The Enemy Within Conversion

[elfandghost]

I was about to start running the Enemy Within Campaign with Warhammer 1st Edition. However I'm so impressed with RQII that I'm going to go ahead and use Runequest to run it!

This enables me to do several things, including altering the Warhammer World more to my suiting which the 1st Edition isn't far off anyway. I can see that I'm going to have to alter the races which seems fairy simple, magic is perfect Common for Petty and Battle magic, Sorcery for Chaos and more powerful magic, Spirit magic for Druids and Runes for Dwarves!

Now before I go ahead is there anything available for conversions that have already been done?

Cheers

CB

 

[camocoffey]

We've a Warhammer Old World campaign going at the minute, using the WFRP2 rulebook as our source material and RQ2 for the rules. The setting translates very well indeed. The cults are pretty straightforward to translate (Sigmar teaches True Hammer for instance). Sorcerers will belong to one of the Colleges of Magic. My healer mage is a student of the Green Order, who has read from the Jade Book: learning Treat Wounds, Regenerate, Palsy, etc. The main setting implication is that magic is generally considered dangerous and risky, and fumbled spells may well incur the Curse of Tzeench. This is left up to the GM, but we invite him to be horrible. It wouldn't be the Old World without raw magic opening gates to the Warp.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

We've a Warhammer Old World campaign going at the minute, using the WFRP2 rulebook as our source material and RQ2 for the rules. The setting translates very well indeed. The cults are pretty straightforward to translate (Sigmar teaches True Hammer for instance). Sorcerers will belong to one of the Colleges of Magic. My healer mage is a student of the Green Order, who has read from the Jade Book: learning Treat Wounds, Regenerate, Palsy, etc. The main setting implication is that magic is generally considered dangerous and risky, and fumbled spells may well incur the Curse of Tzeench. This is left up to the GM, but we invite him to be horrible. It wouldn't be the Old World without raw magic opening gates to the Warp.

Can a Tzeentch's Curse only come up on a fumble the way you're playing?

Under the WFRP2 rules it can occur on a successful casting just as much as on a failed one - but is more likely on a more powerful spell (indeed it can't occur on lower level spells where the wizard is only rolling 1 d10 as its triggered by doubles coming up when 2 d10 or more are rolled).

I've idly wondered whether there's any way to replicate this smoothly under MRQII (i.e. without a separate die roll), but haven't come up with a good way to do it.

I can understand confining it to fumbles, but that loses the flavour that even a successfully invoked spell can end up having unintended and dire side effects.

On the other hand just making it come up when a double is rolled on the wizard's grimoire skill test doesn't reflect the increasing likelihood of it occurring with more powerful spells.

 

[elfandghost]

We've a Warhammer Old World campaign going at the minute, using the WFRP2 rulebook as our source material and RQ2 for the rules. The setting translates very well indeed. The cults are pretty straightforward to translate (Sigmar teaches True Hammer for instance). Sorcerers will belong to one of the Colleges of Magic. My healer mage is a student of the Green Order, who has read from the Jade Book: learning Treat Wounds, Regenerate, Palsy, etc. The main setting implication is that magic is generally considered dangerous and risky, and fumbled spells may well incur the Curse of Tzeench. This is left up to the GM, but we invite him to be horrible. It wouldn't be the Old World without raw magic opening gates to the Warp.

I did think that it would work and that it will actually work better than the actual WFRP rules of either 1st or 2nd Edition, I'm not going to even think about the 3rd.

Curious that you use the 2nd Edition at background material rather than the 1st as usually most prefer the 1st Editon World?

I don't suppose your GM has run the Enemy Within with this, even so how deadly do you find Warhammer in this way? Any problems with conversions that you know of?

 

[PhilHibbs]

How about linking it to the Magnitude of the spell, if the double number is less than the magnitude, so 00 for a Magnitude 1, 00 or 11 for Mag 2, 00,11,22 for Mag 3 etc.?

 

[Deleriad]

Can a Tzeentch's Curse only come up on a fumble the way you're playing?

Under the WFRP2 rules it can occur on a successful casting just as much as on a failed one - but is more likely on a more powerful spell (indeed it can't occur on lower level spells where the wizard is only rolling 1 d10 as its triggered by doubles coming up when 2 d10 or more are rolled).

I've idly wondered whether there's any way to replicate this smoothly under MRQII (i.e. without a separate die roll), but haven't come up with a good way to do it.

I can understand confining it to fumbles, but that loses the flavour that even a successfully invoked spell can end up having unintended and dire side effects.

On the other hand just making it come up when a double is rolled on the wizard's grimoire skill test doesn't reflect the increasing likelihood of it occurring with more powerful spells.

