The Pastiches
- Thread starter Supplement Four
- Start date
Believe it or not, I read the Steve Perry book with giant talking worms. I forced myself to read it in about 8 hours. I then, TRULY, threw the book away. I thought about throwing his other books away (the Defiant and Conan the -somehing-else) but could not find them. I still have his other books, but for god-sakes, I don;t know why.
As for 'de Camp, I think his stuff is "fine," not awaed winning, not Howard, but a good read. I enjoyed Spider God. It showed Conan at age 20, thinking, yes CONTEMPLATING, what the other side of life maybe like, instead of being a one-dimensional character of "Me Barbarian, you die!"
Thats all.
As for 'de Camp, I think his stuff is "fine," not awaed winning, not Howard, but a good read. I enjoyed Spider God. It showed Conan at age 20, thinking, yes CONTEMPLATING, what the other side of life maybe like, instead of being a one-dimensional character of "Me Barbarian, you die!"
Thats all.
No it didn't. It showed Conan, at age 20, moping like a first crush 13 year old, and reacting in a way that is inconcievable for Howard's character. And the alternative is NOT "me barbarian, you die!" thankyou very much.
I read Conan the Defiant. It is very very funny: which I don't think was the intent!
Supplement Four
Mongoose
kintire said:
We'll have to disagree. Conan, fresh from the Turanian army, met a chick he dug. I was into it. I totally bought it.
Sorry you didn't like it.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
flatscan said:
And what do you think of the stories Howard rewrote that weren't originally written for the character the story is known for? "Phoenix on the Sword" is a rewritten Kull story (the Kull story didn't sell, but REH felt he could rewrite it for $$$). "Swords of the Red Brotherhood" is a rewritten Conan story that didn't sell. At one time, Howard rewrote "The Frost-Giant's Daughter" for another character. Howard himself was known for "shoe-horning" stories intended for one character into a story for another character for money. I don't think criticizing Lin Carter for the same holds much weight (there are better things to criticize him on).
So I take it you have no interest in "Phoenix on the Sword" because it was intended for a character other than Conan, but was shoe-horned into being a Conan tale for $$$?
He met a chick he dug and was converted to the fundamental fact that being a good, honest solid citizen is vastly superior to that vagabond wandering. If only she hadn't died, he'd have become an honest militiaman, paying his dues.
That might be legitimate for an original character, but if you are writing a Conan pastiche you are expected to at least pretend to stick to the character, and the idea that placid civilised life is 1) Morally superior to barbarism and 2) something that Conan would ever, ever have considered even a little bit as even slightly possible as a lifestyle choice is pathetically ludicrous.
kintire said:
QFT! Howard's Conan would break de Camp's "Conan" in 2. The time this story takes place in Conan's life he'd already been a reaver with the Aesir, killed a couple of frost giants and was instrumental in the death of the most powerful sorceror in Zamora. But de Camp's "Conan" can't even defeat a single foe without some outside circumstance deciding the fight. I guess if you first read about Conan through the pastiches that type of characterization makes sense. But if you're a Howard reader it seems like a bad parody. :roll:
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
So far I have read exclusively the Howard stories (and watched the movies), and the Conan I know would have grabbed that chick he dug and packed her over his shoulder and off into the setting sun we go. And she would have loved it! 
Clovenhoof said:So far I have read exclusively the Howard stories (and watched the movies), and the Conan I know would have grabbed that chick he dug and packed her over his shoulder and off into the setting sun we go. And she would have loved it!
Funny, when reading the story, I kept waiting for that to happen, including the part about her loving it.
Supplement Four
Mongoose
kintire said:
He only considered it. There was never a time in the story where it was ever a real possiblity, though--living the civilized life.
Conan is human. He's a flesh and blood character, not a 2D "barbarian" that only thinks one way. He's grim, but he's also got feelings. He thinks about things.
He dug this chick, and, for a moment, he considered what it would be like to take the "civilized" way of life. Then he disregarded that though, knowing he could never live that way.
I've read both Howard and other Conan writers. Each has a slightly different take. It's crazy to think they'd be the exact same, written by different authors.
You're looking for Howard in the pastiches, and he's just not there. You don't like it. Fine.
Many people like some of the non-Howard stories.
I'm one of them.
And, the way I feel...well, there's more ice cream for me. You don't get any because you don't like the flavor.
Crap flavored ice cream is still crap flavored ice cream.
I'm a big pastiche guy, I love reading more adventures in the Hyborian Age and playing adventures in the Hyborian Age and seeing the legacy of Howard - inspiring creative people. I look at C. Quillims covers and can see REH inspiration. I look at Vincent Darlarge's contributions to the Conan RPG and see REH's inspiration. I read Karl Wagner's stories and see REH's inspiration. I read the review of Conan and the Spider God and see nothing inspired by Howard. For a pastiche that is as bad a comment on quality as you can get, IMO.
