The Black eagle

Yep.... makes me wonder why Mr. Evil's so hot to trot for that?

Sure, the US had nuclear bazookas, but that was part of the front line... and from what a former soldier told me (he was part of a Scout element on the border between East and West Germany), a Russian officer walked up to the border and informed his (my buddy) unit that they had papers on all of them and that they would be shot if captured. Pleasent fellows, those Russians...
 
belive what you will but if you do work for military sources and you did sugest otherwise you would be out of a job ;)

ps my exsperiance with the sbs would strongly suport my statment but this sorta information is not allowed.

disalusioned is anbody beleiving anything the american military tell them.

ps the uk version of the apachie was cheaper to produce faster to produce and better produced, and the first few flights in the proto type were a wizz ;)

all i can do is hint, and hope you understand what im saying, dont think russian technology is behind, to do so you would just be eating the food of propaganda.

you wont find a true peice of russian technological hardware now within 1000 miles of the border, and last year the russian goverment spent very little on hardware yet a donation of equipment was made by russian billionaires to the goverment. ;) there are many ways of feeding a war machine, if the goverment had spent the money then it would have been half as much as what they spent durring the cold war admitidly but thats still more then the rest of europe !!!

im not pro russia or anything like that, i just wish people ignored the outside propaganda and news stories and looked at the stuff thats quietly going on.

the assaination was uncovered months ago but now its happened its in the news,,, why,, cuz people were looking at the wrong news stories ;) go back a few months and there were clues in some other small column stories in the broadsheets...

goverments keep us in boxes, its good to peep outside and see the other side of the propaganda box now and then.
 
*sighs quietly* Mr. Evil....


First off, what, pray tell, does SBS stand for? You mean to tell me you're part of the Royal Navy's Special Boat Service, right?

Also, a> The UK version of the Apache didn't have to be produced from the ground up, so of course it'll be cheaper and quicker to make. It's like how the US castrated the UK Steel industry...we took the innovations from them and went to town.

b> I am looking at the stuff that's "quietly" being developed in Russia. They got diddly for money, and they're looking to upgrade their T-80 tanks (which make up the majority of their tank forces) to the Black Eagle quality. They've had to restructure and trim their entire military since they're no longer capable of just dumping massive amounts of money into the military like they used to. They can't afford to be as secretive as you think they are, Evil. Especially since they're participating in the SMP Initiative NATO started.

And what assassination are you talking about? The death of the spy?


2006.gif



And you might get new equipment further down the road...
2007. Russia to boost funding of state defense order

The financing of Russia's state defense order will exceed RUR300bn (approx. USD11.22bn) in 2007, a 29-percent increase on the current year, Russian Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov told a military industry commission meeting on Thursday.
“State funding of the state defense order increases stably each year, and the rate of growth is considerable. In 2007, it will be up by 29 percent, or more than RUR300bn (approx. USD11.22bn) in absolute figures, compared to 2006,” the minister stressed.

"By defining the main parameters of the 2007 state defense order, we are in fact commencing the implementation of the new state armament program until 2015," Ivanov noted.

The Defense Minister also said that more than half of the financing allocated for the defense order would go towards facilitating and implementing this program. Because of this, the military industry commission will take additional measures to control efficient spending of resources and ensure an adequate advance in the technological intensity of the armed forces.

“In the conditions of stable budget funding, the task of planning the development of the armament system becomes the priority, along with the management of the entire process of forming, placing and ultimately executing the state defense order,” Ivanov concluded.

It is worth mentioning that Russia is spending more on defense each year, although it still lags behind in this respect from the leaders: the US, Great Britain, France, Germany, and China.

In 2007, the state defense order will grow by 20% to reach 302.7 billion rubles (over $10 billion). Out of this sum, 145 billion rubles (about $5 billion) will be spent on the purchase of new arms and military hardware. This is a 22% increase over this year. Expenses on repairs will be 60 billion rubles ($2.2 billion). They have gone up by 15.7%. R&D will receive[m1] 98 billion rubles ($3.5 billion) - a 20% growth. In addition, 14.6 billion rubles ($500 million) will be spent on re-equipping the internal troops and Interior Ministry bodies.

These figures show that in 2007 the purchases of arms and hardware should surpass arms exports, as in 2006. In other words, the army and navy will start receiving reliable weapons, which can cope with armed conflicts of the 21st century. This fact alone instills with optimism those who serve and those who work for the Russian armed forces
 
russia has always ben in defence and was built for defence and not attack
ok, i don't know wheter to laught or cry.
1920 war-russia was the agressor.IIWW-russia was the agressor, together with their beloved ally, Reich(till the lovers quarell). Winter war-agressors. hell, the communistic idea of world revolution by deafult meant that the Soviets MUST be on the offensive. the recently released Warsaw pact war-plans also showed the plans of offenisve for the IIIWW(well, also showed that most of Poland would be left as a nuclear wasteland, since it was a "frontline", but i guess loss of people never was a problem to the Bolsheviks and their ilk :roll: )
defense, well and truly.

rant over.
 
