I'm not sure how much the Fair Use Policy should apply to SJG or QLI or Avenger Traveller material. It seems a bit off to me for Mongoose or FFE to tell other companies how much that they should be allowing people to copy/reproduce their stuff - have they agreed to (or are they even aware of) this clause?
Traveller Developer's Pack Draft
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
Deleted.
dmccoy1693 said:
That's what I figured too... And knowing SJG, I really doubt that they'd be keen on being told what people can do with their IP. (also technically no version of traveller is "out of print" (in the sense of being unavailable anyway), since it's all still avaiable on DTRPG).
But while I realise you're trying to help here, I'd really much rather have Matt answer these questions definitively because he knows what's really going on.
dmccoy1693 said:
QLI may disagree. That FAQ looks fairly familiar. You might also take note of the date.
Also note, the FUP specifically states "Fair Use Explicitly Applies to non- Mongoose Traveller editions." That sounds pretty unambiguous about Marc's intentions toward his IP including licensed derivative works.
It would be nice to see an FFE statement to clear this up though.
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
EDG said:
Fair enough. Answer deleted.
Flynn said:
The "d66" method of rolling dice is known around here as "APBA dice" because it is used in the APBA line of sports board games, and has been since 1951..and before that in the game that inspired APBA, "National Pastime", whose patent is long expired. Its basically percentile dice with d6's instead of d10's.
Allen
d.b.gamedesign
Mongoose
In the Foreven Sector Guide the map is illegible, but says a 300 dpi editable map is available as "ForevenSector.jpg".
Where do I download that at?
Where do I download that at?
d.b.gamedesign said:
It will be included in the Pack when it goes live.
d.b.gamedesign
Mongoose
Ah, cool.msprange said:
So here's a possibly odd question:
If someone wanted to publish anything involving the Foreven sector, do they have to release it under the Foreven Free Sector License? Or can it be released for free under Fair Use?
(and yes, I know there'd be little point in doing so, but I'm just curious to know if Foreven is limited to the FSL only).
If someone wanted to publish anything involving the Foreven sector, do they have to release it under the Foreven Free Sector License? Or can it be released for free under Fair Use?
(and yes, I know there'd be little point in doing so, but I'm just curious to know if Foreven is limited to the FSL only).
Clarifying the Read Me First document.
The Read Me First document at least seems very contradictory. Can I get some clarification on the following points please?
Option 1 is pretty clear - if we want to non-commercially publish material for an older version of Traveller, then it's releasable under the FUP. Though interestingly enough, the FUP doesn't specifically mention the OTU at all - so does the FUP cover OTU material? If so, this should probably be explicitly mentioned here.
So if we want to publish original material for the current Traveller rules, then the TLL is required. However, OTU material is specifically excluded from this in the TLL itself - given that the readme is supposed to direct people to whatever is the appropriate option for them, this exemption should probably be mentioned explicitly here.
Also, when you say "current Traveller Rules" it's clear from the TLL that you specifically mean Mongoose Traveller. From the readme though, it could equally mean GURPS Traveller, or any other version of the game still actively being published at the time the license is read. So perhaps MGT should be specified here in the readme too.
This option seems unclear in the readme. It seems that this should only apply to OTU material being produced specifically for Mongoose Traveller, shouldn't it? After all, if one is producing and publishing material based in the OTU for an older version of Traveller then it should be already covered under the FUP and not the Foreven FSL, right?
Further confusion arises given that you later specify this in the readme:
This specifies that if material is released in any form to the public (whether free or not), then it still counts as "published". So option 1 says that we can publish OTU material non-commercially under the FUP for older versions of Traveller, but option 3 says that we can't because if we publish material for the OTU then it doesn't matter whether it's free or not - it has to be under the Foreven FSL. This is contradictory.
To muddy the waters even more, I notice this at the end of the readme:
The two statements I highlighted in bold here are contradictory. Can we or can we not publish material commercially using the Foreven FSL?
The last sentence (in italics) is very strange though - are you really saying that we can commercially publish OTU material (apparently without any license at all) so long as it is completely system-free? And are you suggesting that systemless OTU material can be commercially published using the TLL (remember, in the TLL you explicitly say that OTU material can't be mentioned if the TLL is used).
I think that what you're actually saying here is:
1) We can continue to publish material (including OTU-based material set anywhere outside Foreven sector) for older versions of Traveller under the FUP so long as it is released for free/non-commercially.
2) We can (commercially or non-commercially) publish original non-OTU material for Mongoose Traveller under the TLL only.
3) The only way that OTU-based material (commercially or non-commercially) can be published specifically for Mongoose Traveller is under the Foreven FSL, which states that it must be set in Foreven sector.
