The World Builder's Handbook - It Is Here!

[Tom B]

I might get myself a copy if and when I come into any money. I was just looking at the preview on drive through and I think I have spotted a slight error on page 15. The diagram at the top of the page has two lines with Ia, I think one should be Ib.

 

[Vormaerin]

Others have reported that, yes. Its a recurring problem. There's two graphics schemes for art. One is most commonly used on digital images and the other has advantages for printed art. Most pdfs read both of them fine, but for some reason Apple thinks its fine to only read the digital oriented format.

This means that companies like Mongoose need to maintain two different versions of all their art, one for the printed books and another for the Apple readers. Personally, I think this is an Apple problem, since everyone else can manage to make pdfs that handle both types, but yelling at Mongoose is probably more effective.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I should have said I'm using Preview on an iMac and iPad with the latest OS updates.

Preview is a problem for reading some PDFs, including some Mongoose ones. One thing Mongoose could do is unlock the files, rather than make them password dependent. That is, a lot of the issues I have on Preview can be fixed if I simply had access to edit and modify the PDFs.

 

[flyteach]

It's not just preview. Other readers on an Apple OS see missing art and shadows for some graphics. The question would be: what does the PDF standard say? If it's Apple that isn't abiding by the standard, then we'll have to adapt. If it's Mongoose not abiding by the standard, then they need to fix it. Although, I haven't seen this issue before in the PDFs I have, either from Mongoose or otherwise.

 

[Vormaerin]

You aren't going to get Apple to care. This issue has been discussed on their forums for years and years (you can google it if you don't believe me ). They don't put in support for certain kinds of graphical files that are primarily optimized for print publishing. Their opinion appears to be that publishers shouldn't be using those files in digital products. Other PDF makers have a different opinion on that, because they do spend the time to provide support for those file types.

I'm sure Apple meets whatever the minimum standard is to be a pdf reader, if that's what you mean. They just don't make ones with the same range of features as their competitors for whatever reason.

 

[Marc]

Yes, BD is Brown dwarf and D is white dwarf.
A result of 2 on the Type column roll, is Special. In the text it says that the Special result can use either the Special or the Unusual column for the follow-up roll. Because Charted Space doesn't generally contain Brown or White dwarfs as the primary star, for similar environments, the Referee can use Special column, and BD and D (or other oddity) primaries are relegated to the Special Circumstances chapter as residents of 'Empty' hexes.

Or the Referee can choose to use the Unusual column for the follow-up roll. (I had originally called these columns Special1 and Special2 and what is now the Peculiar column was once called the Unusual column, but that was not cool - so far the only artifact of the rewrite I've seen is the misspelling of peculiar in a section heading... but there may be others.)

Brown and White Dwarfs can also be generated as Non-Primary stars with the 'Other' result. on the table on page 29. And if you wanted to, on a result of Random and a subsequent result of 2 on the Type column on page 15, you can use the Unusual instead of Special column. Up to you.


Yes. So, an initial roll of 2 on Type column cause a roll on the Special column and a result of 6, 7, or 8 results in a Class IV star
On page 16:
Any result starting with Class requires a second roll on
the Type column with DM+1
So reroll on the Type column with DM+1, where a result of 7 or 8 (after the +1) would get you K.


Yes, that's correct.

Hi!
Respectfully, where you said:
"A result of 2 on the Type column roll, is Special. In the text it says that the Special result can use either the Special or the Unusual column for the follow-up roll. "

I do not see that in the text.
I do see a discussion on preferences for Brown or White Dwarfs, but do not see the statement "the Special result can use either the Special or the Unusual column for the follow-up roll."


A further point where I had to re-read the text was regarding the initial 2D6+DM roll on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15)
Where the paragraph below reads: "Most stars will be Class V..."
This is a very very subtle way of saying that any result on that first roll except "Special" or "Hot" is assumed to be a Class V star

I had to re-read that several times while referring to the running in-line example for the Zed system on the bottom right of page 16.


I suggest that it may be clear to you, since you designed the data....but, it is not stated out right and is not at all clear to a reader new to the material.

