Traveller, TAS, and AI

They are not contradictory. Adobe Illustrator is inferior to several of its former competitors. Adobe bought the companies and killed the competition without incorporating the features they acquired. Thus it remains an inferior product to the programs it killed.

I did explain that, using the Google analogy and the flooding of the market. Corporations will use AI unless we make them NOT use AI. The Hollywood unions are already in arms over the AI actress and the precedent it will set. If they are allowed to progress, you will not find anything but fake crap. Much like, except for Passover, you cannot find Coke without Corn Syrup in it in the US.
The view that I have to select one ignores history. When corrupt people want to oppress and control the public, they do not stop at only one dystopian set of rules. And in case you have not noticed, people are being arrested for complaining about girls being attacked; being called fascists for flying their country's flag, and placed on watch lists for disagreeing with leftist policies.

It is a matter of ethics. Will other art made by humans still be available? Of course. Someone will still find a way to produce art, but it will devalued by the proliferation of cheap AI slop.
 
I will try to explain this as simply as possible.
AI will cause fulltime artists to cease to exist. Where will you buy your good art from then?
Why will fulltime artists cease to exist? Because most people choose things based on cost analysis, businesses and individuals. So most of the money will go to lower cost "AI art". That will put most artists out of business. Therefore, no more people's art, just computer art.

I used to do a lot of renn faires. I usually buy a few knives as well as a pair of boots made by artisans. Now, I can buy boots and knives that are mass produced, but they won't ever be art. They did however make it so that most people can no longer make a living selling their handmade art, even if their art is better than what I can find in any store.

So, no, both things can be true. "AI art is slop" and “AI art will supplant great artists.” I have demonstrated the details of how above.
People don’t buy good art based on price. They buy on aesthetic taste. People buy mediocre art based on price, which is why we have so many Live Laugh Love posters in peoples’ homes. Nothing to be lost there.

So no, all you demonstrated (yet again) is that AI will displace mediocre artists while those of us with taste will only buy AI art if it is more pleasing than great human art, which we all agree is unlikely.

This whole conversation is prolonged by three people saying “oh god ai art is terrible and all the artists will starve” while failing to grasp the huge logical fallacy in that argument.

Will other art made by humans still be available? Of course.
I spoke too soon: we’re halfway there!

So we agree that AI slop will not destroy art (any more than the acres of human-produced slop does now!) people who like bad art will be content buying AI bad art. Those of us who don’t like bad art will continue to buy great, human art. Agreement!
 
Last edited:
One aspect to consider is efficiency, and by that I mean actual monetary cost.

We're currently experiencing both a bubble, and startup stage, where the venture capital is pouring in money, while everyone is trying to build up market share, while using customers as beta testers.

When they actually apply the processing costs, operating plus capital plus profit, you might see a lot less slop.
 
You don’t explain why I, for instance, will be banned from buying the superior human-made art, which I would continue to do.
You won't be banned. The argument is that you won't be able to find the art because it will be buried under layers of un-art and there are limits as to how much effort you will put into finding the good stuff because you are human.

This is precisely what we want to put the brakes on with regards to Traveller - but there is another layer.

My honest fear is that damn near everything that gets produced will be by machine. Yes, there will be a market for human-made projects, and we can absolutely sit there as a niche publisher (so long as we are not crowded out ourselves by AI-made Traveller, hence our position on TAS).

Now imagine that world for a moment. You get home from work (and here I assume we all have jobs, ha!), get your dinner, and then sit down in front of (say) Netflix. And everything you watch has been produced by a machine. As a species, we all plug ourselves into the machine and get downloaded with machine-created content. And, somewhere along the line, we might even convince ourselves it is good content.

I... don't want that.

Thinking about the likes of Netflix... I am not entirely certain this not on the cards.
 
People don’t buy good art based on price. They buy on aesthetic taste. People buy mediocre art based on price, which is why we have so many Live Laugh Love posters in peoples’ homes. Nothing to be lost there.
People are not the largest consumer of paid art. Corporations are, and corporations buy "art" based on price, not quality. This article puts a positive spin on AI Art, but the numbers themselves show a terrifying trend. What the numbers on this website don't show is how much less money will be going to artists.


So no, all you demonstrated (yet again) is that AI will displace mediocre artists while those of us with taste will only buy AI art if it is more pleasing than great human art, which we all agree is unlikely.
Taste? Really? Have you not seen some of the horrible advertising art that companies have paid for over the years? AI just allows them to pay less for the same product. I am not talking about masterpieces. I am talking about everyday art. Let's face it. It is unlikely any of us are likely to be capable of creating a masterpiece. Let's face it. Most of us can afford masterpieces anyhow. That is why we have reproductions or photos on the actual art. These are not art, they are copies of art, so best left out of this discussion. 90% of the people I know, with the exception of some of my wealthier friends who use art as an investment, don't buy art at all. They may buy it indirectly, such as in a Traveller book, but 90% of them have never bought a piece of art in their lives. Every single business that I have ever seen has purchased art for advertising, for logos, etc.

