Trade Goods - Common Consumables
- Thread starter MasterGwydion
- Start date
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I have an entire filing cabinet of folders with NPCs, their histories, character sheets for different points in their histories, contacts and enemies lists. Heck, for some of them, I even have their stock portfolio from the Dilettante Book. All of them have notes in the folders too on their previous interactions with PCs so I don't forget or so I can mention previous PCs in new campaigns. There has got to be at least several hundred NPCs in there with thousands of pages of information between all of them.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Yeah. I don't play with people who don't role play. If you are just playing yourself, then you aren't really playing a role. You are just playing yourself. That is not roleplaying as I was taught it. It can be fun, but it's also not roleplaying. It's like going to a Halloween party dressed as yourself.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Me too, and I encourage players to generate at least 3 characters during session 0 and as many as they want during their own spare time. The point remains that I can not put the same effort into playing six NPCs that the players put into their one PC at the table.
TNE was a godsend for NPC motivation rules...
Can confirm, Travellers are not gods with thousands of hit points.
This.
You can absolutely have NPC Travellers.
The speculative trade system is for 'part-time' traders trying to fill their cargo hold at short notice while doing other things.
If you wanted to be a 'proper' sole trader, you would be making longer term deals between ports and making regular trade runs... which would follow different rules and (for most groups) is inherently less fun than buying a bunch of second hand vacc suits and then finding somewhere to sell them while tracking down rumours on a bunch of lost alien pyramids.
Not saying we won't do those 'proper' trading rules, just that they are not the priority for the game. However, the speculative trading rules work not just for real world players, but any in-universe character engaging in that lifestyle.
Indeed. If it were, most Travellers would be office workers, farm hands, and labourers. You can absolutely have been those things as a Traveller, but I feel many players would find that a little less satisfying.
The difference between Travellers and, well, normies, is a way of thinking. They have chosen not to simply retire or settle into comfortable jobs. They need to see what is out there. They need to travel.
The mechanics for Traveller creation are geared towards that. NPCs can use the Traveller rules for creation, but there is no assumption that the majority do. Put another way, do you think when we put an NPC in an adventure we have rolled each one up? Or have we assigned skills and characteristics to fit the character we need?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's a dead cat bounce!
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I would hope that you follow the rules as written in your books. Without it there are no rules for NPCs other than whatever the Referee says. Psionics score of 15 million? Sure, why not? Deception of 15? Yep. When I write up an NPC, I create him like a PC tailored to fit what I need. I will roll up stats, place them as I wish, figure out his age, break that down into careers, roll a d6 for each skill selection roll and then use that number and choose which category I want the skill from. Same way I do with My players. I use the same process for NPCs and PCs. It keeps everything simple and in line with how the players play. Why do you think that I have an entire filing cabinet of nothing but NPCs and their write-ups? I had a half full filing cabinet of PCs and all of their information too, but that filing cabinet wasn't fireproof, so I lost all of it in an apartment fire. The NPC cabinet was fireproof though. I never knew. I found them both on the side of the road in the trash. lol
Heck, without those rules, there isn't even anything that says NPCs have stats.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
For forty+ years I have done it like this.
Roll 2d6 for each characteristic.
Roll NPC type using the encounter table of your choice or pick what you need for the scenario.
Roll 1d6 for terms served or pick
Assign 2 skills per term that match the NPC's likely capabilities.
Alternatively use a pre-gen from 1001 characters (should have realised then what the Traveller authors thought about using rules as written lol), CotI or any of the hundreds of generated but unplayed characters, dead characters etc.
Roll 2d6 for each characteristic.
Roll NPC type using the encounter table of your choice or pick what you need for the scenario.
Roll 1d6 for terms served or pick
Assign 2 skills per term that match the NPC's likely capabilities.
Alternatively use a pre-gen from 1001 characters (should have realised then what the Traveller authors thought about using rules as written lol), CotI or any of the hundreds of generated but unplayed characters, dead characters etc.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
That is as good of a method as any.
I mean... I've run quite a lot of NPCs without any stats in various systems. Nothing wrong with putting in all that work to roll each one up as a full PC-level character, but in my experience my limited prep time could almost always be better spent on other things.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed. I often run NPCs who are little more than names on a page, but if needed I write them up completely, such as Patrons, Allies, and Enemies. Others I write up completely to help Me get a feel for who they are and how they fit into My campaign.
Back at the original question. You can make money by selling Common Consumables on the same planet or in system. That KCr1 freight payment per jump you miss out on does not apply as no-one said you would get it for dropping supplies off in the next city/continent. With a decent roll you could be trading twice a week in the domestic markets, each time selling the goods you bought from previous suppliers and buying new ones. Technically you can do this without even leaving town (get a stall at the market or at the starport).