Would this be correct?
The Read Me First document at least seems very contradictory. Can I get some clarification on the following points please?
Option 1 said:
Option 1 is pretty clear - if we want to non-commercially publish material for an older version of Traveller, then it's releasable under the FUP. Though interestingly enough, the FUP doesn't specifically mention the OTU at all - so does the FUP cover OTU material? If so, this should probably be explicitly mentioned here.
Option 2 said:
So if we want to publish original material for the current Traveller rules, then the TLL is required. However, OTU material is specifically excluded from this in the TLL itself - given that the readme is supposed to direct people to whatever is the appropriate option for them, this exemption should probably be mentioned explicitly here.
Also, when you say "current Traveller Rules" it's clear from the TLL that you specifically mean Mongoose Traveller. From the readme though, it could equally mean GURPS Traveller, or any other version of the game still actively being published at the time the license is read. So perhaps MGT should be specified here in the readme too.
Option 3 said:
This option seems unclear in the readme. It seems that this should only apply to OTU material being produced specifically for Mongoose Traveller, shouldn't it? After all, if one is producing and publishing material based in the OTU for an older version of Traveller then it should be already covered under the FUP and not the Foreven FSL, right?
Further confusion arises given that you later specify this in the readme:
This specifies that if material is released in any form to the public (whether free or not), then it still counts as "published". So option 1 says that we can publish OTU material non-commercially under the FUP for older versions of Traveller, but option 3 says that we can't because if we publish material for the OTU then it doesn't matter whether it's free or not - it has to be under the Foreven FSL. This is contradictory.
To muddy the waters even more, I notice this at the end of the readme:
The two statements I highlighted in bold here are contradictory. Can we or can we not publish material commercially using the Foreven FSL?
The last sentence (in italics) is very strange though - are you really saying that we can commercially publish OTU material (apparently without any license at all) so long as it is completely system-free? And are you suggesting that systemless OTU material can be commercially published using the TLL (remember, in the TLL you explicitly say that OTU material can't be mentioned if the TLL is used).
I think that what you're actually saying here is:
1) We can continue to publish material (including OTU-based material set anywhere outside Foreven sector) for older versions of Traveller under the FUP so long as it is released for free/non-commercially.
2) We can (commercially or non-commercially) publish original non-OTU material for Mongoose Traveller under the TLL only.
3) The only way that OTU-based material (commercially or non-commercially) can be published specifically for Mongoose Traveller is under the Foreven FSL, which states that it must be set in Foreven sector.
Would this be correct?
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
Agree with EDG. The crux of my confusion arises from the presence of Option 3, and it seems to be in contradiction to Option 1. My basic question is, if I publish non-commercial material using out-of-print Traveller rules, must it be in Foreven or not?
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
If I understand how the three licenses are supposed to work, I think it is this:
The FFSLL gives you the OTU for commericial publication but it must be systemless.
The TLL gives you the MGT rules for commerial publication but it cannot include any OTU stuff (OGL stuff).
The FUP gives you previous rules editions and the OTU, but it must be non-commericial.
To publish MGT rules in the OTU you need a separate and special license from Mongoose (currently only Avenger has this).
Did I get it right?
The FFSLL gives you the OTU for commericial publication but it must be systemless.
The TLL gives you the MGT rules for commerial publication but it cannot include any OTU stuff (OGL stuff).
The FUP gives you previous rules editions and the OTU, but it must be non-commericial.
To publish MGT rules in the OTU you need a separate and special license from Mongoose (currently only Avenger has this).
Did I get it right?
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
That's not how I understand what is actually said in the draft - it looks to me like the FFSLL lets you publish commercially in the OTU using the Mongoose rules only, and within Foreven and nowhere else.
That's what I think too (on both counts).
I think that to commercially publish anywhere else in the OTU that isn't Foreven requires a separate and special license from Mongoose (like the one Avenger has).
Matt - I think all of this is really unclear. Can we get some clarifications please? While you've been making reassuring noises in your own posts, they don't seem to tally with what the documents say, and those are what matters. These are legal documents that you're expecting people to understand and follow, and I think they need to be a lot less ambiguous and more clearly and explictly phrased.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I think you are right EDG about the FFSLL. You should be able to use MGT rules and this license and publish it commercially. My bad.
I have several questions about what can and can't be done for "semi-pro" Traveller material (i.e. PDF only, for sale via web site sort of thing) using either the Traveller or the Foreven licenses.
Actually, I have one question, that being can I publish a fully detailed world based on the tables in the Traveller Main Book.
This breaks down into several parts not fully covered in the developers pack, because some, but not all, of the tables needed are in the Traveller SRD.