I'm a big pastiche guy, I love reading more adventures in the Hyborian Age and playing adventures in the Hyborian Age and seeing the legacy of Howard - inspiring creative people. I look at C. Quillims covers and can see REH inspiration. I look at Vincent Darlarge's contributions to the Conan RPG and see REH's inspiration. I read Karl Wagner's stories and see REH's inspiration. I read the review of Conan and the Spider God and see nothing inspired by Howard. For a pastiche that is as bad a comment on quality as you can get, IMO.
Supplement Four
Mongoose
Finished Offutt's middle book of his loose trilogy, Conan The Mercenary. Parts of this book are extremely well done. Most of it feels very much like "Conan". But, there are a couple of scenes that feel rushed, like Offutt was up against a deadline. He tells you what happens rather than shows you.
I did enjoy most of this book, though. But...there is a scene, a climatic scene, involving Conan (and I won't spoil it for anyone), that is simply not Conan. Conan wouldn't act that way in a million years.
I started off thinking that this book would be better than Offutt's first book in the trilogy, And The Sorcerer. But, I can't get past that one scene that is so very not Conan. Otherwise, Mercenary really isn't a bad Conan read. Not great, but not bad.
Now, I'm off to Offutt's book three: Conan And The Sword of Skelos.
I did enjoy most of this book, though. But...there is a scene, a climatic scene, involving Conan (and I won't spoil it for anyone), that is simply not Conan. Conan wouldn't act that way in a million years.
I started off thinking that this book would be better than Offutt's first book in the trilogy, And The Sorcerer. But, I can't get past that one scene that is so very not Conan. Otherwise, Mercenary really isn't a bad Conan read. Not great, but not bad.
Now, I'm off to Offutt's book three: Conan And The Sword of Skelos.
The King
Cosmic Mongoose
Usually the best part of the pastiches is the beginning, then it usually diverges too much from Howard.
But again, I think the best ratio quality-to-potential adventures is offered by the comics, I mean the Dark Horse reprints and especially Roy Thomas scenarios (though this was already stated) because you not only have good stuff to work out an adventure, but you also have the superb drawings for the ambiance (which no book can ever provide).
But again, I think the best ratio quality-to-potential adventures is offered by the comics, I mean the Dark Horse reprints and especially Roy Thomas scenarios (though this was already stated) because you not only have good stuff to work out an adventure, but you also have the superb drawings for the ambiance (which no book can ever provide).
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
The King said:
My copies of Conan and the Sorcerer and Conan the Mercenary include some superb artwork by Maroto (as do the Ace editions of The Treasure of Tranicos and The Flame Knife).
Also, the Del-Rey set of Howard books recently includes a lot of artwork. Also, the Donald Grant set of Conan books also includes artwork. The original Weird Tales presentations of the Conan stories also have artwork, as does the Gollantz Centenial Edition of The Complete Chronicles of Conan.
And of course - the Frazetta covers for the Lancer/Ace paperbacks - again, book-provided artwork for ambiance.
Buxom Sorceress
Mongoose
the CONAN PASTICHES.
MUST READ:
JOHN MADDOX ROBERTS [ BEST BY FAR - his grim Conan is closest to Howard's] 8)
EMERALD LOTUS [ HOCKING ]
and some other good stuff are by:
WAGNER
JORDAN
MOORE
----
optional :
mostly average, mediocre or poor by:
decamp + carter.
offut
----
self-torture:
can you endure the mostly dire slop by:
perry
carpenter
green [ worst by far ! aaaarrgh ! ] :lol:
----
I have read almost every pastiche, and about 70% of them are just poor, dull, boring, silly, annoying, and very disappointing slop.
[ i collected most of em very cheap 2nd hand ]
--
>> there is a VAST ammount of book reviews and pastiche info at conan.com forums.
the great HOME of Howard and Conan fans.
let us know your views in the book reviews forum there?
MUST READ:
JOHN MADDOX ROBERTS [ BEST BY FAR - his grim Conan is closest to Howard's] 8)
EMERALD LOTUS [ HOCKING ]
and some other good stuff are by:
WAGNER
JORDAN
MOORE
----
optional :
mostly average, mediocre or poor by:
decamp + carter.
offut
----
self-torture:
can you endure the mostly dire slop by:
perry
carpenter
green [ worst by far ! aaaarrgh ! ] :lol:
----
I have read almost every pastiche, and about 70% of them are just poor, dull, boring, silly, annoying, and very disappointing slop.
[ i collected most of em very cheap 2nd hand ]
--
>> there is a VAST ammount of book reviews and pastiche info at conan.com forums.
the great HOME of Howard and Conan fans.
let us know your views in the book reviews forum there?