Would be hard to do in MRQ. Does the curse effect only happen with sorcery or could it happen with higher magic (e.g. divine) or even lower magic (common?)

From the looks of it in WFRP sorcery the power of the spell is determined by the spell while in MRQ sorcery the power of the spell is determined by the skill of the caster. That has a huge implication for the 'flavour' of magic. For sorcery I would be tempted to say that the curse might be triggered when Manipulation is used on a sorcery spell. To be honest I probably would use extra "botch dice" probably d10s. Roll 1d10 per MP in the spell and if more than 1 shows the same number then the curse has been triggered. An unmanipulated spell would only have 1 'botch' die so couldn't trigger therefore no need to roll any extra dice. With 1 manipulation (costing 2MPs) 2 dice are rolled, 2 Manipulations (3 MPs) 3 dice are rolled and so on.

The very fact that the sorcerer is rolling extra botch dice will add tension and tend to make the sorcerer very wary of manipulation. That sounds to me like it would capture the flavour quite well.

Divine would be trickier but I don't know the setting enough to tell if you would risk triggering the curse when casting it. Divine Magic comes in three power ranks (initiate, acolyte, lord/priest) so you would figure the triggering chance depends on that.

 

[elfandghost]

I was thinking that perhaps after a failed casting attempt with either Sorcery or Common that another dice is rolled possibly resulting in Chaos being drawn to the area. With Sorcery having a greater chance of it happening and Common less, in the case of criticals and fumbles the same thing.

Divine magic is normally excempt from Chaos, Spirit Magic - which I intend to use for Druids I'm undecided upon although Chaos free Chaos may attempt to corrupt it.

I was actually quite impressed flicking through the Monster Coliseum to find a Chaos mutation table! Its like being at home with WFRP!

 

[Da Boss]

Magic can also be easier (but more prone to manifestations) depending on the "background" level of magic. You could set up a Standard chance of manifestation in a given area - something like 5% plus MP used in the spell casting and the GM can roll (and fudge as he or she wants ) but this could be quite fiddely..............

I always felt that the Divine magic does has effects of Chaos but in a different form channelled by the parton God - who are all part of the Realm of Chaos but in a mroe or less beign form?

WFRP 2 best (IMO) change was to make the magic dangerous rather than the quite bland handling in 1st ed.

Curious that you use the 2nd Edition at background material rather than the 1st as usually most prefer the 1st Editon World? Not sure about that - I have pretty much everything for both editions and feel they merge very well - what areas did you not like in 2nd Ed?

The only big changes can recall off hand -

Storm of Chaos - I quite like the setting
No Fimir - well you can put them back
No Old Faith to speak off - no major loss

the background books (Children of the Horned Rat, Masters of the Night etc were very good) seemed to expand the world rather than change massively?

Must admit no idea about 3rd Ed..............

 

[elfandghost]

I always felt that the Divine magic does has effects of Chaos but in a different form channelled by the parton God - who are all part of the Realm of Chaos but in a mroe or less beign form?

WFRP 2 best (IMO) change was to make the magic dangerous rather than the quite bland handling in 1st ed.

Curious that you use the 2nd Edition at background material rather than the 1st as usually most prefer the 1st Editon World? Not sure about that - I have pretty much everything for both editions and feel they merge very well - what areas did you not like in 2nd Ed?

The only big changes can recall off hand -

Storm of Chaos - I quite like the setting
No Fimir - well you can put them back
No Old Faith to speak off - no major loss

the background books (Children of the Horned Rat, Masters of the Night etc were very good) seemed to expand the world rather than change massively?

Must admit no idea about 3rd Ed..............

I think there you have as regards to the 2nd Edition

Storm of Chaos - didn't like - though my Warhammer World is different anyway.
No Fimir - I love Fimir
No Old Faith - I love the Old Faith, along with Zoats, Malar, Law Gods - strange Chaos gods in The Enemy Within. I liked the quirkyness of it all.

For me the 2nd Edition was just trying to tie the setting more to the then current Warhammer Battle World. I don't like the Warhammer Fantasy Battle World - horrible place to roleplay in my opinion of course! And I didn't like the idea of vast armies of Undead and actual large numbers of anything else aside from humans as that just seems to come from the Battle aspect.

As for Divine magic - it would depend on where you say the Gods are from in my Warhammer world there aren't as many and they are free from Chaos - well Chaos before it went 'wrong'. Although you are perhaps right as indivduals aren't - if a failure occurs Chaos may try and corrupt even a paragon!

 

[Deleriad]

I was actually quite impressed flicking through the Monster Coliseum to find a Chaos mutation table! Its like being at home with WFRP!

