The Pastiches

[Supplement Four]

Just finished Conan And The Spider God. I haven't read it in years--so long, that I've actually forgotten most of it. Even the ending surprised me.

I enjoyed the heck out of this book. Some don't like it, I know, but for me, it's extremely "Conan". Very enjoyable. Highly recommended.

Where as many Conan tales seem to exist all by themselves, floating out there in the ethos, with no connection to any other Conan tale, this one feels like a segment of a whole. It feels like it's just one book of many--a chapter in a life.

I loved the book. If you can get your hands on a copy, you may like it as well.

 

[The King]

The most stupid thing is this book is the swamp cat thing: a feline that moves like a rabbit/frog (i.e. with jumps from its hinderlegs).

 

[sgstyrsky]

I just finished two Leonard Carpenter novels: "Conan the Great" and "Lord of the Black River". Both were entertaining. Carpenter is an accomplished prose writer, his narrative is exciting and never repetitive.

The plots were similar (return of a long-dead god) and the final confrontations seem like an afterthought.

I've only read Maddox's "Conan the Marauder". One of the best pastiches I've read. I recommend it.

"Conan and the Emerald Lotus" is really good too. The villain was well-developed and thoroughly evil. Hocking's descriptions of what the Emerald Lotus does to its victims left me shaken.

 

[Supplement Four]

The most stupid thing is this book is the swamp cat thing: a feline that moves like a rabbit/frog (i.e. with jumps from its hinderlegs).

I liked it. In fact, I thought of making stats for the game (if it's not already in the Hyborian Beastiary...haven't looked).

 

[Strom]

Interesting review of Conan and the Spider God on the REHupa blog:


http://www.rehupa.com/?p=420

 

[Krushnak]

Reading that review posted by Strom makes me glad ive never read Conan and the Spider God. How can someone screw up the character of Conan so much?

 

[Style]

Interesting review of Conan and the Spider God on the REHupa blog:


http://www.rehupa.com/?p=420

That was hilarious. Thanks Strom, I needed a good laugh.

Here's one gem from the review:

For the time being though the smitten Conan is far more concerned with impressing his girl with his credentials as a wine connoisseur.

“Conan endeavoured to pursue the civilized custom of sniffing the aroma and delicately savouring each sip.”

Hook Howard’s grave up to a generator and I reckon the dynamo revolutions produced by this particular passage could power a city block.

 

[kintire]

That review is made of awesome. Its like what I said, but with better words.

 

[Supplement Four]

Well, not all of us feel that way about Spider God. Like I said, I really enjoyed it. It's a good Conan read.

I just finished Offutt's Conan And The Sorcerer, too. Again, I really liked it. I didn't think it was as good as de Camp's Spider God, but a good read none-the-less.

 

[flatscan]

Interesting review of Conan and the Spider God on the REHupa blog:


http://www.rehupa.com/?p=420

Wow. :shock:

I already had no interest in reading non-Howard Conan works other than the Dark Horse comics, but this thread was making me curious. After reading that review, forget about it. Life's too short to read such tripe. :evil:

Thanks for the link Strom

 

[Supplement Four]

For the time being though the smitten Conan is far more concerned with impressing his girl with his credentials as a wine connoisseur.

“Conan endeavoured to pursue the civilized custom of sniffing the aroma and delicately savouring each sip.”

Hook Howard’s grave up to a generator and I reckon the dynamo revolutions produced by this particular passage could power a city block.

I know this is going to start a discussion in which I really don't want to participate. I mean, if you like the pastiches, like me, then good for you. There's more Conan for you to enjoy. If you don't like the non-Howard stories, then nobody is forcing you to read them.

The whole point of that scene, above, shows Conan being someone he's not. He's just gotten out of the army. He's trying to impress a chick, and he's seen these so-called "civilized" people do the wine sniffing. He's mimicking them. He doesn't know what he's doing at all.

At this point in his life, he's been among the Hyborians for 4+ years, 2 of those years as a thief in Zamora and another 2 in the Turanian army.

The passage reflects the affect his environment is starting to have on him.

As I said, I dug it. It might not be for everyone, but I highly recommend Spider God. I like de Camp's writing.

And, having just read Offutt's Conan And The Sorcerer, I'll say that the book's first chapter is outstanding and shows some similar environmental effects.

In Howard's The Elephant in the Tower, we see a brash youth who knows no better, curious at the ways of the modern Hyborians (even though he's among the Zamorians and not the Hyborians).