First issue: Animals. Can I create one or more fully filled out "Rural Encounter Table" for the world? i.e. a 2d6 table, where instead of 2 being "Scavenger" it has a species name, which is detailed some place else in the document? The tables on Page 70, TMB would not be reproduced, just the mechanical effects of them. The primary issue here is the actual Rural encounter table isn't in the SRD.
Second Issue: Government types. Can the name of the government type of a given level be used (i.e. if I have a world with a government digit of 4 can I say "Exampli is a Representative Democracy"?)
Third Issue: Cultural tweaks/Differences: Can the short names of the table on page 177 be used?
Fourth Issue: Law level. (This more effects item 12 of the TLL version 1c than any thing else, or possibly my reading of it) Can I have differing law levels for each of the types banned items, with the UWP law level digit being an average or baseline? (i.e. While the Law Level on Exampli is 4 for most things, the strong history of free press here means that Law Level for Information is 0. On the other hand, Exampli has rather draconian drug laws, and should be treated as Law Level 7 for drugs)
5th issue: Trade goods and Trade codes. Can I say "Exampli is a Garden world, and as such, in addition to the common trade goods Live Animals, Luxury Consumables, Spices and Wood may be bought here". Expanding on this point, can pre-calculated base line purchase and sale prices be published?
6th issue: NPC. Can I use NPC stat blocks similar to those on page 84 of TMB, to include weapon damage and career paths other than scouts and those listed in the draft table? (The weapon descriptions, but not the weapon tables are in the SRD)
Actually, I have one question, that being can I publish a fully detailed world based on the tables in the Traveller Main Book.
This breaks down into several parts not fully covered in the developers pack, because some, but not all, of the tables needed are in the Traveller SRD.
First issue: Animals. Can I create one or more fully filled out "Rural Encounter Table" for the world? i.e. a 2d6 table, where instead of 2 being "Scavenger" it has a species name, which is detailed some place else in the document? The tables on Page 70, TMB would not be reproduced, just the mechanical effects of them. The primary issue here is the actual Rural encounter table isn't in the SRD.
Second Issue: Government types. Can the name of the government type of a given level be used (i.e. if I have a world with a government digit of 4 can I say "Exampli is a Representative Democracy"?)
Third Issue: Cultural tweaks/Differences: Can the short names of the table on page 177 be used?
Fourth Issue: Law level. (This more effects item 12 of the TLL version 1c than any thing else, or possibly my reading of it) Can I have differing law levels for each of the types banned items, with the UWP law level digit being an average or baseline? (i.e. While the Law Level on Exampli is 4 for most things, the strong history of free press here means that Law Level for Information is 0. On the other hand, Exampli has rather draconian drug laws, and should be treated as Law Level 7 for drugs)
5th issue: Trade goods and Trade codes. Can I say "Exampli is a Garden world, and as such, in addition to the common trade goods Live Animals, Luxury Consumables, Spices and Wood may be bought here". Expanding on this point, can pre-calculated base line purchase and sale prices be published?
6th issue: NPC. Can I use NPC stat blocks similar to those on page 84 of TMB, to include weapon damage and career paths other than scouts and those listed in the draft table? (The weapon descriptions, but not the weapon tables are in the SRD)
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
MLOONEY:
I think you are covered by the OGL and TTL for what you want to do.
However, if you want to detail it within the OTU (ie, call it part of the Third Impeirum and have it be the private reserve of Duke Norris) then you have to put it in the Foreven Sector using the FFSLL.
I think you are covered by the OGL and TTL for what you want to do.
However, if you want to detail it within the OTU (ie, call it part of the Third Impeirum and have it be the private reserve of Duke Norris) then you have to put it in the Foreven Sector using the FFSLL.
Would I be interpreting this correctly.
If I wanted to publish non-commercially stuff on the Banners sector which is technically OTU nut would not be using Mongoose Rules that would be under the FUP?
What about commercial publication? I assume this would require a licence from someone, Mongoose if using their or the earlier rules? What about T5 if/when it is released. Would this have an effect on these licences?
Not looking at commercial publishing at this time of course but I am just getting more and more confused.
If I wanted to publish non-commercially stuff on the Banners sector which is technically OTU nut would not be using Mongoose Rules that would be under the FUP?
What about commercial publication? I assume this would require a licence from someone, Mongoose if using their or the earlier rules? What about T5 if/when it is released. Would this have an effect on these licences?
Not looking at commercial publishing at this time of course but I am just getting more and more confused.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Banners would be FUP as long as it was non-commercial and used an older rules system (not Mongooses).
If you wanted to sell it, you would need to relocate the data into the Foreven Sector or work something out with Matt.
If you wanted to sell it, you would need to relocate the data into the Foreven Sector or work something out with Matt.