So again, businesses make purchases based on cost analysis, and AI will always be cheaper. So, most of the commercial art market just goes away. Where do your human artists go then to sell their art?
This whole conversation is prolonged by three people saying “oh god ai art is terrible and all the artists will starve” while failing to grasp the huge logical fallacy in that argument.
It has already been demonstrated that there is no logical fallacy and continuing to claim so is disingenuous. You are the only one who seems to think this fallacy exists.
 
4GNGXvIq1KTf77bxDqoWPocKA-cuT2_P-6-FwEHwlpty3JwT2g4_73dPS2Ys7vLr70s=w526-h296-rw


Speaking of investments.
 
...
This whole conversation is prolonged by three people saying “oh god ai art is terrible and all the artists will starve” while failing to grasp the huge logical fallacy in that argument.
...
There is no logical fallacy. There is a knowledge of human/corporate behavior when not constrained by a code of ethics.
The behavior of the large number of people who still get all of their information from state influenced main stream media proves the point perfectly.
When bombarded with lies, they will repeat the lies instead of making the effort to find the truth. When drowning in AI media, they will not take the time to find REAL art, whether in print, video or still images. And in both cases, Humanity suffers for it.
 
There is no logical fallacy. There is a knowledge of human/corporate behavior when not constrained by a code of ethics.
The behavior of the large number of people who still get all of their information from state influenced main stream media proves the point perfectly.
When bombarded with lies, they will repeat the lies instead of making the effort to find the truth. When drowning in AI media, they will not take the time to find REAL art, whether in print, video or still images.
Alright, Alex. Do you have some vitamin supplements to sell, as well?

Anyway, since there is no chance of either party convincing the other side, I’ll close out with the classic lines of wisdom:

Better drowned than duffers.
If not duffers, won’t drown.
 
As in Jones? Never watch him.
I am not a tin hatter.
But if you haven't been paying attention, every single issue that the left has claimed to be a "conspiracy theory" over the last decade has become documented fact.
It is to the point that conspiracy theory now means "Crimes known to have been committed by leftists."
A "Debunked Conspiracy Theory means "a Conspiracy Theory in which the perpetrator has denied the allegations and their allies are blocking any meaningful investigation into the matter."
I am a student of history and human behavior, and the globalists prove time and time again that they think that both "A Brave New World" and "1984" are legitimate blueprints for our future.
It is natural for the young to be optimistic and attribute everything with the best of intentions.
It is incumbent on those, who have been around the block and burned by the previous round of good intentions, to warn others. Even if the warnings fall on deaf ears.

As to vitamin supplements, Zinc, Selenium and D3. Fairly inexpensive as such things go. One a day normally. Max of one D3, Max of two Zinc (morning and night) and a Max of six Selenium spread across the day. Around someone with symptoms, two selenium. With symptoms, three spread between morning, noon and night. Worse symptoms = more Selenium up to the max of two at breakfast, lunch and supper.
Diseases leach Zinc and Selenium in order to disable your immune system. D3 aids in absorption and function. If you work outside, you probably make enough D3. Note that those do not preclude or replace medical attention.
 
Last edited:
People are not the largest consumer of paid art. Corporations are, and corporations buy "art" based on price, not quality. This article puts a positive spin on AI Art, but the numbers themselves show a terrifying trend. What the numbers on this website don't show is how much less money will be going to artists.
So the largest consumer of art is treating it as a commodity. That infers that most artists are not a actually producing an important societal impact they are just producing feedstock for corporate greed. I think that makes them less "special" not more so.
Taste? Really? Have you not seen some of the horrible advertising art that companies have paid for over the years? AI just allows them to pay less for the same product. I am not talking about masterpieces. I am talking about everyday art. Let's face it. It is unlikely any of us are likely to be capable of creating a masterpiece. Let's face it. Most of us can afford masterpieces anyhow. That is why we have reproductions or photos on the actual art. These are not art, they are copies of art, so best left out of this discussion.
So you assert that the majority of Art that companies have paid for (and by your argument above the majority of art overall) is not worthy of the name "Art" and presumably those that produced it are simply hacks. So also no more worthy of protection than the switchboard operators, welders, typist and all those other employees who have been replaced by automation over the years.
90% of the people I know, with the exception of some of my wealthier friends who use art as an investment, don't buy art at all. They may buy it indirectly, such as in a Traveller book, but 90% of them have never bought a piece of art in their lives. Every single business that I have ever seen has purchased art for advertising, for logos, etc.
Art as an investment or art to serve a commercial function. So again art as a commodity.
So again, businesses make purchases based on cost analysis, and AI will always be cheaper. So, most of the commercial art market just goes away. Where do your human artists go then to sell their art?
The truly great portrait art, such as that hung in galleries was commissioned by private individuals as a boast or as self aggrandisement. The artist was held to a high standard and even the good ones were rarely wealthy as at the time their art was just another product, but at least there was craftsmanship. If the art displeased the patron it would be rejected and it would often end up being painted over as the artist couldn't afford to have such custom stock hanging around (and it is hardly good advertising to other patrons to have a lot of rejected work on show).

