Traveller 5E

[Sigtrygg]

Same here. And I think the T5 ship combat and how the tech stage designs for ship equipment interacts with it is highly intriguing.

Brilliant concept, needs editing. As to ship construction I have yet to build a ship using the rules as written, they are more confusing to me than FF&S ever was.

But I think there is a gem in the rough in the T4/T5 multi-D6 dice mechanic. It has it's issues RAW, but I think there is a path forward with a simple fix that takes care of the Stat-dominance of task resolution (putting the weight back on skills) and eliminating the TIH-mechanic kludge altogether.

I think the core mechanic of the T5 game should have been the flux mechanic...

I would someday like to experiment with a simplified T4/T5 Hybrid Game System.

My fix is to have the referee roll multiple d6 based on difficulty to determine the target number while the player always rolls 2d6 roll high as usual.
A novel twist I have considered but not used yet is that player skill levels are variable based on the number of dice the ref rolls

	standard	challenging	difficult	formidable
Referee rolls for target no.	2D6	3D6	4d6	5d6
character skill level	x1	x2	x2	x3

 

[Sigtrygg]

Updated campaign numbers, they hit 2,400 signed up following the pre-launch, remember you only get hte patch and the coin if you make an actual pledge.

This is almost double the number of Mongoose's best kickstarter. We will have to wait until it goes live but at this point it looks like it is well supported.

 

[shirgall]

I wonder if here and/or CotI will have a separate 5e sub-forum?

They don't bifurcate on either game system or game settings for the Traveller variants. It would be an explosion of confusing forums if they started slicing it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

They do on CotI, there are separate forums for each major iteration. Mongoose have sensibly not split the fan base by doing this.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I concur

It is a truuely awful game but a useful toolbox for Charted Space. There is a lot os stuff in it I mine for idea, but it is still in need of at least two more editorial passes, and a complete re-write of the rules to make them work. I know people say they have run it, but when you ask follow up questions they always have to house rule bits.
The T4 rules upon which it is based were awful too, with the exception of how damage was handled, and the psionics rules.

It is all that a lot of people know. I remember ridiculing RuneQuest back in the day until I got to play it and run it. As to Traveller i still have friends who refuse to play it if we use 2d6... yet they are happy with BRP, Aftermath, White Wolf or any other rules I use to run exactly the same scenario as I was going to run with 2d6.

Quite a mild rant really

Adendum.

When I first heard the news "Mongoose to release T5" I allowed myself a moment to hope that Mongoose were going to re-write T5 with the MgT engine. What a great game that could be. Chris and Geir with free reign to fix stuff and bring balance to the force. Art layout and graphics up to today's excellent Mongoose standards.

I look forward to the 5e version, especially with a GDW alumni at the helm, but I would have thrown an awful lot of money at a MgT T5 kickstarter...

Maybe they can raid it for content and keep the current game rules. A big change in how things work would invalidate too many of their products, but the tech might make it across.

 

[Vormaerin]

It's mostly different rules for the same techs that Mongoose has, because the authors who write the gear books are familiar with it and it's still basically Charted Space-centric. There's some increased granularity on ship systems like tracking different types of work stations, some stuff with comms systems not in Mongoose, and the like.

 

[joshualevy]

I finally came across a Reddit post where someone simply stated... "5E is not Traveller 5th Edition. '5E' is common short hand for D&D 5th Edition, and they are converting Traveller into the D&D 5E game system".

Why does none of the '5E' advertising not start with this basic explanation and instead assumes everyone knows what '5E' means. That sort of simple oversight doesn't give me a lot of confidence. Even when they do describe it they say something like the Traveller meets the 'most popular RPG system'.... assuming everyone must know what that is. I haven't played D&D since the 80's, and I'm relatively new to Traveller.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious, but the simple answer to your question, is that they are writing to the 95% of the RPGers who know D&D, and have been using the 5E terminology for over 10 years, and not the 5% of the RPGers who care about Traveller version numbers. It is a clear signal that they are targeting non-Traveller RPGers as their main market, so they naturally use the more common D&D terminology, especially in the title, and other "first impression" text.

On a slightly different topic, a lot of people here are saying things like "I don't see how they are going to do X or Y in D&D rules". To be honest, I don't either (for many values of X and Y). However, that just makes me more curious about the result. They guy who is doing this has designed games or settings for both GDW and TSR in the past. I want to see what happens. Is Traveller not about exploration of the unknown? Is Traveller using D&D rules not the unknown territory?

