Tourney on 16th... what have I let myself in for?


Hi, I'm kinda new here - though I have been lurking for a while. I'm mates with Nidalap and Wing Commander, and I came down for the open day you had a month or two ago - which was cool, by the way. I've played enough games to basically know what I'm doing, and I've only had a kicking off Wing Commander's White Stars so far (pesky little things). So in my great wisdom I said I'd go to this tournament - which is now looking like a REALLY BIG DEAL. Now, I'm quite aware that I am going to come and quite probably get my a$$ handed to me all day, and I'm cool with that. However I would at least like not to make a complete fool of myself. I'm taking a Minbari fleet, and I already have a good idea what ships I'm taking - not a Sharlin, at any rate. Are there any ships you would regard as stupid to take in a 5 pt Raid? So that I don't turn up with a fleet that makes everyone go 'huh'? Are there any tactics I might have overlooked? I don't want to be a total 'bonehead'... ahem.
Troligan. Worst. Ship. Ever. Don't take it under any circumstances.

Buying seperate wings of Nials/Tishats is a bit of a waste since you only get 1 flight per wing. If you want fighters take a Morshin, you get 8 for 2 Raid points and a free carrier thrown in.

You can keep 2 points worth in hyperspace, use this. Since all your ships have AJP, you can fire on the turn you come out. Don't be too obsessed with hitting the enemy with AJP bombs, sure do it if you have the opportunity but don't put yourself in a bad position just to be able to do it. Its only one 6AD triple damage attack.

Don't worry about it too much we're all just there to have fun! Oh, and making everyone go "huh" can be a good thing, you take people by surprise.
If you want to keep hyperspace reserves, you'll open the point, and come through the following turn. Plus you'll be using open jump point! so can't do anything flash as you do so...

One slightly evil suggestion is to get a handful of torotha's - open multiple points scattered throughout your opponents deployment zone (you might try a jump-strike with one of them), and then the torotha's each hold a jump point whilst something significantly more menacing jumps through AND can concentrate fire as it does so (if it's advantageous to do so)...also any of your hyperspace reserves can come out through any jump point, so you get to pick whichever jump point he hasn't managed to bring heavy weapons to bear on.

Plus the torothas have heavy close-range guns and are expendable by minbari standards - ideal for anything that will end up with you close to the enemy.
You can only keep 2 FAP's in hyperspace, and most of the Minbari heavy hitters are Battle level. Although 2 Torothas opening JP's for a CAF'd Tigara could be nasty.

With 2 Torotha you can open 2 JP's at opposite sides, your opponent won't know which you are going to come through.
Was already thinking about a couple of Torothas - might have a plan with them. Probably not taking any fighters, haven't the points to spare.
Agree about the Troligan. I have used it successfully as a floating fortress in a 5 pt Battle, they can actually suck up a lot of damage - but they can't put much damage out. Pity, it's my favourite model.

Personally, I think I'll be going with Tinashis - they are relatively tough, quick, kick out a fair amount of firepower, and there won't be that 'eggs in one basket' thing you get with taking a Sharlin. With just a Sharlin as your main ship you might as well put a big neon sign on it saying 'Aim Here'.

I've read as many of the tactics threads as I have had chance to, and every one of them descends into a 'Stealth is Broken' rant, so I wasn't getting very far!
A Tigara or Ashinta is a good ship to hold in hyperspace with the Torothas, Of the two, I would probably take the Tigara. However to use it, it needs to be up close and personal and I am not sure how effective this will be with the new Stealth mechanic.

As Burger says, the Troligan is dreadful when you could have a Morshin with Nials or a Tinashi/Shantavi instead. The Shantavi is extremely powerful but to the fore only, so does need protection.

As for Raid ships, the Tigara is a close range ship, and very good at it (most of its weapons can however be intercepted). The Teshlan is a potent long range version. The Ashinta is also quite powerful as it can dominate at medium ranges, though it does lack the Double Damage/Precise traits of the weapons on the other two. The Lehath could also be a good bet, it has a huge Stealth score, and is a Scout, so if you AJP in an assualt fleet, they do not need to resrict themselves with CAF! if you can get a scout lock.
Just my opinion, but I think stealth is now too weak. Just get within 8", send in some fighters to do Scanners To Full, and stealth rolls become "anything but a 1" on a Stealth 4+ ship. With weak Minbari hulls, thats going to hurt a lot.

Even a stealth 5+ ship will be reduced to "anything but a 1" simply by Scouting, STF!, and getting within 8".
With 2 Torotha you can open 2 JP's at opposite sides said:
Question - If I do this with my Torotha's, does each Torotha have to come through the same one they created, or can they both come through one of the JP's, leaving the other one empty?
They don't have to go through their own jump point, no. Just be careful, when the ship creating the JP goes through, it closes! So they can't both go through each other's...
You may as well open up a Jump point with all the ships in hyperspace. You can choose to exit through any of the active jump points. So you could come in into two place if you so wished. The 'empty' jump point would just close whne the creating ship moves (probably into real space) without using the Initiate Jump Point special action again.
Cheers guys, I think I understand that. However, if I squadron the Torothas, their movement counts as simultaneous, right? So if a squadron opens JPs in two different places (say, either side of a bunch of fighters), then the squadron can enter using one of the JPs, and the point will only close when they have both come through, because they are moving at the same time, no matter what order I physically move the models, right? Or am I screwing this up?
Since you're moving both anyway, you might as well move the JP-opener last to avoid the debate ;)
I doubt anyone would try to catch you out on this specific point. If they do, they're on the way to getting reduced sportsmanship.
My main concern was a) not having someone hopped up on Tourney juice pick apart my careful plan by telling me it was illegal and b) not being accused of 'Cheese'. I've had baaaad experiences at Tourneys with Rules Lawyers - ask Nidalap, he'll tell you - and I mainly don't want to turn up on Saturday and find that I'm doing something dumb, or borderline cheating. I gotta say, I don't really believe in 'Cheese' when it comes to legal tactics - an old friend of mine who was a bouncer once told me there is no such thing as a fair fight - kick 'em in the balls, bite their face, poke 'em in the eye - it doesn't matter how you fought, it only matters who won. That's not to say I'd be a bad opponent to play, I always want to have fun and I will not be beardy - but I do want to win. If I lose, at least I'll lose with a smile on my face...
Cap'n Silvereye said:
There is a huge difference between a fight on the street and a competative game.
Yes: one of them you get beaten up, probably a few broken bones, lose a few pints of blood and are picking glass out of your face for the next few days. The other, is a street fight.

I don't think there are any cheesy tactics. Just cheesy fleet selections.....
Cap'n Silvereye said:
There is a huge difference between a fight on the street and a competative game.

Maybe. I'd say pride is at stake in both.

Don't get me wrong - I am not one of those horrible guys you get in Tourneys sometimes who pick apart everything you do, and quibble over half a millimetre of movement. As I said, I don't play beardy, and I want every game to be fun for me and my opponent. I have no problem getting trounced if the game was fun. But having 'Cheese' shouted at a tactic that is totally legal and possible in the rules as they stand is wrong. If you don't like the rules as they stand, don't play the game. Why do you think I quit 40k?

Hell, I've only been posting for an hour and already I've got someone's back up. Silvereye, everything I have said is meant as fun, and I am only here to make friends, not annoy anyone. Hope you haven't taken anything to heart?