Traveller Ringworld / Known Space

A comment on another thread resurrected the idea, for me, of setting Traveller in Larry Niven's Known Space, the setting for his Ringworld quadrilogy.

Basically, for those unfamiliar with Nivenspace, Known Space is set along a kind of a timeline extending from now to about the middle of the 30th Century or so. You're probably familiar with the whole general idea: Mankind has conquered space, heading out to found colonies on exotic worlds first in sublight generation ships and, later, on FTL vessels.

What makes Nivenspace unique are all its strange, strange creatures and its signature technologies.

The Thrintun - overwhelmingly powerful psions with an irresistible psionic mind control power, they died out about 1.5 billion years ago, but not before seeding several worlds with food algae, including Earth.

The Tnuctip - biological engineers who died out at the same time as the Thrintun, developers of Sunflowers, stage trees and Bandersnatchi, as well as Slaver stasis fields, disintegrators and soft weapons. All of them traps.

The Kzinti - a vicious, carnivorous feline race predicated on honour, with strict gender divides (sound familiar? Now think of the Aslan if the females were non-sentient ... or were only pretending to be non-sentient ...)

Puppeteers - herdlike triped herbivores with two one-eyed heads mounted on long necks, their mouths making their heads look like sock puppets. Puppetters ran General Products, a company which supplied GP hull ships. The location of their homeworld is a mystery until the novel Ringworld.

Protectors - Really strong, tough and fast (3d6 to Strength, Dexterity, Endurance, natural armour); really smart (4d6 to Intelligence, Education); strong senses (sight, hearing, touch, most particularly smell). Creatures which were humanoid, but transformed when they ate a herb known as Tree-of-Life. Originally from a homeworld close to the galactic core, some three million years or so ago a colony of Pak arrived on Earth. Their Protectors died out, but the hominids survived, mutated, turned into us.

I think I'd prefer the setting to focus not on the Ringworld, but rather on Known Space. Several eras are covered: the ARM period, centered around Earth a century from now, where interstellar space exploration is still in its infancy; the Man-Kzin Wars period, characterised by the arrival of the Outsiders and the sale of hyperdrive to the humans; and of course, the post - Man-Kzin Wars period of comparative prosperity, the time of Carlos Wu and Beowulf Shaeffer - culminating in the time of Louis Wu, the evacuation of the Puppeteers and the discovery of the Ringworld.

What do you think. Nivenspace as a Traveller property? Does that have a nice ring to it?
 
alex_greene said:
What do you think. Nivenspace as a Traveller property? Does that have a nice ring to it?
I would love it, I still play the old BRP Ringworld RPG now and then, and
a Traveller version of this setting would indeed be nice.

However, it could be somewhat difficult to adapt Traveller to the Known
Space universe. Characters who are several hundred years old, quan-
tum drives, general products hulls ... not an easy task, I think.

Besides, the license could be difficult to get. For Chaosium this became
a nightmare, and if the same people still control the license, Mongoose
would do well to forget the idea.
 
I would think RPG rights have probably reverted to Larry by now - Chaosium never really pushed it much, and you usually need to show some sort of product or development for rights to be kept valid (depending on the contract).

There was a Ringworld computer game a few years ago that might indicate general gaming rights had passed on. But it's also possible the RPG and computer game rights are seperate properties.
 
rinku said:
I would think RPG rights have probably reverted to Larry by now - Chaosium never really pushed it much ...
As far as I know, it was a bit more complicated back then.

The rights were held by Niven's agent, not by himself, and the agent with-
drew the license almost immediately after Chaosium had started to pro-
duce the roleplaying game, so Chaosium had to destroy most of the al-
ready produced material and was unable to publish the already almost
finished follow up material.

The sad part is that Niven himself had no problem with Chaosium, he even
offered the author of the game to work with him on some later Ringworld
stuff. The problem was the agent, who probably wanted to earn more mo-
ney by selling the license to someone willing to pay more.

This happened a long time ago, and the situation may well have changed
a lot by now, but after these events the interest in the Ringworld license
for a roleplaying game was down to zero ...
 
'Besides, the license could be difficult to get. For Chaosium this became
a nightmare, and if the same people still control the license, Mongoose
would do well to forget the idea.'


Do tell! I knew Chaosium didn't get very far with the setting but I hadn't heard they'd had trouble with the licensor. It doesn't surpirse me though. Some great licenses have been ruined because the licensor placed to many restrictions or was slow to respond etc., see Serenity.

Mike Cross
Terra/Sol Games
http://terrasolgames.com/
 
Ringworld would make a great "Meet and explore technology of the ancients" type of adventure. Maybe after a misjump that takes players from Third imperium known space to Ringworld known space. Other universe, parallell dimension or whatever. Finally meeting with the creators (cant remember what they were called) who can transport them back to their regular universe.
 