Joshua

 

[rinku]

There are three things that could be considered "Traveller". In practice, most of the time two or all three are in play.

1) The Traveller game mechanics. 2D6 if you will, though the throw plus DM system is only part of it. World Generation and the trade system are as much a core part of Traveller as shooting a gun or fixing an engine are.

2) The scientific and technological assumptions. All science fiction settings are defined by this, and Traveller has a fairly specific set: Gravity manipulation, no FTL communications, interstellar travel is through jumps of 1-6 parsecs that always take one week. Starships are at least 100 tons. Laser weapons are bulky. Tech Levels. One turret per 100 tons, 1 to 3 weapons per turret. Spinal mounts. Black Globes. Also Psionics, which have always been in the rules from day one.

3) The Third Imperium/Chartered Space/Traveller Map setting. Self explanatory.

You COULD have something that called itself "Traveller" just using #2. It's possible Traveller 5E may be such a beast, though it's most likely they'll go with #2 and #3, like TNE, GURPS, T20 and Hero Traveller did.

(For what it's worth, the 1977 black box was just #1 and #2)

 

[Limpin Legin]

On a slightly different topic, a lot of people here are saying things like "I don't see how they are going to do X or Y in D&D rules". To be honest, I don't either (for many values of X and Y). However, that just makes me more curious about the result. They guy who is doing this has designed games or settings for both GDW and TSR in the past. I want to see what happens.

Good, good.

Is Traveller not about exploration of the unknown?

It can be, although the official game setting is set in the 57th Century where a lot of the science has already been established and chartered space is also a reasonably well quantified thing. While a lot of exploration has already become more established, the Chartered Space is very uneven and alliances arrive and disappear throughout Imperial history, meaning there is great inconsistency within it's borders.

Is Traveller using D&D rules not the unknown territory?

Not completely unknown. Traveller was published under the WoC d20 OGL about 26 years ago. WoC then rewrote the OGL license on a more restrictive basis, and this affected many d20 publications, including Traveller. Some say Traveller d20 (abbreviated as T20) wasn't that good a port anyway. We shall have to wait and see what issues Traveller 5e addresses in terms of compatibility.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There are three things that could be considered "Traveller". In practice, most of the time two or all three are in play.

1) The Traveller game mechanics. 2D6 if you will, though the throw plus DM system is only part of it. World Generation and the trade system are as much a core part of Traveller as shooting a gun or fixing an engine are.

Traveller New Era isn't Traveller then... nor are T4 nd T5...

2) The scientific and technological assumptions. All science fiction settings are defined by this, and Traveller has a fairly specific set: Gravity manipulation, no FTL communications, interstellar travel is through jumps of 1-6 parsecs that always take one week. Starships are at least 100 tons. Laser weapons are bulky. Tech Levels. One turret per 100 tons, 1 to 3 weapons per turret. Spinal mounts. Black Globes. Also Psionics, which have always been in the rules from day one.

So the Mongoose Charted Space setting is not Traveller... there is FTL comms, there are TL16 worlds with jump 7, quad turrets...

3) The Third Imperium/Chartered Space/Traveller Map setting. Self explanatory.

So GURPS Traveller is Traveller, as are T20, HT etc. ...
nut not single homebrew Traveller setting is actually Traveller...

You COULD have something that called itself "Traveller" just using #2. It's possible Traveller 5E may be such a beast, though it's most likely they'll go with #2 and #3, like TNE, GURPS, T20 and Hero Traveller did.

(For what it's worth, the 1977 black box was just #1 and #2)

So you are now saying LBB 77Traveller wasn't Traveller by one of your definitions...

As I said, I can not answer this question because the answers are contradictory and a superposition of different concepts,

Here is a good one for you.

What if I use TNE rules and FF&S to make my own setting. Am I playing Traveller?

 

[Endie]

Traveller New Era isn't Traveller then... nor are T4 nd T5...

He says that "most of the time" Traveller versions have 2 or 3 of them in play, which implies that only one is sufficient. He explicitly says that to be "Traveller" a game does not need all three, or even two, of his criteria.

I'd agree with him that a game that had none of the three isn't really Traveller, no matter the branding. And, indeed, "2D6" is the least important of the three by a wide margin: T20 and T5 were clearly Traveller despite the different dice systems.

