Traveller Developer's Pack Draft

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

I was going to circulate this between a few 'selected' people over the next few days, but this affects a great many people, so we have posted the draft of the Traveller Developer's Pack on the main Traveller page.

Please use this thread for any comments or suggestions. We'll monitor them throughout the week and, if all looks good, we'll go 'live' over the weekend.

Don't forget to read the Read Me first!

 

[dmccoy1693]

Thanks Matt,

Ok, I gave it a read and here are some questions/clarification requests:

1. I'm not sure how Section 16 (publishers cannot infringe on the IP of other publishers) interacts with Appendix 5 and 6 (publishers can use whatever they want from other publishers as long as they reference it). Could this be clarified as to how these work together, please? Is all material produced by through the FFSLL the equivilent of Open Content for other publishers using this license?

2. Appendix I 4, you can create your own universe with the Foreven Sector material. So can you create additional sectors around your Foreven Sector as long as those sectors are not named the same as OTU sectors? If so, would that violate the FFSLL? How would someone develop those sectors using this license?

3. Appendix I 6, The box belongs on every first page. Ok for printed/long PDFs, but short and micro PDFs are at a slight disadvantage. Their first page generally contains material as opposed to a long list of acknowledgements. Is it possible for products under 20 pages to have this box on the same page as the OGL?

4. How does this work with the OGL? Is the Traveller SRD required for this? (Just trying to help sow up a loop hole.)

 

[Vile]

For those of you who will have trouble finding it (that always happens), here it is:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/travdevpackdraft.zip

Been there, read that, probably got it all wrong, so here's my first question: I note that in the Foreven Sector Guide that most worlds outside the Zhodani Consulate are marked Na for "Non-aligned". However, the Traveller map (S9 and S11 Library Data, which I assume are part of that pre- 1105 canon) shows that there are two human client states in the region, too. Shouldn't the worlds in those parts of the sector be labelled Cs for "Client State"?

Yeah, pedantic, but c'mon - I've just barely finished my first read-through!

 

[dmccoy1693]

BTW, I just wanted to say Thank You for this. The FFSLL is well above and beyond the call of duty. I just wanted to say thank you for it. It is a very workable license.

 

[Vile]

I note that the SRD is still the same, and does not include alternative drive or powerplant technologies, nor the space opera or hard science world creation modifiers. You said in the past that you were considering adding these in - does this mean that you have decided against doing so?

Oh, the FFE Fair Use policy looks good, too. But then I'm reading way too fast, here. :wink:

 

[dmccoy1693]

I note that the SRD is still the same, and does not include alternative drive or powerplant technologies, nor the space opera or hard science world creation modifiers. You said in the past that you were considering adding these in - does this mean that you have decided against doing so?

My guess is that it simply has not been done yet. One thing at a time. Mercenary skills haven't been added either.

 

[Deniable]

OK, let's get the big one out of the way:

Can we get a confirmation that the existing FFE Fair Use Policy is the same as before, with the exception of Mongoose's version of Traveller?

That should handle the preemptive firefighting.

 

[EDG]

The 2008 FFE FUP says:

1. May I create my own, original works and put them
on a web or ftp site or share them with my friends?
Yes [...]

It also says:

The key word is non-commercial. If you are selling what you copy or reproduce, then you violate Fair Use.

Fair Use Explicitly Applies to non-Mongoose Traveller editions. The arrival of Mongoose Traveller does not prevent players and referees from using their other editions and supporting them. Mongoose Traveller is governed by the OGL and the TTL.

To be clear - by "original works" do you mean work that is set in the OTU or not?


However, the Foreven license says:

You are free to reference any Original Traveller Universe material you wish, and you may create new material based on this so long as the new material is set in the Foreven Sector.

You cannot produce anything that changes or creates Original Traveller Universe material outside of the Foreven Sector.

This seems to contradict the first section I quoted from the FUP.

This needs to be unambiguously and clearly answered: Are we or are we not still allowed to produce and publish new, original OTU material that is set outside of the Foreven sector under the Fair Use Policy so long as it is for older versions of the game and is released for free and non-commercially?

A secondary question would be: If it includes or references MGT rules and/or is designed for MGT, would this change the answer to the previous question?