Another thing I cannot find at all are the Die modifiers?
The very first column on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15) header reads "2D+DM"

But, where are the related DM's for that column?

 

[Geir]

Hi!
Respectfully, where you said:
"A result of 2 on the Type column roll, is Special. In the text it says that the Special result can use either the Special or the Unusual column for the follow-up roll. "

I do not see that in the text.
I do see a discussion on preferences for Brown or White Dwarfs, but do not see the statement "the Special result can use either the Special or the Unusual column for the follow-up roll."

Too subtle on my part then, because that is the intent for the choice on whether to use the Special or Unusual column on a result of Special. Where it says
"If the Referee chooses to include these as primary stars in some systems, they should choose the Unusual column, if not, the Special column"

It made more sense when it was Special1 or Special 2. I think perhaps the fix for clarity would be chance the result of a Type 2- roll from "Special" to "Special or Unusual"

A further point where I had to re-read the text was regarding the initial 2D6+DM roll on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15)
Where the paragraph below reads: "Most stars will be Class V..."
This is a very very subtle way of saying that any result on that first roll except "Special" or "Hot" is assumed to be a Class V star

I didn't think:
"Most stars will be Class V main sequence stars. This is the default assumption."
was subtle, but clearly, it is not a clear as I think it was. Would it help to put an asterisk after the Type and Hot column headings and then add the footnote? As in:
*Stars are Class V main sequence stars unless they result from Special or Unusual rolls.

I had to re-read that several times while referring to the running in-line example for the Zed system on the bottom right of page 16.


I suggest that it may be clear to you, since you designed the data....but, it is not stated out right and is not at all clear to a reader new to the material.

Clearly.

Another thing I cannot find at all are the Die modifiers?
The very first column on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15) header reads "2D+DM"

But, where are the related DM's for that column?

In the text, On page 16:
"Any result starting with Class requires a second roll on the Type column with DM+1."
restated later in that section for Class III+
Also for Protostars (p. 16):
"Roll again on the Star Type table with DM+1 to determine protostar type."

I suppose here it could benefit from also being added as DMs below the table on page 15:

Stars of Class Ia - IV	DM+1 on the Type column
Protostars	DM+1 on the Type column

 

[Sigtrygg]

Perhaps a series of JTAS articles to flesh out some of these ideas...

 

[Marc]

Where I asked:
Another thing I cannot find at all are the Die modifiers?
The very first column on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15) header reads "2D+DM"

But, where are the related DM's for that column?

I was, perhaps, not clear myself. I was looking for the DM's for the Star Type Determination Table - on Page 15
However, your response seems to be in line with the instructions given for DM's used on the "Star SubType" table on Page 16

In the text, On page 16:
"Any result starting with Class requires a second roll on the Type column with DM+1."
restated later in that section for Class III+
Also for Protostars (p. 16):
"Roll again on the Star Type table with DM+1 to determine protostar type."

I suppose here it could benefit from also being added as DMs below the table on page 15:

Stars of Class Ia - IV	DM+1 on the Type column
Protostars	DM+1 on the Type column

And, thank you for your very prompt reply!

 

[Geir]

Where I asked:
Another thing I cannot find at all are the Die modifiers?
The very first column on the Star Type Determination Table(Page 15) header reads "2D+DM"

But, where are the related DM's for that column?

I was, perhaps, not clear myself. I was looking for the DM's for the Star Type Determination Table - on Page 15
However, your response seems to be in line with the instructions given for DM's used on the "Star SubType" table on Page 16


And, thank you for your very prompt reply!

Well... bummer, it says "Star Type table". It should say "Type column Star Type Determination table" if I was being more accurate. So I can see where you would assume Star Subtype... which has no DMs, which would be even more confusing. That is meant to reference the page 15 table.

So it definitely needs the words added at the bottom of the first column of page 16 for clarity, and it certainly can benefit from the DMs being added directly below the Star Type Determination table as well.

 

[Galadrion]

So it definitely needs the words added at the bottom of the first column of page 16 for clarity, and it certainly can benefit from the DMs being added directly below the Star Type Determination table as well.