With a cheap launch you can ship between spaceports (or maybe even land on carparks) and sell your ocean fresh fish to the other side of the planet long before the grav train could get it there. You can run the launch for a month for under KCr1, even less if you used unrefined fuel (which in theory is only dangerous when jumping). This also opens up the opportunity to sell to unstreamlined ships in orbit, moon colonies or if you fancy a long drive maybe one of the other planetary bodies. A trader chumming up with an ex-navy should be able to keep themsleves in beer using that ships boat he mustered out with (the navy must have a reason for handing them out) or by pooling your ship shares.
The profits from trading are not as swingy in MGT2 as they are in other versions, but with even a marginal profit of 10% on that Cr500 per ton, 14 tons of goods makes a total of Cr700. You only need to do this twice a month and you have paid the maintance on your ship. On average you can get 2 markets a week (or several a day if you go online). Of course if you had a Free Trader then you get 10% on 82 tons, and if you have a decent broker or hire one you should easily beat that 10%. You might also seek out markets with people who have no Broker skill, that -3 they are suffering will boost profits nicely.
True the market will dry up after a while (and possibly quickly especially with online trading), but then you can go fishing with you Navy buddy until the trade fleets come in again next month.
Travellers may not make anything shipping Common Consumables to other systems, but they can in the local markets (and it doesn't matter if a game mechanic doesn't favour players if we are making sure the system makes sense for NPC's too). Common goods are available on every planet so it doesn't have to make a lot of sense shipping them to other planets anyway (though there is no reason a scenario cannot come up with a reason why Trexalonian Scumble Fruit is sought after on Motmos)
I view Common Consumables as the entry level goods. A few runs with even moderate sucess will open the door to more profitable goods, but traders mustering out with only a few thousand need something to get a foot in the door. In a rags to riches campaign, you can't get much more raggedy and at that end of the market, even tins of beans can be an adventure. It is also a good way to learn the game being planet based and then expanding out into space once you have some money behind you.
"Some day I tell you I am getting off this lousy planet... Yeah, sure kid. Just help me load these air cylinders, a belter tells me they got a powerful need for them on the third moon."
With a cheap launch you can ship between spaceports (or maybe even land on carparks) and sell your ocean fresh fish to the other side of the planet long before the grav train could get it there. You can run the launch for a month for under KCr1, even less if you used unrefined fuel (which in theory is only dangerous when jumping). This also opens up the opportunity to sell to unstreamlined ships in orbit, moon colonies or if you fancy a long drive maybe one of the other planetary bodies. A trader chumming up with an ex-navy should be able to keep themsleves in beer using that ships boat he mustered out with (the navy must have a reason for handing them out) or by pooling your ship shares.
The profits from trading are not as swingy in MGT2 as they are in other versions, but with even a marginal profit of 10% on that Cr500 per ton, 14 tons of goods makes a total of Cr700. You only need to do this twice a month and you have paid the maintance on your ship. On average you can get 2 markets a week (or several a day if you go online). Of course if you had a Free Trader then you get 10% on 82 tons, and if you have a decent broker or hire one you should easily beat that 10%. You might also seek out markets with people who have no Broker skill, that -3 they are suffering will boost profits nicely.
True the market will dry up after a while (and possibly quickly especially with online trading), but then you can go fishing with you Navy buddy until the trade fleets come in again next month.
Travellers may not make anything shipping Common Consumables to other systems, but they can in the local markets (and it doesn't matter if a game mechanic doesn't favour players if we are making sure the system makes sense for NPC's too). Common goods are available on every planet so it doesn't have to make a lot of sense shipping them to other planets anyway (though there is no reason a scenario cannot come up with a reason why Trexalonian Scumble Fruit is sought after on Motmos)
I view Common Consumables as the entry level goods. A few runs with even moderate sucess will open the door to more profitable goods, but traders mustering out with only a few thousand need something to get a foot in the door. In a rags to riches campaign, you can't get much more raggedy and at that end of the market, even tins of beans can be an adventure. It is also a good way to learn the game being planet based and then expanding out into space once you have some money behind you.
"Some day I tell you I am getting off this lousy planet... Yeah, sure kid. Just help me load these air cylinders, a belter tells me they got a powerful need for them on the third moon."
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Also:
It is possible to buy Common Consumables for 15% and sell them for 400% or Buying at Cr75 and selling at Cr2000. Even with Cr1000 freight you are making Cr925 per Ton. Now the times those prices are available are few and far between, but that is the way traders work, buy low - sell high.