Well, an awful lot of WFRP 1st ed was RuneQuest with the numbers filed off, especially the chaos mutations, beastmen (broos) and so on.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

From the looks of it in WFRP sorcery the power of the spell is determined by the spell while in MRQ sorcery the power of the spell is determined by the skill of the caster. That has a huge implication for the 'flavour' of magic. For sorcery I would be tempted to say that the curse might be triggered when Manipulation is used on a sorcery spell. To be honest I probably would use extra "botch dice" probably d10s. Roll 1d10 per MP in the spell and if more than 1 shows the same number then the curse has been triggered. An unmanipulated spell would only have 1 'botch' die so couldn't trigger therefore no need to roll any extra dice. With 1 manipulation (costing 2MPs) 2 dice are rolled, 2 Manipulations (3 MPs) 3 dice are rolled and so on.

Yeah - something like that is probably the best compromise - certainly it has to be linked to the magnitude of the spell.

I just think it's rather neat that in WFRP you can work out success/failure and presence/absence of curse from the same dice roll - but, as you say I don't think that really feasible in MRQ.

 

[Deleriad]

Yeah - something like that is probably the best compromise - certainly it has to be linked to the magnitude of the spell.

I just think it's rather neat that in WFRP you can work out success/failure and presence/absence of curse from the same dice roll - but, as you say I don't think that really feasible in MRQ.

Don't forget that Magnitude means something very different in MRQ. E.g. a Sorcerer casting a Wrack spell with 100% skill might do 1d10 damage (don't have table in front of me) while someone with 30% skill does 1d4. Both spells would be Magnitude 1. The 30%er could use Manipulation to increase its magnitide (say to 5) but it would still do only 1d4 damage. So you could have a Magnituide 5 spell doing 1d4 damage while a Magnitude 1 spell does 1d10.

To use D&D style terminology: the level of a sorcery spell equals the caster level. There is no inherent level to a RQ sorcery spell. All sorcery spells cost 1 MP. That's why I think it would work nicely if Manipulation is the key.

 

[superc0ntra]

It is an excellent campaign. I played it several years ago with WH rules and believer RQ2 would be a perfect system for playing it.

Sergei Krutov - Witchfinder General of the Empire

 

[elfandghost]

The Cult of Sigmar

Ok, this is my first attempt at altering the religions of Warhammer over to RuneQuest. Let me know what you think, oh and as this is my "Old World" there are a few differences.

SIGMAR
For The Empire

Runes: Law, Light, Man

Cult Skills:

Hammer Sect 2H Hammers, Hammer & Shield, Pact (Sigmar) Brawn, Athletics, First Aid

Torch Sect Pact (Sigmar), Oratory, Persistence, Insight, Crossbow, 2H Sword, Firearms

Anvil Sect

Pact (Sigmar), Lore (Sigmar), Lore (Empire), Meditation

Worshipper Duties: Aid the Empire, destroy Chaos

Cult Spells:

Hammer Sect: Common - Strength, Heal, Protection, Blessing
Divine: Consecrate, True, Courage

Torch Sect: Common -Bearing Witness, Counter Magic, Detect X, Blessing
Divine: Consecrate, exorcism, Courage

Anvil Sect: Common - Abacus, Understanding, light, Blessing
Divine: Consecrate, Mend Mind

 

[PhilHibbs]

Cult Skills:
Anvil Sect

Pact (Sigmar), Lore (Sigmar), Lore (Empire), Meditation

Having a cult with only 4 Cult Skills is going to make advancement... challenging.

 

[elfandghost]

Cult Skills:
Anvil Sect

Pact (Sigmar), Lore (Sigmar), Lore (Empire), Meditation

Having a cult with only 4 Cult Skills is going to make advancement... challenging.

Ha, I looked through the Cult examples in the main Rulebook and saw that they only have about the same? Is it neccesary to list all skills that need advancing?

Perhaps I should wait until the Cults book is out to compare?

Also as with the Necromancy book is there a 'Demonolgy' book planned or even a previous edition book with Chaos Magic and/or Demon summoning spells in? Possibly an Elric book?

 

[PhilHibbs]

Requirements for Pious Member (e.g. Initiate):

The character must know five of the cult skills of at least 30%.

Kind of hard if there aren't five cult skills.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

Also as with the Necromancy book is there a 'Demonolgy' book planned or even a previous edition book with Chaos Magic and/or Demon summoning spells in? Possibly an Elric book?

There were summoning rules in MRQ1 Elric which also appeared - in a slightly more generic version - in the MRQ1 Game Master's Handbook.

It was a separate system from other forms of magic so could be used with MRQ2 fairly easily. But summoning rules fully integrated into the MRQ2 ruleset will no doubt appear in the revised Elric book.

There is also a "Summon [Entity]" sorcery spell in the Deus Vult rulebook.