I would suggest in particular that DM tables should, if at all practicable, be on the same page as the chart they are intended to modify. I've noticed many (many, many) instances in the book where the DM tables are on the next page, which is rather jarring and occasionally confusing.

(I realize this is not always possible. Some tables take up a full page - or more - on their own. But it would probably be a good idea to try to rearrange matters so that the DMs were on the same page as at least part of their target material.)

 

[Marc]

@Geir
I would agree with what @Galadrion said.
You have a table on Page 15....and you have discussed the DM's for that table on the bottom of Page 16.

So, you've inserted a full page of other topics where:
On the bottom of Page 15, you provided:
- A straight forward statement about handling the roll of 12
- A "Reality vs Traveller" view of BD and WD usage in which you slide in how to handle a roll of 2, which must be read very carefully and is not obvious.

Then, on Page 16, you discuss
- the +1 for "Class" results on the "second roll" on the Type
- Optional Vairents
- The Peculiar column

And, only then do you get back to the DM's for the first roll on the table.

So, I stand with @Galadrion, who suggested organizing items directly with each other.

 

[Geir]

@Geir
I would agree with what @Galadrion said.
You have a table on Page 15....and you have discussed the DM's for that table on the bottom of Page 16.

So, you've inserted a full page of other topics where:
On the bottom of Page 15, you provided:
- A straight forward statement about handling the roll of 12
- A "Reality vs Traveller" view of BD and WD usage in which you slide in how to handle a roll of 2, which must be read very carefully and is not obvious.

Then, on Page 16, you discuss
- the +1 for "Class" results on the "second roll" on the Type
- Optional Vairents
- The Peculiar column

And, only then do you get back to the DM's for the first roll on the table.

So, I stand with @Galadrion, who suggested organizing items directly with each other.

I don't disagree at all. I've consolidated the comments and suggestions for improvements you've prompted me to make in the Feedback section for this forum, so they'll be easier to track for changes.
As for the many instances of the DMs not following tables, I'm sure those responsible for layout are doing their best. At the standard font size used throughout these books there is only so much you can put on a page. It doesn't help that I made really big tables and was pushing up against my page limit Pages is not a big deal for digital files, but I went way over when I wrote on Spinward Extents, which I'm sure is why that hardcover comes in at $59.99. And that's after cutting a bunch of material repurposing it in JTAS articles. Still missing some ships out of the original manuscript...

 

[Galadrion]

Well, I finally finished the first read-through of this heavyweight of a book, after three days (hey, I had to work two twelve-hour shifts in there). I have to admit, I am greatly impressed. Most of the errors I spotted amounted to typos (e.g. the chapter title sidebar on page 149 reads "WORLD SICIAL CHARACTERISTICS" - I'm not sure why, but that one in particular just jumped out at me). One thing I was very favorably impressed by is that, for the most part, the mathematical formulae presented are correct... and correctly laid out. (Anything more complicated than basic arithmetic, I've found, is hideously prone to both layout- and editing-induced errors. Somehow, you've managed to shepherd this project through at least this much of the process without anything particularly obvious getting introduced.)

Overall, I'm very pleased. Thank you, sir (and all the support staff, as well).

 

[Geir]

Well, I finally finished the first read-through of this heavyweight of a book, after three days (hey, I had to work two twelve-hour shifts in there). I have to admit, I am greatly impressed. Most of the errors I spotted amounted to typos (e.g. the chapter title sidebar on page 149 reads "WORLD SICIAL CHARACTERISTICS" - I'm not sure why, but that one in particular just jumped out at me). One thing I was very favorably impressed by is that, for the most part, the mathematical formulae presented are correct... and correctly laid out. (Anything more complicated than basic arithmetic, I've found, is hideously prone to both layout- and editing-induced errors. Somehow, you've managed to shepherd this project through at least this much of the process without anything particularly obvious getting introduced.)

Overall, I'm very pleased. Thank you, sir (and all the support staff, as well).

Thank you.

