Traveller Developer's Pack

[Gruffty the Hiver]

1. The Fair Use policy covers "non-Mongoose Traveller editions." Does that include GURPS: Traveller? In general what editions does that cover/not cover? GDW is mentioned specifically but there have been a bunch of eds over time.

I think it just applies to GDW Traveller (i.e. CT, MT, TNE, and maybe T4) - I'd think that SJG (GT), Avenger (1248), and QLI (T20) would be a bit miffed to have someone else tell them how people can use their products.

Yeah my view on this is that this would only apply to CT/MT/TNE/T4 and not to the three other versions (GT/T20/HT).

 

[dmccoy1693]

The license has a lot of "GSL-like" restrictions

Just curious, but what parts of the license are you talking about exactly? The biggest difference between the GSL and d20STL is that it does the OGL and d20STL in one license, so if you did not want to use the d20STL (or were no longer permitted to use it) you could always publish the exact same product using the OGL alone. The OGL was the safe harbor, the d20STL required that certain things were given up (chargen info, decency standards, etc) in exchange for having the Logo. Contrast that with the GSL which, if you are no longer permitted to use it, you and every product you made under that license are screwed.

The TLL does the same and is far closer to the d20STL. It has restrictions similar to d20STL. It operates similar to the d20STL. And it grants benefits similar to the d20STL. And if all else fails, you can still make the exact same product with the OGL.

 

[mxyzplk]

Won't argue the point except there is no more d20STL. Therefore, "GSL."

 

[dmccoy1693]

Won't argue the point except there is no more d20STL. Therefore, "GSL."

*confused* that kind of sounds to me like "We have no more apples to compare it to so now we're going to use oranges as our basis for comparison."

I'd recommend comparing it with the RuneQuest Logo License or True20 STL or the Grey Goose Fudge License before the GSL.

 

[d.b.gamedesign]

2. Original Traveller Universe material produced under this licence may only be made with direct respect to the Foreven Sector. References to other sectors and areas of the Original Traveller Universe may be made, but only in direct relation to the Foreven Sector.

For example, you can produce material that describes what the Zhodani are doing within the Foreven Sector, but you cannot describe changes to the Zhodani central government. You could describe someone as being born within District 268, but you cannot create a new planet or town within district 268 he hailed from.

This is best summarised as;

You are free to reference any Original Traveller Universe material you wish, and you may create new material based on this so long as the new material is set in the Foreven Sector.

You cannot produce anything that changes or creates Original Traveller Universe material outside of the Foreven Sector.

I can say my new ship is licensed to be built by Ling Standard Product, but i can't say its designed by Ling Standard Products?

Am i understanding this correctly?

 

[mxyzplk]

So are we really not getting a clarification of what Traveller versions are covered with these licenses? That's pretty fundamental.

 

[MongooseMatt]

1. The Fair Use policy covers "non-Mongoose Traveller editions." Does that include GURPS: Traveller? In general what editions does that cover/not cover? GDW is mentioned specifically but there have been a bunch of eds over time.

The FUP specifically mentions GURPS Traveller, T-20, etc. All non-Mongoose Travellers fall under the FUP.

2. Do you have to use the Traveller Logo License to publish anything using the MonTrav rules? No, right, since those are OGL - as long as you just use the SRD you can do anything with that, but if you want to use Traveller logo you need that license? The license has a lot of "GSL-like" restrictions, it's odd that it's only for the logo (you can't even emulate trade dress). What's the intended use of that?

If you want an official looking product, complete with logo, you need to use the logo licence. If you don't, we are not going to bust down your door (you can still use the OGL).

3. In terms of the Fair Use and other policies - is it still noncommercial as far as you're concerned if there's ads on your Web pages? I ask because White Wolf's lameo site policy says there can't be ads anywhere (a problem, when many people are using free blogs/Web hosts that post the ads themselves).

At this time, yes, it would still be regarded as non-commercial (though we'll keep an eye on this).

 

[MongooseMatt]

I can say my new ship is licensed to be built by Ling Standard Product, but i can't say its designed by Ling Standard Products?

Am i understanding this correctly?

There is nothing stated that precludes you from saying that your ship was designed by Ling Standard in their Foreven office. . .

 

[EDG]

The FUP specifically mentions GURPS Traveller, T-20, etc. All non-Mongoose Travellers fall under the FUP.

Where? All I found in the FFE Fair Use Policy 2008 document (at least the copy I have, which was downloaded when you first published the final version of the Developer's Pack) was this:

Fair Use Explicitly Applies to non-Mongoose Traveller editions.

There was no mention of GURPS Traveller or T20 in the FUP. And that passage doesn't specify all non-MGT editions. In fact the implication from the rest of the document is that the FUP only applies to stuff that was published by GDW.

I suppose I could check directly with SJG to see what they know of this, but I suspect that might result in them asking Marc WTF he's thinking by telling people how they can use or copy SJG products - particularly since SJG has a special arrangement outside all this "sunsetting".

 

[MongooseMatt]

There was no mention of GURPS Traveller or T20 in the FUP. And that passage doesn't specify all non-MGT editions. In fact the implication from the rest of the document is that the FUP only applies to stuff that was published by GDW.