Here is an example of why people who play a lot of games (like myself, by the way...) need to socialize a lot. Otherwise we get wierd.

:lol: Too true.

I had a gamer tell me at a recent convention that the WTC towers were lined with C4 when they were built so they could be remoted detonated by the US government. I then told him I owned the Sydney Harbour Bridge and for a mere $100 I would sell it to him, but he didn't think I was as funny. God bless paranoid delusional gamers.
 
SBS is special boat service.

most now work abroad as advisors or missadvisors ;)

polland have many good reasons to be anti soviet so i can see whaty they feel russia was an agressor.

it was ,more to do with leaders than anything else,

as for assination, he wasnt technicaly a spy. although he was from a self made position. (non authorised)

just annoys me that false anti soviet propaganda is still inherent in many people veiws of the old russia.

britain and russia were great allies in WW2 and exchanged delagates very often, america asked for this to stop as part of helping out in the war effort, wich was odd as america was trying to form a deal with russia at the same time.

there is alot about russian technology we dont know about, just like we know little about what is at Area 51, russia has its own versions, they make more proto type tanks than anyone and when they decide on a modle it suddenly appears out of nowhere in numbers.. there not enclined to show of what they got, they like to keep a hand behind the back ;) the proto types we tend to see are failures !!!


i think it would be nice to give the russians a little bit of credit for there technology and inginuity. you can go around web sites allday quoting what you like, but it doesnt make it real if it was put there as part of missinformation.

ive owned a few sites in the past, that have been shut over night, for information they contain, and a friend has evan been fined !!

if your realy that involved with russian tanks im supprised your not singing praise for how their armour works, and how it messes with optical units ? wich is what russian optics was tested against !!!

i would like to see some posativity and imagination in what could be of the russian forces in 15 years time, all we have is proto types to go by, id like to see the the russian submersable tanks, but so far i havnt be able to find a picture of them !!!!

i know your quite anti russian hiro but thats no reason to put the nation down as backwards and stone age, when they were in many ways along with britain leaders in technological development in warfare.
 
No....listening to some of the crap you're spouting? Seesh man....What was Churchhill's relationship with Stalin then?
 
Yawn same old same old, I dont actually think anyone from America is capable of thinking anything about the Russians other than "Oh they're evil, they eat babies" 50 years of propaganda will do that to a population...

Russians certainly do take their technology in a different direction to the west (look at the next gen fighters, ionised wings or something like that), and theres a hell of alot of areas Russia leads the world simply because no one else has considered it, for example the use of phages rather than antibiotics.
In addition, a state driven millitary industrial complex does seem superior in some ways, simple because you can't force the state over a barrel, for example the US had to award the contract fortheir net gen fighter to maintain jobs/keep the companie in business rather than any merit.

End of the day though, neither of you work for the government, your just army fan boys (no offense meant) and I'd seriously question the veracity of either of your statements, no need to get nasty just because the army jazzmag he reads differs to the one you read... :D

(Oh for your information Hiro the UK had a very good relationship with Russia durring WW2, we gave them a prototype jet engine as a gift for christs sake!)
 
as i said this is funny, to whatch two guys whov had a nice gaming relationship (ok i dont know what you guys call it, but essentially its a gaming relationship) argue, then again im a cold hearted bastard.

now im not going to say either one is correct, but to be honest does it matter? no! it doesnt, everyone just needs to chill the f*** out relax, we are all friends here. now kiss and make up.

*hits Mr Evil and Hiro with a rolled up Los Angles Times*

:lol:
 
Actually Max, I do technically work for the US Government..... I'm one of those Beltway Bandits.

And your example is flawed... the F-35 contract WAS awarded based on Merits. The Boeing X-32A wasn't selected because A> Boeing was having issues with meeting thier other contractual obligations and B> It's a pretty ugly plane (seriously, one of the criteria for plane design is looks). Also, I got to see the competition footage for both planes. The F-35 worked out quite nicely, especially when compared to the X-32A.


And is 1946 a good year for World War 2, because, if I'm not mistaken, it ended in 1945...

