Thoughts on torpedoes vs shells

[Greg Smith]

Shells are far less effective in VAS than torpedoes. Sure shells have far greater range than torpedoes, and hit a lot more often, but torpedoes most are brought to battle on fast, hard-to hit destroyers and most importantly a hit with a single torpedo AD can cripple or sink a cruiser.

Now no-one disputes that torpedoes were horrible effective in WW2. Yet shells could be too - a single hit could wreck a turret (Graf Spee vs Exeter) or destroying fuel processing (Exeter vs Graf Spee). Even a near miss knocked the Exeter's float plane out of action.

VAS is largely a game of attrition. It is about knocking damage down, while ships continue fighting without losing fighting ability, unlike actual battles. Only a few critical hits actually affect a ship's ability to fight, and they only gradually build up. A single hit won't knock a turret out. More heavily armoured ships are harder to damage.

But torpedoes don't follow those assumptions. They deal massive damage and can radically alter a ship's ability to fight, through random criticals. In these respects, they reflect real torpedo effects, but they don't reflect the rest of the game.

My suggestion is to bring torpedoes in line with shells. Give them an AP value. Lose the devastating trait. By all means give them extra criticals. But make them less realistic.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hmm

We fully intended torps to be nasty, and their effects (we feel) are pretty spot on.

However, you do raise a good point that we have been mulling over the past few weeks. We think the solution is to look at the delivery system and make destroyers a bit less fraught to face, and strengthening the effect of ships that should be screening (primarily cruisers and other destroyers).

You will see the effects of this in the next update - I would like everyone to have a go at those before we start messing around with torps. As I say, i think we have them right, we just need to look at how they are deployed and what counters are available.

 

[AlbertArmstrong]

Shells are far less effective in VAS than torpedoes. Sure shells have far greater range than torpedoes, and hit a lot more often, but torpedoes most are brought to battle on fast, hard-to hit destroyers and most importantly a hit with a single torpedo AD can cripple or sink a cruiser.

Now no-one disputes that torpedoes were horrible effective in WW2. Yet shells could be too - a single hit could wreck a turret (Graf Spee vs Exeter) or destroying fuel processing (Exeter vs Graf Spee). Even a near miss knocked the Exeter's float plane out of action.

VAS is largely a game of attrition. It is about knocking damage down, while ships continue fighting without losing fighting ability, unlike actual battles. Only a few critical hits actually affect a ship's ability to fight, and they only gradually build up. A single hit won't knock a turret out. More heavily armoured ships are harder to damage.

But torpedoes don't follow those assumptions. They deal massive damage and can radically alter a ship's ability to fight, through random criticals. In these respects, they reflect real torpedo effects, but they don't reflect the rest of the game.

My suggestion is to bring torpedoes in line with shells. Give them an AP value. Lose the devastating trait. By all means give them extra criticals. But make them less realistic.

It is true that torpedoes can be more effective than shells in certain situations, such as when targeting heavily armored ships or when dealing critical damage that can incapacitate a ship. However, as you have pointed out, VAS is a game of attrition where ships need to sustain damage without losing their fighting ability.

By giving torpedoes an AP value and reducing their devastating trait, it could make them more in line with shells in terms of gameplay mechanics. However, this would also make them less realistic, as torpedoes were historically known for their devastating effects on ships.

 

[Condottiere]

Torpedoes are meant to be nasty, but also opportunistic.

Heavily armoured ships also tend to be big ships, which if heavily bulkheaded, also contain flooding.

Being armed with them is also a potential hazard, if enemy fire manages to damage them.

Game systems mechanics tends to make having them on battleships a good idea, whereas hindsight would be not to have them installed in the first place.