I suppose I could check directly with SJG to see what they know of this, but I suspect that might result in them asking Marc WTF he's thinking by telling people how they can use or copy SJG products - particularly since SJG has a special arrangement outside all this "sunsetting".

They are non-Mongoose editions, and thus the FUP applies.

I can't be clearer than that A new FUP will be uploaded this afternoon that makes this black and white.

 

[EDG]

I can't be clearer than that A new FUP will be uploaded this afternoon that makes this black and white.

Well, you clearly can be clearer, since the FUP lacks that crucial "all" bit. And the documents themselves do need to be as unambiguous as possible - your comments on this board may not be around forever for people to refer to after all.

But thanks for clarifying the document.

 

[RedBeardSean]

Okay, this comes under the heading of "dumb questions." Why is the Open Game License at the end of the Traveller SRD the Wizards of the Coasts' OGL? Since MGT is neither D20 nor a Wizards' product, is this appropriate?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay, this comes under the heading of "dumb questions." Why is the Open Game License at the end of the Traveller SRD the Wizards of the Coasts' OGL? Since MGT is neither D20 nor a Wizards' product, is this appropriate?

It works. And if it ain't broke. . .

 

[Duroon]

Okay, this comes under the heading of "dumb questions." Why is the Open Game License at the end of the Traveller SRD the Wizards of the Coasts' OGL? Since MGT is neither D20 nor a Wizards' product, is this appropriate?

Because WOTC is the owner of the OGL, you would have to rewrite the OGL completely and give it a new name (other than Open Gameing License) to use a differant one. Think of the OGL as WOTC's gift to the gaming community.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Okay, this comes under the heading of "dumb questions." Why is the Open Game License at the end of the Traveller SRD the Wizards of the Coasts' OGL? Since MGT is neither D20 nor a Wizards' product, is this appropriate?

Because WOTC is the owner of the OGL, you would have to rewrite the OGL completely and give it a new name (other than Open Gameing License) to use a differant one. Think of the OGL as WOTC's gift to the gaming community.

To expound, the OGL is a known quantity in the gaming community among established writers and publishers. The OGL is a quality license that offers protection to both companies giving away open content and those wishing to use that open content (you don't want anyone else using it, don't give it away, simple as that). It allows additional licenses to be placed ontop of it (i.e. d20 System Trademark License, Traveller Logo License, etc). It allows for the creation of whole new games. Wizards happens to be the one that wrote it so they get their name on it.

Some believe, myself among them, that the OGL is perfect and would like to keep using it for as long as we work with games. I'd guess that Mongoose shares my view (which makes me happy).

 

[Tipsy]

Ok, so here is a dumb question that I'm fairly certain I know the answer to, but feel compelled to ask anyways:

If I'm fleshing out the political and criminal lay of the land for an existing OTU sector for my group and want to post it on my website I would be in violation of the new policies?

And this would be true regardless of whether or not my website is commercial, right?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Ok, so here is a dumb question that I'm fairly certain I know the answer to, but feel compelled to ask anyways:

If I'm fleshing out the political and criminal lay of the land for an existing OTU sector for my group and want to post it on my website I would be in violation of the new policies?

And this would be true regardless of whether or not my website is commercial, right?

If its for any non-Mongoose Traveller edition, I believe you should be fine. If you want it to to use MGT, you can either a) remove the OTU specific stuff or B) Set it in Foreven Sector (See FFSLL).

Disclaimer: IANAL.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Under the FUP, you would be OK with posting it on your website provided it was completely non-commecial. So you can't charge people to download stuff.

Apparently having commercials on your website (which most have nowadays) is OK, but will be watched by Mongoose.

FREE is almost always OK.

 

[RedBeardSean]

To expound, the OGL is a known quantity in the gaming community among established writers and publishers. The OGL is a quality license that offers protection to both companies giving away open content and those wishing to use that open content (you don't want anyone else using it, don't give it away, simple as that). It allows additional licenses to be placed ontop of it (i.e. d20 System Trademark License, Traveller Logo License, etc). It allows for the creation of whole new games. Wizards happens to be the one that wrote it so they get their name on it.

Some believe, myself among them, that the OGL is perfect and would like to keep using it for as long as we work with games. I'd guess that Mongoose shares my view (which makes me happy).

Ah, I had thought that the license as written applied only to WotC's IP, and games based upon their IP, and that any other company declaring their content open would have to write one of their own. I take it that not only have I been wrong in this regard, but that the OGL crosses the pond, as well.

 

[Tipsy]

Ok, so here is a dumb question that I'm fairly certain I know the answer to, but feel compelled to ask anyways:

If I'm fleshing out the political and criminal lay of the land for an existing OTU sector for my group and want to post it on my website I would be in violation of the new policies?

And this would be true regardless of whether or not my website is commercial, right?

If its for any non-Mongoose Traveller edition, I believe you should be fine. If you want it to to use MGT, you can either a) remove the OTU specific stuff or B) Set it in Foreven Sector (See FFSLL).

Disclaimer: IANAL.

Ok, is this true for setting info as well?

I mean if I have no intention of putting up any stats or rule info can I pretend its for CT?

I was under the impression that any fluff meant to exist in a personalized version of the OTU had to be set in Foreven Sector.