too many, in fact). Everything except useful quantities of Lanthanum. So they don't build starships or even spacecraft in large numbers. This is *probably* a sore point for at least one of the governing bodies here. There are several of those as well, which is about the only thing keeping Ensom from rolling up the rest of the Cluster.

Finch Belt is a hard place to make a living, but millions do, following strict laws to stay alive and flying. Odds are the Belt is not well colonized, with the population concentrated in a handful of community rocks with outside mining done by carefully vetted companies and individuals. The safety of the City Rocks is paramount, and you *will* be held accountable for threatening it.

Gashunk is a wan little world with just enough atmosphere to be worth the name. Home to an errant member of the Jumpers, those natives of Bezor who know how to built jump drives, Gashunk is still not up to the task of making its own, but can and does built subcraft better than Bezor is currently capable of.

---

You have potential tensions, four worlds that have dominant positions in their respective trade sectors (food, tech goods, starships, and non-Jump spacecraft), a fifth world powder keg, and a couple fringe worlds getting along based on position or some resource that falls below the Trade Code radar.

Looks good.

A few details. TAS is probably everywhere except Askel and Finch Belt. If TAS is in those systems it is probably unwelcome.

Are your Scouts a unified exterior body, or is each base independent? If they are unified, that's an eighth "power" in the Cluster.

Tech Level 11 hardware is probably widely available across the cluster due to commerce, even though many of the worlds can't make it themselves.

By the rules, starship annual maintenance can be done at C ports or higher. By the look of this cluster, only Bezor and maybe Gashunk can do it *right*. Go elsewhere at your peril, Captain.

The lion's share of commerce will be going through Ensom and Cambia. Food shipments going to Askel are going to be tightly guarded once they arrive. These three worlds all consider themselves the rightful rulers of the cluster. The "Colony" government code on Askel tells me they've already tussled over that point at least once.

Gashunk has the rep for the best in-system defenses. Fortunately for everyone else, that tonnage can't leave the system.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

My old FORTRAN and ZX81 programs generated subsectors with jump routes according to the rules used at that time. This time, I'm learning Python and plan on writing up (real quick) a program that still generates worlds using the rules, but I'll include the option of letting the computer place the worlds in the subsector (after they are all generated) so that jump routes will make better sense.

Maybe the computer can be shown the jump routes (and trading routes) ahead of time and then start matching its list of planets to the proper hexes along the routes?

 

[pdunwin]

I like it. My read of this cluster follows.

Wow. See, that's what I'd like to be able to do on my own at some point. I wrote up a little bit about "Askel" being a former penal colony and the center of a rebellion. That left me with some difficulty in explaining the population, which I hadn't thought of as the size it is. As my game is tonight, I'll probably have to be somewhat vague about the exact backgrounds of the worlds. I have to keep in mind that they're each much more than their UWPs. Thanks for the insights.

 

[GypsyComet]

A few things that can help you to "read" a cluster like this:

Non-Ag and Non-Ind are net importers of those two categories.
Ag and Ind are net exporters of those categories.
These four trade classifications can show you commerce flow very quickly. The population requirements of Industrial worlds (billions instead of mere millions) makes those worlds trade magnets for nearly every other type of product. Food is obviously important, but the raw resources to feed the industrial complex are also going to flow inward at a notable rate.

Asteroid Belts with commercially viable governments are going to be big ore suppliers to Industrial worlds. Seemingly useless rockballs near an Industrial world probably started as mining colonies.

Port rating determines ship building capability, but can be complicated by TL. In a unified trade environment like the Third Imperium, that complication probably just means extra time for specific components. In a group of independent worlds, that TL is far more binding.

Colonies (Gov 6) are also good for defining political landscape. *Someone* is running the world, and the reasons why can set the tone for the whole cluster. A cluster with several colonies probably has a wild recent history.

Balkanized worlds (Gov 7) can range from low pop curiosities to high pop boiling points. In such cases, the port and TL codes for the world are the maximums amongst the nations, and are not necessarily universal or even common. Nor are the two necessarily vested in the same nation...

Corporate worlds (Gov 1) can be effectively colonies/facilities of an outside corporation, or a local Mining Company simply is the only authority around, as two examples.

Because your shipbuilding world is TL10, you are looking at a whole lot of J1 ships. J2 ships are going to be rare, possibly antiques.

 

[pdunwin]

Asteroid Belts with commercially viable governments are going to be big ore suppliers to Industrial worlds.

What do you mean by "commercially viable government"? I don't have the codes under my belt yet, and I'm not sure what each really means anyway.