Example: is it or is it not permissable for us to publish our own version of the Aldebaran or Dark Nebula OTU sectors on our own website or in a free, non-commercial magazine, so long as they just contains text, maps, and just CT UWPs?



I also note this in the Foreven license:

4. The Foreven Sector may not be ‘moved’ in the Original Traveller Universe. The Spinward Marches sector will always be Trailing, the Far Frontiers sector Spinward, The Beyond sector Rimward, and the Ziafrpilaris sector Coreward. However, you may optionally place the Foreven Sector in your own universe, or assume no other sectors border it.

This (and the Foreven Sector Guide) seems to confirm that we can't move the sector, and we're lumbered with its astrography and politics. In fact, it seems not much less restrictive than having to work from data in the Atlas of the Imperium in that at least the world locations and allegiences (and the existing canonical worlds) are fixed.

 

[dmccoy1693]

This is how I read it with regards to your questions (and this is only my opinion, nothing official):

This seems to contradict the first section I quoted from the FUP.

Not really. If you're using the FUP and only the FUP, you're making non-commercial material for non-MGT products. With it you can do whatever you want with anywhere in the OTU. The FFSLL comes into play when it is for MGT products.

This needs to be unambiguously and clearly answered: Are we or are we not still allowed to produce and publish new, original OTU material that is set outside of the Foreven sector under the Fair Use Policy so long as it is for older versions of the game and is released for free and non-commercially?

My read: yes. (Again, reemphasizing, I am not Mongoose and I am not a lawyer. So my answer is a guess, educated yes, but still a guess.)

A secondary question would be: If it includes or references MGT rules and/or is designed for MGT, would this change the answer to the previous question?

Yes. If it was for MGT, it would not fall under the FUP. Then you'd need to use the FFSLL.

Example: is it or is it not permissable for us to publish our own version of the Aldebaran or Dark Nebula OTU sectors on our own website or in a free, non-commercial magazine, so long as they just contains text, maps, and just CT UWPs?

If you're using MGT stats, no allowed. If you're using CT stats, allowed (as long as you stick with the FUP and follow what it says).

This (and the Foreven Sector Guide) seems to confirm that we can't move the sector, and we're lumbered with its astrography and politics. In fact, it seems not much less restrictive than having to work from data in the Atlas of the Imperium in that at least the world locations and allegiences (and the existing canonical worlds) are fixed.

The interior of Foreven is fixed if you want it to be fixed. If not, change what you will. Its location in the OTU is fixed, unless you're creating your own universe..

 

[EDG]

This is how I read it with regards to your questions (and this is only my opinion, nothing official):

Duly noted

Not really. If you're using the FUP and only the FUP, you're making non-commercial material for non-MGT products. With it you can do whatever you want with anywhere in the OTU. The FFSLL comes into play when it is for MGT products.

This is my interpretation too.

My read: yes. (Again, reemphasizing, I am not Mongoose and I am not a lawyer. So my answer is a guess, educated yes, but still a guess.)

[...]

Yes. If it was for MGT, it would not fall under the FUP. Then you'd need to use the FFSLL.

Again, that is what I would think too.

If you're using MGT stats, no allowed. If you're using CT stats, allowed (as long as you stick with the FUP and follow what it says).

What are MGT stats though? UWPs are mentioned in the MGT corebook, does that turn anything containing UWPs into something containing MGT stats? I wouldn't have assumed so at all - UWPs are CT stats.

If something just contains OTU setting info and no stats at all, then does that count as an MGT publication? Or does that come under the FUP?

 

[dmccoy1693]

What are MGT stats though? UWPs are mentioned in the MGT corebook, does that turn anything containing UWPs into something containing MGT stats? I wouldn't have assumed so at all - UWPs are CT stats.

Grey area, I'm not going to even guess.

If something just contains OTU setting info and no stats at all, then does that count as an MGT publication? Or does that come under the FUP?

I'd say its all in what you say its for. Allow me to grey the area even further, What if you say your statless product is for "Any Edition of Traveller."

Easy litmis test: Is it for sell: FFSLL. Its not a 100% full proof, but it obviously is close to the intent of the Developer's Pack.