At one end of the chain some wealthy homesick ex-pat is paying over the odds so they can eat a chocolate bar from home, even though the shipping costs three times the normal price of the bar itself. At the other end in the chain there is someone buying over-production from the factory shop for about a fifth of the recommended retail price. You just need to be the one connecting those two
It is possible to buy Common Consumables for 15% and sell them for 400% or Buying at Cr75 and selling at Cr2000. Even with Cr1000 freight you are making Cr925 per Ton. Now the times those prices are available are few and far between, but that is the way traders work, buy low - sell high.
At one end of the chain some wealthy homesick ex-pat is paying over the odds so they can eat a chocolate bar from home, even though the shipping costs three times the normal price of the bar itself. At the other end in the chain there is someone buying over-production from the factory shop for about a fifth of the recommended retail price. You just need to be the one connecting those two
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I think orbital habitats, possibly moon(s).
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
I think there was a hidden assumption in the original trade rules: 'Goods are moved from one system to another'. Without that assumption, a trader could simply stay parked in the same Non-Agricultural world and simply flip local Textiles and Vacc Suits for infinite profit. Or, if they already have a stake of cash to work with, go to a Non-Industrial world & do the same thing with Gems.
I do not believe that such 'infinite money machines' were intended.
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
Spec Trade have to be over saturated goods. As local merchants are already fulfilling those deals.
If the traveller can sell it to that system, the local would have already done so.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The Onion Futures Act is a United States law banning the trading of futures contracts on onions as well as "motion picture box office receipts".[1]
In 1955, two onion traders, Sam Siegel and Vincent Kosuga, cornered the onion futures market on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. The resulting regulatory actions led to the passing of the act on August 28, 1958. As of October 2024, it remains in effect.[1]
The law was amended in 2010 to add motion picture box office futures to the list of banned futures contracts, in response to lobbying efforts by the Motion Picture Association of America.[2]
In 1955, two onion traders, Sam Siegel and Vincent Kosuga, cornered the onion futures market on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. The resulting regulatory actions led to the passing of the act on August 28, 1958. As of October 2024, it remains in effect.[1]
The law was amended in 2010 to add motion picture box office futures to the list of banned futures contracts, in response to lobbying efforts by the Motion Picture Association of America.[2]
I don't think there are any assumptions. There are just frameworks for you to sand box a game.
So without jump there can be no trade? There has never been anything other than trade confined to a single planet in the real world, yet somehow it still happens.
As to the infinite money tree - Trade within the same planet is not as profitable as you do not benefit from complimentary trade codes. You get limited tries per month. You have to spend time finding markets and money to buy the goods originally. If you don't have the right level of skill you may still not make a profit. It is a job and people make money doing jobs.
It is no more or less an infinite money machine than out of system trade.
EDIT:
Just ran a quick analysis. Selling to the domestic market means the trade codes are a wash. As you are dealing with a local trader you might be taking 4 off your roll so it is likely your modifiers overall will be negative. Even if we assume it breaks even then the raw 3d6 roll means on average you can buy 12.5% cheaper than base. Unfortunately you sell at 5% lower than base. Over the long term you make 7.5% (which seems about right for a wholesaler). You are on average able to source 140 tons and experience tells me that you will be lucky to get 4 markets a month. So your turn over is on average 560 tons. That equates to KCr21 in profit per month. That is over the long term. It assumes a standard distribution of results over almost 50,000 transactions (so you can ensure you get an 18 roll on both tables). It doesn't include your transport, storage and living expenses (which will be higher as you may be living in temporary accomodation while you trade far and wide).
It also assumes you can pony up the 280KCr to buy the stock in the first place. If you muster out with the typical KCr50 from the Merchants, it is going to take a while to get to the level that you can maximise your investment (and your monthly expenses are no cheaper at that point). If you have 280KCr we could ask why you are fiddling round with Common Consumables anyway.
If you only buy at lower than 100% of base and sell atover 100% of base you can enhance your profit to around 20% but you won't be buying or selling 15% of the time (which means that 20% profit looks more like 17%). In addition if that 15% of the time is also the time you need to pay bills you may have no option but to sell at a loss.
Remember this is you doing it as a full-time business. You can't use that 15% of time to do something else as you only find out you will get a bum deal after you have invested the time and money to find the supplier and realise it was a wasted trip.
Having run a solo trade based game for a while now (about 4 years of in game trade) I can confirm that the best way to make MCr1 in trade is to start with 10MCr
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