The Word Equation editor was a big help. There's still a few square roots with an unnecessary tiny 2 in them, but that's not incorrect, just unnecessary, and I got overly enthusiastic with the tool.

 

[Marc]

I don't disagree at all. I've consolidated the comments and suggestions for improvements you've prompted me to make in the Feedback section for this forum, so they'll be easier to track for changes.
As for the many instances of the DMs not following tables, I'm sure those responsible for layout are doing their best. At the standard font size used throughout these books there is only so much you can put on a page. It doesn't help that I made really big tables and was pushing up against my page limit Pages is not a big deal for digital files, but I went way over when I wrote on Spinward Extents, which I'm sure is why that hardcover comes in at $59.99. And that's after cutting a bunch of material repurposing it in JTAS articles. Still missing some ships out of the original manuscript...

To be honest, I do not think this is a issue with Layout.
The "choice" to place the DMs in-line as part of text along with the choice to put the subjects in the order you did resulted in disassociation of the DMs in my opinion.
I am attaching a mock up I did as a recommendation that I feel is better

Also note, I Added the Optional Variant types in parenthesis

 

[Marc]

Hi again...
On page 17, in the right column, in the paragraph beginning "The major determinant for..."
the second sentence says: "Actual temperature values can be extrapolated from the table above..."

However, the table is in fact "below" that paragraph

 

[Geir]

Hi again...
On page 17, in the right column, in the paragraph beginning "The major determinant for..."
the second sentence says: "Actual temperature values can be extrapolated from the table above..."

However, the table is in fact "below" that paragraph

That's definitely a layout artifact. But in this case the simple solution is just to remove the word 'above'. I mean, we could change it to 'below' and then another change kicks the text around or the table. I'd hate to have to refer to it by name again, 'Star Mass and Temperature by Class', though that would be the solution with the most clarity, but that's a lot more letters than 'above' and could mess up the whole page. And that could knock off all the references to other page numbers (I don't know if the layout tool has the brains to use reference links for page numbers or whether they are hand-entered - I just hand in a Word document and let the experts do their thing).

Still, I'm going to have to take table fluidity into account in all my writing going forward and write neutral language around them.

Marc, I'm fairly certain there a re a few more artifacts like this. If you find them, can you put them in the feedback topic for this book: https://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/threads/world-builders-handbook-feedback.124027/

(hopefully that link works)
That way Bella can find all the topics in one place and fix them easier. I'll add this one there right now.

Thanks. I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[grimshwiz]

I don't disagree at all. I've consolidated the comments and suggestions for improvements you've prompted me to make in the Feedback section for this forum, so they'll be easier to track for changes.
As for the many instances of the DMs not following tables, I'm sure those responsible for layout are doing their best. At the standard font size used throughout these books there is only so much you can put on a page. It doesn't help that I made really big tables and was pushing up against my page limit Pages is not a big deal for digital files, but I went way over when I wrote on Spinward Extents, which I'm sure is why that hardcover comes in at $59.99. And that's after cutting a bunch of material repurposing it in JTAS articles. Still missing some ships out of the original manuscript...

OT: What issues of JTAS have Spinward Extents content in them? I just got my hardcover in the mail today and would like to look at extra content as well. Thanks!

 

[Geir]

OT: What issues of JTAS have Spinward Extents content in them? I just got my hardcover in the mail today and would like to look at extra content as well. Thanks!

All of the patron encounters and some of the starships:

Patron: ‘Lightning’, Alien	JTAS 7
Patron: Ramona Raskin, Spacer	JTAS 7
Patron: Uraz Gnoezdanu, Emissary	JTAS 7
Patron: ‘Ed’	JTAS 8
Patron: Prince Amaad Dagashkugiim	JTAS 9
Patron: Jerzi Gerari	JTAS 10
Patron: Zoë Tran	JTAS 10
The Sword of Oberon	JTAS 11
Starships of the Spinward Extents	JTAS 11
Patron: Trista Galibaan, Skip Tracer	JTAS 11
Patron: Del Madrin, Scout	JTAS 11
Patron: Milo Van Ulrik	JTAS 12