The artist starving in a garret was a trope for a reason. They made art because it was a calling not a profession. the non-commissioned works were acts of love and might never be sold in their lifetime or sold for a pittance to someone who "got it" and that is why their art is revered. They were craftsmen as well as they had to execute well. They even made their own paint. Now anyone who doesn't want a mundane job can call themselves an artist, live off the state while they "find their muse" and churn out poorly executed tat with mass produced materials and claim that the "public just don't understand my art". They will bemoan more successful artists as having sold out. They might convince a public funded organisation to take some of their work, but that is only because some pseud in the council feels art is "important" without having the faintest clue what good art is or what the point of publicly funding art is. Much of the public funded art lasts as long as the next administration and then goes into storage or is disposed of. Regularly, publicly commissioned art is hated by the public who ultimately actually paid for it (and would rather the money had been spent on a library). We have a national art centre in our town and this regularly has exhibitions. Many are fascinating but frequently these are utter dross. I saw an article recently about an artist recently whose performance art was cutting a loaf of bread but persisting for 12 hours until they cut through the table as well as a statement about perseverance and "the divisions in society". I hear "it is a conversation piece" and the conversation is usually "WTF". There are a lot of people faking it.

I know far to many "artists" who are basically unemployed but prefer to pretend they are special than just get the crap job many others of us had to before we found our place in the world. I know a fabric artist whose sewing is worse than mine. I was shown a lamp by a friend of the artist that was a fine idea and looked good at a distance but close up was bodged together from milliput and old fluorescent lamps, poorly executed, painted and electrically dubious. There are those who would say "but you can see the hand of the artist in it". This lamp was a limited run of 10, so not even unique, he had a good idea and then churned them out to cash in on them. I would say he sold out. My blood boils when I see beautifully crafted old hand tools and those with elegant functional design hacked up and bodge welded together into ugly lamps or sculpture and offered up in craft fairs as "art" pieces. These people might have had an artist eye and if they focussed on acquiring the craft skills to execute it properly they might even be worthy of the name artist. Maybe allowing AI to do the manual bit for them could make them appreciated as they can focus on the bit they can do well.

Then there are those who don't even have the artists eye, but some how have managed to delude themselves they are artists. I do not give a rats a%$ if those "artists" go to the wall. They should have been shaken out of their delusion long ago. Ultimately they will learn the truth and regret the time they wasted trying to be something they are not. For them AI art is a blessing as it may force them to find their true niche and a more stable source of income.
It has already been demonstrated that there is no logical fallacy and continuing to claim so is disingenuous. You are the only one who seems to think this fallacy exists.
Not to me it hasn't. He is not the only one.

Art needs to be protected from philistines, sadly many of those philistines are the pseudo artists filling up the world with their junk. Creative AI is a waste of energy, but at least it is not a waste of a human life.
 
Last edited:
I would put the AI "artist" on the same rung as the doofus cutting the table, and show them the same level of contempt. Both are hucksters.
 
As far as I am aware, there is no law against saying that "AI Art" is human-created art. So why can't people just lie?
That would be mis-selling in the UK, misrepresentation in most legal systems or at the very least false advertising.

If a particular legal system is not capable of (or willing to) enforce descriptive standards in trade (like say China) that then it won't be enforcing any other labelling regulation either and the notion of "marking" art as AI and consumer choice is foiled.

If you cannot enforce labelling of AI art, then it seems unlikely you would be able to ban it either. It will always exist, the genie is out of the bottle. Your best plan is to educate a discerning customer base and you cannot really do that without examples of the thing you are trying to wean them off.

All this presuming you even have the moral right to cancel another's creative efforts. Why stop at AI, "I" don't like abstract art as it detracts from the "proper stuff" we should ban that too. Oh an Jazz as well, bloody hipsters. Frankly Picasso was a bit suspect, so maybe we should include surrealism... etc.
 
That would be mis-selling in the UK, misrepresentation in most legal systems or at the very least false advertising.
In the US if you SOLD something it would be criminal fraud. Jail time. Criminal fraud in the USA is any deceptive scheme to obtain money or property through false pretenses, prosecuted by the government and punishable by fines or imprisonment.
 
The defence being that the human used the AI as a TOOL for creating the art, without the human there would have been none and therefore it qualifies as human created. The TOOL being AI they will say is no different than a paint brush, a word processor or hammer and chisel for creating art.

They might win on that grounds. Especially if they are wealthy.
 
Back
Top