It'd be interesting to see how something like GP hulls affects ship design in a Traveller setting. You'd basically have about four set tonnages of vessel, rising exponentially from approximately Scout equivalent up to the higher reaches of capital ship size. The hulls would be highly expensive, but well worth it given their near-impregnability, as they'd give a ship a serious advantage against anything of equivalent size without such a hull.

You'd basically be looking at a ship with a Hull rating of nigh-infinite against anything other than antimatter warheads, so getting through and damaging internal systems would be near-impossible, though external systems like engines would still be vulnerable.
 
MarkB said:
It'd be interesting to see how something like GP hulls affects ship design in a Traveller setting. You'd basically have about four set tonnages of vessel, rising exponentially from approximately Scout equivalent up to the higher reaches of capital ship size. The hulls would be highly expensive, but well worth it given their near-impregnability, as they'd give a ship a serious advantage against anything of equivalent size without such a hull.

You'd basically be looking at a ship with a Hull rating of nigh-infinite against anything other than antimatter warheads, so getting through and damaging internal systems would be near-impossible, though external systems like engines would still be vulnerable.
Zero armour rating against visible light lasers, although masers, UV, X-ray and gamma-ray lasers would be blocked.

How about the structural strength of scrith?
 
alex_greene said:
How about the structural strength of scrith?

I'm working on "scrith" as the next step up from "bonded" types of hulls. Need to reread the series (been many years) to regain a feel for the material.

I think it would be a great setting for a campaign.
 
If I recall correctly, the first expedition to the Ringworld had a GP hull main vessel with wing structures 'bolted on' with the drive systems built into them -- so when the anti-meteor defence grid fired on them, it burnt off the wings.
End result: the GP hull (out of control) slammed into the Ringworld, tore a gash down to the scrith, but was essentially unhurt.
The crew were protected by a 'point defence' stasis device, both from the anti-meteor blast and the impact event.

These are more "plot device" than "cool tech toys", to be honest.
 
alex_greene said:
But did they translate it into Traveller terms? Hull, structure, armour points?

Closest I've seen" "Such an enormous mass spinning so quickly creates enormous structural stresses, and the builders in turn would need materials of insane tensile strength to hold the ring together. Larry Niven provided such a material in scrith, an ultra-tensile-strength material that is 50,000 times more resilient than the toughest steel alloy. The material seems to somehow tap into the strong nuclear force that binds the particles in atomic nuclei together, and extends it onto a macroscopic scale."
 
Nuclear Fridge Magnet said:
If I recall correctly, the first expedition to the Ringworld had a GP hull main vessel with wing structures 'bolted on' with the drive systems built into them -- so when the anti-meteor defence grid fired on them, it burnt off the wings.
End result: the GP hull (out of control) slammed into the Ringworld, tore a gash down to the scrith, but was essentially unhurt.
The crew were protected by a 'point defence' stasis device, both from the anti-meteor blast and the impact event.

These are more "plot device" than "cool tech toys", to be honest.
True enough, though all those technologies were well explored and established before they featured in the novel in question.

Mainly, the ship's design served as an illustration of the Puppeteer race's attitude to self-preservation. All the potentially-hazardous machinery like drives, weapons and fuel were on the outside of the impregnable hull, where they couldn't harm its occupants in the case of a malfunction.

I do think there's a degree of unexplored potential to such technology that could prove very hard to manage once in the hands of players. Any time you can start throwing around the words "impregnable" or "invulnerable" when referring to something mobile and flyable, it'll only be a matter of time before your players weaponise it.
 
There is a lot of technical information about the Ringworld, about Scrith
and all that in Chaosium's old Ringworld RPG. If you are interested in
such details, I would recommend to try to get a copy, although this is
probably not easy.
 
DFW,
This is one of the harder things to find out there. It was only published for a short while and not that many copies got sold. That and its age make it a pretty rare thing. I do have a copy however (which I guess shows my age!) and can attest to it being one of the better RPG sourcebooks especially for its time.

It would be nice if it came back as a PDF but there are probably copyright problems.

Mike Cross
Terra/Sol Games
http://terrasolgames.com
 
crossmlk said:
DFW,
This is one of the harder things to find out there. It was only published for a short while and not that many copies got sold. That and its age make it a pretty rare thing.

Yep, confirmed, no place to purchase. Just lots of entries to download in pdf form.
 
larryniven.net has a number of articles on the Ringworld's physics and materials.

There were also a lot of discussions about it on USENET back in the day, so a search there in the rec.arts.sf and sometimes in the sci.space areas may be fruitful if you filter the torrents (e.g. -torrent -ebook).
 
Found a friend who has a copy of it. Read through it. Not really any revelatory info on scrith that wasn't in the novels.
 
Back
Top