Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We're heading for another mass extinction event, though I think it's already happened.
The use of AI generated content in TAS products
- Thread starter AndrewW
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
If Hasbro thought they could get away with it, they'd be turning loose artificial intelligence programmes on Magic and Dungeons And Dragons.
They don't, because the fanbase would turn on them.
Though, I suspect they've been testing it out.
That doesn't mean that eventually it won't be utilized.
They don't, because the fanbase would turn on them.
Though, I suspect they've been testing it out.
That doesn't mean that eventually it won't be utilized.
Limpin Legin
Emperor Mongoose
That is a bit like saying a lightsabre can fight a battle for you. It doesn't without a skilled swordsman.
The AI equivalent is "prompts". Sophonts generate prompts that the machine (AI) turns into text or images. If you visit NightCafe (for example) it is very easy to see from the site's gallery that the best AI generated art comes from pro artists - not from the AI assistant itself.
Hermit King
Banded Mongoose
i can agree to a point but i think you also have to concider the other side. what would the world be like with me? i dont mean that as a bost, i saying its small time writers like me get pushed out of the market. i am not claiming im a great writer but how many people could asend to be great writers. and keep in mind ai is not boosting actual artwork. it looks and says let make it in the style of or mimics a style of art like wetbrush.
people seem ok with things like rap music which lifts actual beats from song and loops them for their work. my art and yes i mean my art take a lot of work to get right. i have to word it right, then i crop flip mat add borders color balence and all matter of post work. trust me if i made enough in my books i would love hand drawn artwork. but if i sell 20 copies of my book i will be doing good. then remember that no matter how much you do ear drivethrough takes 40% of that. some books dont even sell the 20 copies. how does small time writers balance how much he earns. it would cost more than i make just for a cover art. hand drawn art is not an option for me. if i ever get to the point where i really make art i will be more than happy to hire an artist.
in the end i realize i am the maniorty here BUT why spoil things for people like me. i let people know i use ai artwork, let them decide to buy or not! you may not like ai art but some people dont have an issue with it. disallowing it only hurts the game over all because you lose those small time writers like me! I do think it should be said right up front that ai was used but i think it still should be allowed. i promise you if i published a book with no artwork you still would not buy it.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Simple question - how much of your time does it take to use the AI to make the images you imagine. That is what we are paying for.
Note - they are images from your imagination, they are original to you. The AI only aids you in realising the image. If you didn't prompt it - doing work - the AI would produce nothing.
So I am paying for your time.
If someone wants to pay for my time I charge £30 per hour, and I get it. Maths, chemisty, physics tutoring. I could charge more. Or I could spend an hour with AI to design a starship and miss out on that £30.
I'd rather get paid £30 and spend £10 buying your work...
Note - they are images from your imagination, they are original to you. The AI only aids you in realising the image. If you didn't prompt it - doing work - the AI would produce nothing.
So I am paying for your time.
If someone wants to pay for my time I charge £30 per hour, and I get it. Maths, chemisty, physics tutoring. I could charge more. Or I could spend an hour with AI to design a starship and miss out on that £30.
I'd rather get paid £30 and spend £10 buying your work...
It might be worth pointing out that the forthcoming Singularity campaign tackles these exact questions... albeit on a somewhat larger scale.
Going to be interesting to see what answers your Travellers come up with...
Going to be interesting to see what answers your Travellers come up with...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
1999 really was the peak of human civilization. lolz
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
My view as a creator is that I will never knowingly use or pay for a product that uses generative AI for text or art. The AI was trained on stolen (in my opinion) work and is irrevocably tainted. If the choice is between there being a work with AI art or no work at all, I come down firmly on the no work side. As was said earlier, a community can turn on a product line that uses it and I think allowing it is a poor decision.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I can't wait for that. Will we get more detailed word on it anytime soon?
Remember the Kinunir!
Very soon
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Do you buy hand made cloths made from hand made threads woven into hand made cloth? Or mass produced on computer controlled looms?
The powered (programmable) loom created quite an upset in the early days of the industrial revolution - see luddite
Luddite - Wikipedia
AI is a tool, without a person providing the imagination it achieves nothing.
Here is my thoughts on AI, not that you asked it is free.
There is a difference between creativity and the ability to create. I an a creative person, I have a lot of good ideas and I know just what I am trying to say with words and portray with a picture. I do not have the ability to take those creative ideas and create a product.
So I hire a writer and I gave them instructions on what I wanted. The wordsmith it and throw in a few great ideas that improve or expand on the initial content, but it i still my core Idea. Even if the expansion on the original concept was unintentional, but a process of creative writing and cleaning up how I expressed myself. At what point does this process take my concept away, making it unrecognizable from the core concept and making it more the property of the writer. Just because I cannot express my creative ideas well enough to capture an audience.