On the "what if I take this from here and this edge case from this other system then do this...?" question, remember the old maxim that hard cases make bad law. A good and wise definition is always vulnerable to gotchas, but are they really helpful?

 

[Sigtrygg]

He says that "most of the time" Traveller versions have 2 or 3 of them in play, which implies that only one is sufficient. He explicitly says that to be "Traveller" a game does not need all three, or even two, of his criteria.

And like I have replied, this is why pinning down a definition for what is Traveller is fruitless, the exceptions are greater than the rule.
Traveller is 2d6, except when it is not
Traveller is the Third Imperium and Charted Space, except when it is not
Traveller is the technology of the original game, except when it isn't.

I'd agree with him that a game that had none of the three isn't really Traveller, no matter the branding. And, indeed, "2D6" is the least important of the three by a wide margin: T20 and T5 were clearly Traveller despite the different dice systems.

So will you answer mu final question, if I use TNE rules and FF&S to make a bespoke setting am I playing Traveller?
2d6 system? Nope
Third Imperium Setting? Nope
Using a set of Traveller rules as they are intended to be used? Yup.

On the "what if I take this from here and this edge case from this other system then do this...?" question, remember the old maxim that hard cases make bad law. A good and wise definition is always vulnerable to gotchas, but are they really helpful?

The contradictions are built in at source. What I have posted are not edge cases.

I can not answer the question "what is Traveller". Over the years the rules have changed, but remained Traveller, the setting has changed, but remained Traveller, and its use for bespoke settings has changed but remains Traveller.

 

[swordtart]

It's like Theseus owned a Type A

 

[Endie]

So will you answer mu final question, if I use TNE rules and FF&S to make a bespoke setting am I playing Traveller?
2d6 system? Nope
Third Imperium Setting? Nope
Using a set of Traveller rules as they are intended to be used? Yup.

Sure, that satisfies the second option of the criteria Rinku proposed, so it's Traveller by his measures, and I would tend to agree. I don't really see the problem.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The problem is that there isn't a single definition for what Traveller is.

best of three only works until it doesn't meet any of those three criteria and yet remains Traveller.

Traveller is different things to different people I suppose is the closest I can come.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The total for the campaign is now over 2,500.

 

[shirgall]

There are three things that could be considered "Traveller". In practice, most of the time two or all three are in play.

1) The Traveller game mechanics. 2D6 if you will, though the throw plus DM system is only part of it. World Generation and the trade system are as much a core part of Traveller as shooting a gun or fixing an engine are.

2) The scientific and technological assumptions. All science fiction settings are defined by this, and Traveller has a fairly specific set: Gravity manipulation, no FTL communications, interstellar travel is through jumps of 1-6 parsecs that always take one week. Starships are at least 100 tons. Laser weapons are bulky. Tech Levels. One turret per 100 tons, 1 to 3 weapons per turret. Spinal mounts. Black Globes. Also Psionics, which have always been in the rules from day one.

3) The Third Imperium/Chartered Space/Traveller Map setting. Self explanatory.

You COULD have something that called itself "Traveller" just using #2. It's possible Traveller 5E may be such a beast, though it's most likely they'll go with #2 and #3, like TNE, GURPS, T20 and Hero Traveller did.

(For what it's worth, the 1977 black box was just #1 and #2)

I agree the LBBs did try to separate setting from the other mechanics but it ended up that #2 and #3 are intertwined.

#1, however, fulfills the GURPS mission with what, I feel, is a system with faster pacing and easier roleplay.

 

[WHULorigan]

There are three things that could be considered "Traveller". In practice, most of the time two or all three are in play.

1) The Traveller game mechanics. 2D6 if you will, though the throw plus DM system is only part of it. World Generation and the trade system are as much a core part of Traveller as shooting a gun or fixing an engine are. . . .

Traveller New Era isn't Traveller then... nor are T4 nd T5...

And neither is Classic Traveller, as Traveller Adventure and other places in the rules employed roll-under stat mechanics using 2D or 3D, or used custom D6 mechanics tailored for a particular skill, task, or situation.

Classic Traveller was a multi-D6 based mechanic that often used 2D6 roll-over a situation-specified target number, but it was not explicitly 2D6, and certainly not explicitly roll over 8 for success.