Seemingly useless rockballs near an Industrial world probably started as mining colonies.

Whether not not they are technically As-type?

Colonies (Gov 6) are also good for defining political landscape. *Someone* is running the world, and the reasons why can set the tone for the whole cluster. A cluster with several colonies probably has a wild recent history.

How do you mean?

Balkanized worlds (Gov 7) can range from low pop curiosities to high pop boiling points. In such cases, the port and TL codes for the world are the maximums amongst the nations, and are not necessarily universal or even common. Nor are the two necessarily vested in the same nation...

Good to know. That's one of the types I was having trouble with.

Because your shipbuilding world is TL10, you are looking at a whole lot of J1 ships. J2 ships are going to be rare, possibly antiques.

Interesting that you'd assume Jump-2 ships would be antiques. Did I mention that this sector is an offshoot from the Imperium that lost contact? Jump-1 ships can still cross two parsecs with two jumps, right? I would think such excursions would tend to be higher risk and higher reward.

Thanks again.

Edit: looking at character generation, unless I want to seriously rework the event tables, this sector will probably have to be merely remote, not entirely cut off. Still, I could see there being just a few Jump-3 ships that visit from time to time, a few more Jump-2s that are owned by muckity-mucks in the sector, and the rest Jump-1 and inter-system craft.

 

[GypsyComet]

Asteroid Belts with commercially viable governments are going to be big ore suppliers to Industrial worlds.

What do you mean by "commercially viable government"? I don't have the codes under my belt yet, and I'm not sure what each really means anyway.

This is not really a rules call, but an interpretation of government code and law level. Asteroid mining requires the use of high energy tools: explosives, lasers, and similar. All things a really high Law Level world is going to forbid or severely limit. Belt Miners tend to be a lawless and independent bunch. The two sides don't really mix...

Seemingly useless rockballs near an Industrial world probably started as mining colonies.

Whether not not they are technically As-type?

Rockballs are pretty much any world with little to no atmosphere. Asteroid Belts are good for mining because of the lack of a gravity well to get out of, but mining can go on anywhere. World with no atmosphere are popular because you can't do much else wiith them on a large scale. Living and agriculture are going to be underground, so you are already digging...

Colonies (Gov 6) are also good for defining political landscape. *Someone* is running the world, and the reasons why can set the tone for the whole cluster. A cluster with several colonies probably has a wild recent history.

How do you mean?

Colonial governments arise from several different events: first settlement that is not yet independent, old settlement in crisis, lost a war and now conquered, and resource grabs that are not intended to *ever* be independent, are the most general cases. The first and last tend toward small populations, while the crisis-related causes tend toward larger populations. A lot of colonies in a region suggests a lot of population movement, troop movement, or both. Exciting times.

Then you decide who is running the colonies. Resource colonies stuck between a couple of needy economies (or competitors in some other sense) are a sure way to generate political tension. A "colony" run by its conqueror means a past war, and having a warmonger for a neighbor is rarely comfortable. If the conquered world is under an iron fist for very long, the neighbors get the makings of an evil empire right next door: more political tension.

But the same UWP can be read another way: Looking at the cluster, I could also interpret the colony as the victim of internal strife, an environmental disaster, or both. This is usually led by a lower population, but if we assume the world used to have a lot more, then the current population is now a shattered remnant while still outnumbering the rest of the cluster. Maybe the industrial world is a world of refugees, the result of a massive exodus in the face of a failing ecosystem, internal war, or similar. What is left is administered with an eye toward doing no more damage, could easily have been requested by the remaining natives, and belies the usual draconian image associated with that high a Law Level.

As a side note the 2300AD setting is basically a Balkanized central world with each major nation having its own string of colonies.

Because your shipbuilding world is TL10, you are looking at a whole lot of J1 ships. J2 ships are going to be rare, possibly antiques.

Interesting that you'd assume Jump-2 ships would be antiques. Did I mention that this sector is an offshoot from the Imperium that lost contact? Jump-1 ships can still cross two parsecs with two jumps, right? I would think such excursions would tend to be higher risk and higher reward.

I meant J-2 as a single jump.

If they have lost contact with the Imperium, then they are on their own technologically. If that happened more than a century before "now", then any ship with more range than they can locally manufacture is *old*.

If they are merely remote, then you will get visitors that may have higher jump ranges, but most of those ships will eventually leave, and are going to be very difficult to repair within the cluster. In Imperial terms this is usually considered a backwater. The Imperium has plenty of them. But backwaters don't usually feature full-blown Industrial worlds; a world with that much commercial pull affects worlds for parsecs in all directions.