 

[EDG]

Grey area, I'm not going to even guess.

I'd say its all in what you say its for. Allow me to grey the area even further, What if you say your statless product is for "Any Edition of Traveller."

I would say that Matt needs to clarify these grey areas here. We need an exact definition of "for Mongoose Traveller" and "for older versions of Traveller" so we know exactly where we stand.

 

[MongooseMatt]

1. I'm not sure how Section 16 (publishers cannot infringe on the IP of other publishers) interacts with Appendix 5 and 6 (publishers can use whatever they want from other publishers as long as they reference it). Could this be clarified as to how these work together, please? Is all material produced by through the FFSLL the equivilent of Open Content for other publishers using this license?
2. Appendix I 4, you can create your own universe with the Foreven Sector material. So can you create additional sectors around your Foreven Sector as long as those sectors are not named the same as OTU sectors? If so, would that violate the FFSLL? How would someone develop those sectors using this license?
3. Appendix I 6, The box belongs on every first page. Ok for printed/long PDFs, but short and micro PDFs are at a slight disadvantage. Their first page generally contains material as opposed to a long list of acknowledgements. Is it possible for products under 20 pages to have this box on the same page as the OGL?
4. How does this work with the OGL? Is the Traveller SRD required for this? (Just trying to help sow up a loop hole.)

1. Section 16 basically lets someone do Star Wars (say, if they got the licence) with the Traveller rules and remain protected. Foreven material is not exactly Open Content, but can be considered so for most purposes.

2. Yes! That was part of the point - Foreven could be 'lifted' and placed in an entirely different universe. The whole point of a Free sector.

3. Can't see that as a compelling reason to change or make an exception . . .

4. Not sure what you are asking here. Foreven does not use the OGL (actually, I think I can see the loop hole you are talking about now ).

 

[MongooseMatt]

Yeah, pedantic, but c'mon - I've just barely finished my first read-through!

Considering what we have let people do witth the sector, I don;t think that will make much difference. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

I note that the SRD is still the same, and does not include alternative drive or powerplant technologies, nor the space opera or hard science world creation modifiers. You said in the past that you were considering adding these in - does this mean that you have decided against doing so?

No, I will try to get them in this week before we go live, time permitting.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Example: is it or is it not permissable for us to publish our own version of the Aldebaran or Dark Nebula OTU sectors on our own website or in a free, non-commercial magazine, so long as they just contains text, maps, and just CT UWPs?

Consider the Read Me.doc to be a flow chart - it will channel you into the licences you need to do what you want to do. What you are doing is covered completely by the FUP.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Easy litmis test: Is it for sell: FFSLL. Its not a 100% full proof, but it obviously is close to the intent of the Developer's Pack.

An easier one. If you are referencing an older edition book for the data, it is covered by the FUP. If you have to open a Mongoose edition book to get the data you want, it is not.

 

[Golan2072]

Thumbs up for Mongoose for clearing up this mess!

Note that ‘to publish’ covers not only printed books, but also documents such as those in Word or PDF formats, and web sites. Whether you are charging money for these items or giving them away for free makes no difference – if it is intended for the general public, it is still publishing!

Does that also include detailed forum and/or mailing list discussions?

 

[EDG]

Example: is it or is it not permissable for us to publish our own version of the Aldebaran or Dark Nebula OTU sectors on our own website or in a free, non-commercial magazine, so long as they just contains text, maps, and just CT UWPs?

Consider the Read Me.doc to be a flow chart - it will channel you into the licences you need to do what you want to do. What you are doing is covered completely by the FUP.

Ok, so when you say in the readme.doc "I want to produce material based on older and out of print versions of Traveller, and publish them on a non-commercial basis.", "the word material" also includes OTU-specific stuff, right? That's what it sounds like you're saying here.

Even if it's OTU-specific (and outside Foreven), so long as it's for a previous (i.e. non-MGT) version of Traveller it can be released for free under Fair Use?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Does that also include detailed forum and/or mailing list discussions?

Depends what you mean by detailed - we are not going to stop people talking about things! However, it is possible that someone could push their luck by putting an entire supplement online in this way. If someone took the mick, we would have to take a look, but generally, no.