Same for a Picture, a child with crayons can do better. Because I cannot express it my self I should never try to put it out there.
These areas are not my expertise, put me in a room with other Network Engineers and I will more than hold my own.
The point is what is the difference it giving my core concept to someone else to breath life into it and asking my computer to do it.
I do not put out content because I will not use AI and I cannot afford a writer or an artist, just how I feel. So is the world better off without my creativity, who can tell.
There is a reason why Weird Al doesn't accept Ideas from other on what parodies to make, if he did he could not call it his own even though he wrote the words and created the song. The no longer owns the idea. So to hire an artist or writer, do I still own the Idea?
There is a difference between creativity and the ability to create. I an a creative person, I have a lot of good ideas and I know just what I am trying to say with words and portray with a picture. I do not have the ability to take those creative ideas and create a product.
So I hire a writer and I gave them instructions on what I wanted. The wordsmith it and throw in a few great ideas that improve or expand on the initial content, but it i still my core Idea. Even if the expansion on the original concept was unintentional, but a process of creative writing and cleaning up how I expressed myself. At what point does this process take my concept away, making it unrecognizable from the core concept and making it more the property of the writer. Just because I cannot express my creative ideas well enough to capture an audience.
Same for a Picture, a child with crayons can do better. Because I cannot express it my self I should never try to put it out there.
These areas are not my expertise, put me in a room with other Network Engineers and I will more than hold my own.
The point is what is the difference it giving my core concept to someone else to breath life into it and asking my computer to do it.
I do not put out content because I will not use AI and I cannot afford a writer or an artist, just how I feel. So is the world better off without my creativity, who can tell.
There is a reason why Weird Al doesn't accept Ideas from other on what parodies to make, if he did he could not call it his own even though he wrote the words and created the song. The no longer owns the idea. So to hire an artist or writer, do I still own the Idea?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
You’re welcome to your view. It doesn’t change mine. A tool created by stealing and processing the work of many, many people to then take away their livelihoods will never get my approval.Do you buy hand made cloths made from hand made threads woven into hand made cloth? Or mass produced on computer controlled looms?
The powered (programmable) loom created quite an upset in the early days of the industrial revolution - see luddite
Luddite - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
AI is a tool, without a person providing the imagination it achieves nothing.
Machine Learning models, LLMs, and other types of "AI" have value and have a place. They are very powerful tools. I do not think that anyone here is denying that. And like many inventions before them they will free up humans to pursue other endeavors.
But comparing LLM generated Art to a cotton gin or a mechanical loom is ridiculous. Having computers generate "Art" is in no way the same as automating an industrial (or business) process. Art's purpose is self-expression and creativity, the mechanical loom, cotton gin, or robots on a factory floor are about neither of those. And "Art" generate by a computer with an algorithm cannot provide any self-expression or creativity. These models lack any creativity to the point they are not even able to create a picture of a glass of wine that is completely full. Even I, with my complete lack of artistic skills can draw that, but the computer cannot because it completely lacks any creativity.
But comparing LLM generated Art to a cotton gin or a mechanical loom is ridiculous. Having computers generate "Art" is in no way the same as automating an industrial (or business) process. Art's purpose is self-expression and creativity, the mechanical loom, cotton gin, or robots on a factory floor are about neither of those. And "Art" generate by a computer with an algorithm cannot provide any self-expression or creativity. These models lack any creativity to the point they are not even able to create a picture of a glass of wine that is completely full. Even I, with my complete lack of artistic skills can draw that, but the computer cannot because it completely lacks any creativity.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Such as producing their own rpgs, adventures and supplements.
I consider it ridiculous not to be able to see the similarity. The powered loom took away the livelihoods of craftsmen, much the same as the printing press did away with scribes.
Yes it is, you are removing humans from the task at hand. Note that while computers automate business jobs you are about to see a lot of unemployment within the so called middle class. Zuckerberg has already stated he expects to see AI replace an awful lot of coding jobs this year,,,
which I can not do since I lack the skill, so I can either pay someone to produce the art or use an AI to do it myself. The AI does not ask me if I want some artwork, I have to go to the AI and tell it what to do. My time is valuable.
Cloth making was a skilled craft, weaving patterns etc. was art. Replaced by a punchcard and mechanical loom. Note that a computer controlled loom still has to have a human decide on the design, just like AI art.
I provide the creativity, the AI is just a clever paint set.
Which is why a human and their creativity is needed, AI does not generate art but it can eventually reveal the imagination of the artist.
So there is no problem, the AI can't do anything without a human's creativity.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
nothing on the release schedule so I am guessing it is the next kickstarter?Very soon
* whistles innocently *
In other news, we are about to post something brand new for Traveller in the next few minutes...
