A
Anonymous
Guest
Does anyone have any stats for a garrot? I have a PC who wants to use one. It would seem to me to be a weapon used in a grapple, maybe doing extra damage or bonus to strangulation.
Sutek
Mongoose
Here's what I'd say do.
Grapple Check first. This is based off a "to hit roll" followed by an immediate opposed STR test should the attack be successful. The Garrot might provide a +2 to that test because it's wrapped around the victim's neck, but I'd think it wasn't necessary.
I'd say that it's a Finesse Weapon.
I'd say that it has nil AP, even though that's really irrelevant being a Finesse weapon, but it means that STR mod can't add for AP purposes should someone wish not to use it as Finesse.
Damage, non-lethal or otherwise, is so superficial as to not be counted. Doesn't matter. Essentially, a Garrot deals no damage. However, it grants an attach the same as if the weilder possessed the Choke feat as listed on page 189 of The Road of Kings.
I fyou dont' have that book yet, so I don't have to type all that here and violate copyright (hehe) you could alternatively have the Garrot deal non-lethal damage as indicated on pages 173-4 for the rule book.
How's that sound? 8)
Grapple Check first. This is based off a "to hit roll" followed by an immediate opposed STR test should the attack be successful. The Garrot might provide a +2 to that test because it's wrapped around the victim's neck, but I'd think it wasn't necessary.
I'd say that it's a Finesse Weapon.
I'd say that it has nil AP, even though that's really irrelevant being a Finesse weapon, but it means that STR mod can't add for AP purposes should someone wish not to use it as Finesse.
Damage, non-lethal or otherwise, is so superficial as to not be counted. Doesn't matter. Essentially, a Garrot deals no damage. However, it grants an attach the same as if the weilder possessed the Choke feat as listed on page 189 of The Road of Kings.
I fyou dont' have that book yet, so I don't have to type all that here and violate copyright (hehe) you could alternatively have the Garrot deal non-lethal damage as indicated on pages 173-4 for the rule book.
How's that sound? 8)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sutek said:
Sounds very cool. I did notice the Choke feat and thought about using it as a guideline.
Question: if it deals no damage and uses the Choke feat, does it even need an AP or be a finesse weapon? Simply just treat it as a normal grapple with the bonus effects of the feat.
Simple Weapons: light
Garrote, cord 0sp 1d6 19-20/2 AP0 hard 0 HP 2 B finesse
Garrote, wire 1sp 1d8 18-20/2 AP0 hard 2 HP 2 S finesse
Garrote, cord a stout length of rope used to strangle an opponent. Because a cord garrote can be easily improvised from so many materials there is no penalty for using an improvised garrote.
Garrote, wire a piece of wire wound around two wooden handles. If you use a wire garrote without the handles you take 1d3 damage each time you attampt to deal damage with the garrote (weither or not your attempt was successful).
Special garrote rules. A garrote may only be used in a grapple and only against creatures no more than two size categories larger than you. Although a garrote is a light (finessable) weapon you use two hands to wield it and apply 1.5*Str bonus to its damage. In order to use a garrote you must first establish a grapple and then establish a pin. When you establish a pin you automatically deal garrote damage. While your opponent remains pinned you may use any remaining attacks to attack your opponent with the garrote (normally you can only deal damage with a grapple check while pinning) and you do not suffer the -4 penalty normally assoicated for attacking an opponent while engaged in a grapple. All other results of pinning remain unchanged.
Garrote, cord 0sp 1d6 19-20/2 AP0 hard 0 HP 2 B finesse
Garrote, wire 1sp 1d8 18-20/2 AP0 hard 2 HP 2 S finesse
Garrote, cord a stout length of rope used to strangle an opponent. Because a cord garrote can be easily improvised from so many materials there is no penalty for using an improvised garrote.
Garrote, wire a piece of wire wound around two wooden handles. If you use a wire garrote without the handles you take 1d3 damage each time you attampt to deal damage with the garrote (weither or not your attempt was successful).
Special garrote rules. A garrote may only be used in a grapple and only against creatures no more than two size categories larger than you. Although a garrote is a light (finessable) weapon you use two hands to wield it and apply 1.5*Str bonus to its damage. In order to use a garrote you must first establish a grapple and then establish a pin. When you establish a pin you automatically deal garrote damage. While your opponent remains pinned you may use any remaining attacks to attack your opponent with the garrote (normally you can only deal damage with a grapple check while pinning) and you do not suffer the -4 penalty normally assoicated for attacking an opponent while engaged in a grapple. All other results of pinning remain unchanged.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Cheers argo. Very cool.
sbarrie
Mongoose
Sutek said:Something tells me there's no wire in Hyborea, but those are decent too.