In Conan And The Sorcerer, we see that youth starting to change a bit. The story takes place not too long after Elephant.

Spider God is two years later, after traveling to the far east and south with Turan's Army, growing to the rank of Captain and stationed in Turan's capital.

Maybe I have a different perspective of Conan since I've been reading all the stories by the various authors in chronological order. It's probably a different perspective than going from straight Howard to all the other Conan stories.

But, I do like them. There's several exceptional non-Howard stories out there (and a few stinkers as well).

 

[kintire]

The whole point of that scene, above, shows Conan being someone he's not. He's just gotten out of the army. He's trying to impress a chick, and he's seen these so-called "civilized" people do the wine sniffing. He's mimicking them. He doesn't know what he's doing at all.

The first sentence of your paragraph sums up the entire book. It shows Conan being someone he's not.

Conan is not an incompetent overrated brainless buffoon. The main character of "Spider God" is. And above all else, he is not Conan.

Just compare these two quotes;

“fierce desire, like a tornado whirling along its serpentine path of destruction, surged up within him, to give up his rootless, adventurous life, to wed Rudabeh according to the laws of Zamora, and to become, as best he might, a solid citizen who cherished his growing family, joined the municipal watch, worshipped at the temple, and paid his tithes.”

Conan put his back against the wall and lifted his ax. He stood like an image of the unconquerable primordial — legs braced far apart, head thrust forward, one hand clutching the wall for support, the other gripping the ax on high, with the great corded muscles standing out in iron ridges, and his features frozen in a death snarl of fury — his eyes blazing terribly through the mist of blood which veiled them. The men faltered — wild, criminal and dissolute though they were, yet they came of a breed men called civilized, with a civilized background; here was the barbarian — the natural killer. They shrank back — the dying tiger could still deal death.

Conan sensed their uncertainty and grinned mirthlessly and ferociously. "Who dies first?"

Desire to become a solid citizen... bah! The reason you think it fits well with Conan's development is because you are reading his development in the deCamp driven pastiches... and i bet when you say "Chronological order" you're using deCamp's chronology as well. Try reading Howard's stories in their actual chronological order: then you'll see how nuts this is.

And, having just read Offutt's Conan And The Sorcerer, I'll say that the book's first chapter is outstanding and shows some similar environmental effects.

I have trouble with Offut. The first one of his I read was Swords of Skelos, whioh began with a bit of cheery ribbing about how anyone would need a dictionary because he had used wierd words. I found his style excessively wordy and self important, and he needs a rather more careful scan of a dictionary himself. I was not set off well by the first scene where a group of guards trying to arrest Conan burst in and level their Hauberks at him. Also, the very end was rubbish. Still, the bulk of the story was pretty good, and he had some interesting characters in it.

I already had no interest in reading non-Howard Conan works other than the Dark Horse comics, but this thread was making me curious. After reading that review, forget about it. Life's too short to read such tripe.

That's a little extreme. From reading that blog it seems that the community their has split into rabid pro deCamp and rabid anti. I'm neither. Conan and the Spider God is rubbish, but the same is not true of all of deCamp's stuff. Thing in the Crypt is excellent, up to the standard of the best of Howard's stuff. I don't agree with the complaints about Hall of the Dead either. I find it an effective and well written tale. Several of the other pastiches are also well worth reading.

 

[flatscan]

That's a little extreme. From reading that blog it seems that the community their has split into rabid pro deCamp and rabid anti. I'm neither. Conan and the Spider God is rubbish, but the same is not true of all of deCamp's stuff. Thing in the Crypt is excellent, up to the standard of the best of Howard's stuff. I don't agree with the complaints about Hall of the Dead either. I find it an effective and well written tale. Several of the other pastiches are also well worth reading.

From what I've read about the Thing in the Crypt it was originally intended to be a story for Lin Carter's "original" creation Thongor. I have no interest in reading a story that was intended for a character other than Conan (they call Conan a "stripling" in that story and this sits well with you?), but shoe-horned into being a Conan tale for $$$. Just not interested in reading a bunch of dressing on stories that either didn't need them or were not written for the character on the title of the book. YMMV.

 

[Majestic7]

That review of actually made me want to read the book, if I can get it somewhere for free... Something so awful have to be almost good.

 

[Axerules]

The whole point of that scene, above, shows Conan being someone he's not. He's just gotten out of the army. He's trying to impress a chick, and he's seen these so-called "civilized" people do the wine sniffing. He's mimicking them. He doesn't know what he's doing at all.

