The Boresight White Star

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Hindsight

Mongoose
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I was watching Thirdspace tonight, while preparing my new ISA Fleet Box for tomorrows campaign, and as Sheridan was arming a nuke on the Thirdspace gate, one of the White Stars comes upon one of these Thirdspace aliens, and it sits still, while the beam actively tracks this enemy craft. I rewound it, and took a screenshot, as this shows the White Star firing the beam off bore, and hopefully brings that debate to more of a close.

The White Star's beam is mounted forward, but much like Minbari Beams, has an arc to it. I imagine I could find similar evidence showing the G'Quan firing off bore also... but yea, at least for the White Stars... the ship does not need to move, to track a target with the beam, the beam can rotate all its own and follow an enemy craft.

Cheers,
 
The ship in the show doesn't have one restriction the game must have.

Balance.

Okay, I know any talk of balance in reference to this game is a bizarre one (Raiders anyone?), but White Stars are so maneuverable that making them arc instead of boresight is overpowered. There needs to be something to keep them in check.
 
People have always complained that there is no evidence that the white star had a forward arc and was only bore!

Now that we have the evidence they are again complaining that they are so maneuverable that it should be to balance things up!!!!

You just cant please some people!!! :D
 
ROFL, its like gas on the fire. Like throwing a Centauri into a pit of Narns!

When we cut the White Stars beam down to somewhere between 8 and 12 inches I totally gave up on the bore sight idea. I think a 10 inch beam is perfect for the WS (with 12 inch pulsars). Races with crappy ass secondary range aside (narn, abbai), this is a wonderful balance for the White Star. It gets in there and fights tooth and nail like it should. I love it. None of this sniper crap. It would really be the perfect fix to the WS. Those races with crap secondaries need other fixes.
 
I suggest making the WS boresight, and putting a F-arc refit in the Refits table would nicely cover this occurance! ;)

Regards,

Dave
 
Or best yet, make bore sight a 30 degree arc! That fixes countless problems!

And don't give me those too difficult arguments. Anyone that went through 4th grade knows how to use a protractor.
 
I fought with White Star weapons at 10" & !0" and that did the trick too. In fact as I was fighting Minbari and Psi Cops both with stealth I was almost always within 8".

Close in like that the white Stars turning ability came to the fore. I won both games with some well below average dice rolls. I didn't bother with Boresight for the White Stars either and what's more the way they were being used felt right.

Didn't get round to fighting the Narn but if I had I'd have upped secondary's on battle and above to 10" and I'm still very confident the White Stars would have prevailed.
 
http://www.babtech-onthe.net/ea/eawarships.htm

Half way down the page, "shootcivilians.avi", captioned "Pollux destroys two commercial liners "; Omega fires forward beams sweeping left to right.

The vast majority of Omegas seen in the show shoot on bore and then occasionally they do not. Same deal with the Whitestar's beam, they're boresighted all the time except for when they aren't.

This is one issue that the show just doesn't cover well. Lengthy technical discussions do not exciting Sci-Fi make.
 
Poi said:
The ship in the show doesn't have one restriction the game must have.

Balance.

Okay, I know any talk of balance in reference to this game is a bizarre one (Raiders anyone?), but White Stars are so maneuverable that making them arc instead of boresight is overpowered. There needs to be something to keep them in check.
Click to expand...
You make me sick. SICK!

Reduce its dodge, reduce its speed, reduce its range... things that could justifiably still represent the White Star in game terms. Making it fire only in a straight line, does not represent the ship from the show.

Holy crap what a concept? Make a game, where you play ships from an intellectual property? Jeez what a thought! Lets also make them nothing like how we see them on that IP yea? Genius!

The White Star is not broken, it is strong, but throw some fighters at it and its toast, that is the Paper to my Rock, and my Rock to your Scissors. Don't cry nerf rock, because I sure as hell can't cry nerf paper.
 
Hindsight...

Calm my friend...

I'd love to throw some fighters at it, but you've taken a Narn or other ally with mines so where's you r-p-s now? That is part of why folks have an issue with the ISA and the supposed weaknesses of the Whitestar. R-p-s balance scenarios only work if you can't fix your holes. The game is riddled with these.