Garrots are the only use of wire in Hyboria. Afghuli smiths have devised a method to pull steel into thin strands and create a weapon which silently kills unsuspecting travellers in their lands.
I made that up, of course. But there's no reason it couldn't be true.
So what do you think chain mail is made out of? :wink:Sutek said:Something tells me there's no wire in Hyborea, but those are decent too.
Wire is incredibly easy to make, you just use pliers to pull the metal through progressively smaller rings until you get the desired thickness. In a pre-electrical society it is probably used mostly for jewerly or to wrap tightly around something else (sword hilt) and hammer into a solid mass. But I'd bet some assasin somewhere has figgured this one out by now.
Of course all the really nasty religious assasin death-cults strangle their victims with silk kerchifs they keep tucked in their loincloth (thank you Glen Cook! :twisted: ). For stuff like that use the cord garrote stats.
Sutek
Mongoose
Hammered and bent metal strips, cut and then shaped into rings. Wire pulling doesn't necessarily equate to mail armor, other wise the Romans would have had mail armor. They had wire.
Anyway, good ideas all around. You folks wanting a Garrot, each of these are pretty good, but whatever you do, make it Finesse.
Anyway, good ideas all around. You folks wanting a Garrot, each of these are pretty good, but whatever you do, make it Finesse.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sutek said:
As a finesse weapon, how would this impact subsequent grapple rolls?
In a grapple you have two options. You can either Damage Your Opponent, in which case you make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack and if you win you deal your opponent damage as if with an unarmed strike. There is no rule for finesse or AP when doing this as it is not an attack roll but I use a House Rule that grapple damage ignores DR outright. Or you can use an attack to Attack Your Opponent using an unarmed strike, natural weapon or light weapon in which case you make a normal attack roll against your opponent's DV (no opposed roll) but with a -4 penalty, in such a case you can still threaten a critical and I'd also assume you can use finesse rules normally. You can also Use Your Opponent's Weapon Against Him which requires an opposed grapple check followed by an attack roll at -4.Anonymous said:
If you have pinned your opponent you cannot Attack Your Opponent only Damage him or Use His Weapon against him.
With my special rules for garrotes you cannot use a garrote until you pin your opponent but then you may use the garrote to Attack Your Opponent (attack roll against DV, can make a finesse attack) without the normal -4 penalty. Add in the fact that establishing a pin deals garrote damage and that a garrote deals 1.5 Str damage (every other grapple option only deals Str damage) and that makes the garrote the best option for grappling damage.
Glad you like it Hal.
Sutek said:Hammered and bent metal strips, cut and then shaped into rings. Wire pulling doesn't necessarily equate to mail armor, other wise the Romans would have had mail armor. They had wire.
They did have mail. The lorica hamata was originally issued to the Roman auxiliaries during the height of Rome's power. As time went on and the empire began to collapse, the legions also started to wear the hamata instead of the lorica segmentata – since they were increasingly made up of foreigners who served in the auxiliaries to begin with.
In fact, pretty much every culture from the Far East to the British Isles, from Persia to Scandinavia, developed linked mail at some point, more or less independently of the others. Celtic "barbarians" had chainmail, as did the Greeks at Troy.
A
Anonymous
Guest
argo said:
Cool, that was my issue. I couldn't quite work out whether the suggestion of finesse had any impact on the grapple roll to cause damage.
Cheers again argo.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Dear All,
The Romans certainly did have chain mail - the Greeks at Troy definitely did not, however. Troy was besieged in the late bronze age - centuries before the invention of chain mail.
Mail seems to have been an Iron age Celtic invention (although very rapidly copied by every culture who encountered it).
Wire is a very simple product and widely used, but mail links, for chain mail are produced by punching out the links, not by drawing (except for most Modern mail and some historical Oriental types).
All the best
The Romans certainly did have chain mail - the Greeks at Troy definitely did not, however. Troy was besieged in the late bronze age - centuries before the invention of chain mail.
Mail seems to have been an Iron age Celtic invention (although very rapidly copied by every culture who encountered it).
Wire is a very simple product and widely used, but mail links, for chain mail are produced by punching out the links, not by drawing (except for most Modern mail and some historical Oriental types).
All the best
Judge Walker
Mongoose
The use of mail can be traced back to the 1st half of the 2nd Century BC.