The first sentence of your paragraph sums up the entire book. It shows Conan being someone he's not.

Conan is not an incompetent overrated brainless buffoon. The main character of "Spider God" is. And above all else, he is not Conan.

Just compare these two quotes;

“fierce desire, like a tornado whirling along its serpentine path of destruction, surged up within him, to give up his rootless, adventurous life, to wed Rudabeh according to the laws of Zamora, and to become, as best he might, a solid citizen who cherished his growing family, joined the municipal watch, worshipped at the temple, and paid his tithes.”

Conan put his back against the wall and lifted his ax. He stood like an image of the unconquerable primordial — legs braced far apart, head thrust forward, one hand clutching the wall for support, the other gripping the ax on high, with the great corded muscles standing out in iron ridges, and his features frozen in a death snarl of fury — his eyes blazing terribly through the mist of blood which veiled them. The men faltered — wild, criminal and dissolute though they were, yet they came of a breed men called civilized, with a civilized background; here was the barbarian — the natural killer. They shrank back — the dying tiger could still deal death.

Conan sensed their uncertainty and grinned mirthlessly and ferociously. "Who dies first?"

Desire to become a solid citizen... bah! The reason you think it fits well with Conan's development is because you are reading his development in the deCamp driven pastiches... and i bet when you say "Chronological order" you're using deCamp's chronology as well. Try reading Howard's stories in their actual chronological order: then you'll see how nuts this is.

So true.
Spider God sucked. Like you quoted it "Desire to become a solid citizen" was totally stupid. Hard to write something more anti-Howardian. The "guy called Co-nan" in this novel is supposed to become a pirate later even in the inaccurate De Campian chronology, for Crom's sake!

"Civilization vs Barbarism": LSdC was in the former camp, REH in the latter. If my memory is correct, in Conan of Aquilonia Sprague blattered about how king Conan "no more a young brash barbarian" (or something close) punishes soldiers to make'em learn the virtues of discipline...
Kintire quoted a nice passage ("here was the barbarian"). I could go on. Even when he becomes a king, REH's Conan ISN'T the epitomy of civilization.

I'm not bitching about Sprague's writing abilities, but IMHO, "worldview-wise" he was a very poor choice for "expanding the Conan legend".
Better read something written by JM Roberts.

 

[Axerules]

Reading that review posted by Strom makes me glad ive never read Conan and the Spider God. How can someone screw up the character of Conan so much?

Ever read a pastiche written by S. Perry?

 

[kintire]

Ever read a pastiche written by S. Perry?

Indeed I have. And i treasure the memory. The knowledge it has given me that, when I am reading a Conan pastiche, however bad the effort is, it could be worse... it could be Perry

 

[Supplement Four]

Ever read a pastiche written by S. Perry?

Indeed I have. And i treasure the memory. The knowledge it has given me that, when I am reading a Conan pastiche, however bad the effort is, it could be worse... it could be Perry

We're in total agreement here. I do like de Camp's Spider God, but all four of the Perry books are next to unreadable. They're so bad, it's ridiculous.

 

[The King]

I remember pink giant worms which were talking and looking like pricks with a sorceress riding them like one ride horses.
The only good idea was the magical merging in one body of 2 lovers.

 

[Supplement Four]

I remember pink giant worms which were talking and looking like pricks with a sorceress riding them like one ride horses.
The only good idea was the magical merging in one body of 2 lovers.

I read that book about five years ago, and, for the life of me, I can't remember a word. I just remember all four of Perry's books being bad, bad, bad (not just bad Conan...bad books).

OTOH, I'm about halfway through Offutt's Conan The Mercenary, and I'm lovin' it. It's a good read.

There's a scene that I just finished where Conan and his mercenary buddy, Shubal, walk into a dive in Khauran. The place is small, holding just five table, two large and three small. Offutt's has an "atmosphere" to his writing that I like. He describes the scenery, smells, food, the bone handle of Conan's dirk, in a way that really put me "there".

Anyway, in this tavern, a discussion breaks out about gods. It cracks me up. I've been in bars where conversations like this took place. The discussion is about Ishtar, and the guy in the corner looks up from his mug, in a half-drunken stare, and speaks loudly about Derketo. He got the broad topic (gods) right, but of the specific topic he had no idea.

One drunk says, "Bel was born in Shumer, of Shem, precisely fourt thousand nine years ago, which is a day before the world began."

Another drunk chimes in, "Who said anything about Bel?"

Nobody knows what they're talking about, but they're all know-it-alls.

Good scene.