I agree it should fight just like the show, a bunch of ships don't right now, and it irks all of us. The issue is a lot of us have given up fighting for our ships and get cranky when someone else pulls up show evidence for why there ship gets something we feel ours should also get with similar evidence.

Here's an example... Hyperion... it get pulse dice to both sides... at the same time... using what are clearly the same turrets... it should clearly get a set of pulse in turret but it doesn't... it should also clearly have a pair of lasers on the side mounted turrets that go backward or forward (and some degree off it) but not both... maybe half power forward and back...

Just saying there are lots of things that are clearly wrong if you look at it... but we're not getting all those changes now.

I like the short ranged Whitestar, as I feel it does better show how it fought in the show. I don't feel it fixes some of the issues... note Ranwar's post about easily winning even with bad dice... but the current proposed fix only deals with the over gunned issue, not the play style issue.

It's not whitestar hate... we all want them to be like the show, but we want them to pay the right cost for their effectiveness too. The first fight that sheridan launches... proxima?... Omegas shoot one or two down, right now that should almost never happen according to the stats in a fight between just WS and Omegas.


Ripple
 
I'm a big proponent of Canon ships. More so than just a White Star fanboy.

Anyone that says otherwise, must not read my posts. I don't see a lot of problems in the Centauri, but the G'Quan is something I wanted the moment I saw it, and I was immediately told "sure, but its crap!"

I look forward to finishing P&P so we can move on to the planning phase of ACTA v. 3. I'd like to see this become the edition where the game goes to represent what we saw in the show, and there is more care given to large ships in battles.

I want to play the show, sure, these made up ships are nice, but they need to be a compliment to the canonical ships, not a replacement for them.

The big argument that the White Star should be Bore Sight, is because it fires on bore in the show, and I showed evidence that it can fire in a radius, and that eliminates the "it was boresight in the show" argument, and I'm met with "well its broken anyway, so the show doesn't matter" reply. That makes me sick, tell me to calm down all you want, but its comments like that that keep us from getting anywhere.

Also, if I take a Dag'Kar... go kill it. OMG! I laugh when people focus on the White Stars, while the Dag'Kar is ignored. Use APTE and go get in its face, keep your fighters spread out, or put them on a White Star. I'm not about to E-Mine my own ships until things get very very desperate.

Don't hold what a few Min/Maxers do, against the whole of the ISA community. As has been said before, when people go for pure victory, just don't play them. This game is too loose to let one person keep you down.

As has been said, I play Knife Fighter White Stars, up close and personal, so I never win, as I don't snipe. To me, this is more of a Role Playing game than a war game, and its my job to use my fleet the way the fleet would be used in the show... whether that is tactically sound from this system or not.

I'm happy to lose if I had fun.
 
Fighter hordes are the deliciousness that when applied to the ISA makes them into sweet sweet burning death. With cherry icing. And maybe sprinkles.
 
Hindsight said:
The big argument that the White Star should be Bore Sight, is because it fires on bore in the show, and I showed evidence that it can fire in a radius, and that eliminates the "it was boresight in the show" argument, and I'm met with "well its broken anyway, so the show doesn't matter" reply. That makes me sick, tell me to calm down all you want, but its comments like that that keep us from getting anywhere.
Click to expand...

I think you completely missed the point here. Exactly the same evidence can be found on screen for both the Omega and the G'Quan, and has been completely ignored by the powers that be. So, you shouldn't really be too surprised when the same "logic" is applied to the WhiteStar. I'm surprised that no one has said that it's probably a CGI error! ;)

Of course, the difference is that the WS isn't boresight in the game and the Omegas and G'Quans are, and that doesn't seem likely to change for any of them. However, that doesn't mean that this argument isn't going to come up again, and again, and again......


Regards,

Dave
 
Fox covered it... you missed the point about the logic needing to be consistent between ships for bore or not.

Ripple
 
Coulda swore I could read english? Guess not.

My point is, one ship being a bad choice for Bore Sight, is not a reason to put it on another ship. Whether something is stupid, or consistently stupid, its still stupid.
 
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