In 1946, Soviet jet engine designers approached Stalin with a request to purchase jet designs from Western sources in order to overcome design difficulties. Stalin is said to have replied: "What fool will sell us his secrets?" However, he gave his assent to the proposal, and Soviet scientists and designers traveled to the United Kingdom to meet with Cripps and request the engines. To Stalin's amazement, Cripps and the Labour government were perfectly willing to provide technical information on the Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal-flow jet engine designed by RAF officer Frank Whittle, along with discussions of a license to manufacture, even forty crated Nene engines themselves. The Nene engine was promptly reverse-engineered and produced in modified form as the Soviet Klimov VK-1 jet engine, later incorporated into the MiG-15 which flew in time to deploy in combat against UN forces in North Korea in 1950, causing the loss of several B-29 bombers and cancellation of their daylight bombing missions over North Korea.
- Gordon, Yefim, Mikoyan-Gurevich MIG-15: The Soviet Union's Long-Lived Korean War Fighter Midland Press (2001)


And are you talking about this aircraft?
lg_0101STMIAC.jpg


Controlled chaos....and awfully similar to the Grumman X-29
 
:lol: This is like watching the designated driver after a big night out arguing with the drunks in the backseat. Some guys just can't be told that naked car roof surfing is not a good plan.
 
:lol: :D Car surfing is never agood idea, bus surfing on the other hand...

I think I'll have to start getting all my military info from my mates who work at the CSA from now on in :D

No idea what the plane was, listened to an interesting interview about some of the principles behind it, and it sounds a lot more plausable tan that gack paint used on stealth bombers that washes of in the rain...
Isn't controled chaos something completly different though? Something to do with utilising an un-aerodynamic plane controled by computer to improve performance...
Ionisation involves reversing the polarity of the ions in the air surrounding the plane which brings a whole host of benefits. So basically completly different to the Grumman X-29 (Kinda underlines the point I was making neh?) Not to dissimilar in terms of concept to the force fields in the forever war though.

The jet engine being given in 1946 detracts in no way from what I was saying, its an example of the relationship we had with Russia in that period, (If you'd had said that giving the Russians the jet engine was a shrewed check against America on Britains part rather than any notions of friendship you might have had a point).
 
True true... but see? I'm willing to post stuff that covers things that even negates my arguements. I do stand by Chruchhill being suspicious of Stalin's intentions.

The ionization thing though...umm..

PLASMA FLAPS AND SLATS: AN APPLICATION OF WEAKLY-IONIZED PLASMA ACTUATORS
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMFCC04_977/PV2004_2127.pdf
 
I think the difficulty in finding stuff on it is an example of the secrecy of russian technology, its like the Black Shark helicopter, the west didn't know a damn thing about it till it was taken to an airshow and displayed.

Ionisations fairly advanced stuff and how advanced the russians are in the field is a secret in the same way that no one actually knows how advanced chinese science are, that is to say their advances aren't published in english so the west doesnt take any note at all, and the nature of the documents doesnt lend themselves to translation from the mother tongue.

I'll have to read that thing you posted (Busy painting backpacks for my Imperial regulars and watching the battletech cartoon right now), the abstract does seem to imply its about it though, improved handling was part of it, but the scientist was also saying how the process lends stealth properties and had some other nifty uses.
Don't hold me on it but I was given the impression that the Russian next gen would be using it.
Good work there Hiro, I was having trouble finding an example of it :D
 
The next gen Russian aircraft is the Su-47(S-37) for a regular fighter... there's a rumored light fighter... but they're relying more on agility in comparison to the F-22's (which is it's direct compeditor) stealth abilities. Unfortunately, it costs serious money to get these aircraft into the air, so in 15 years we'll probably see what's in the current arsenal right now. I refer you to the Apache Longbow and the Super Cobra...there's no real plans to replace these helicopters at this time.

It's my understanding that the Black Shark project's funding got cut from the 2005 budget. Let me see if I can find the 2006 budget.

12 were purchased in 2005 on the Special Operations budget though.... Bringing the total in inventory to 16 KA-50 Hocum/ Werewolf helicopters...

And it doesn't seem to be going anywhere really quickly... (and this is coming from the Russian source).
 
I wonder how much air power Russia really has... What we see in America are beautiful designs, produced in rediculusly low numbers due to lack of budget... but I wonder if they really have that few.

I love the Su-27 and upgrades, the Su-37s are just beautiful. (Not to be confused with the S-37, the Su-37 is the newest official upgrade to the Su-27). Around here we do the F-22 versus Su-37 debate all the time... and its a toss up. In visual range the Su-37 wins hands down though. The maneuverablity of that aircraft is beyond anything I've ever seen. It has some nifty things, like a helmet mounted missile sight, to assist it in dogfights, but it lacks much in the way of stealth, and in modern air combat that can be very costly. If Russia wants to start an air war, they ought to do it before the F-22 can be used in full force, they'll dominate against F-16s and F-18s... maybe a little more trouble against F-15s.
 
Darkghost said:
If Russia wants to start an air war, they ought to do it before the F-22 can be used in full force, they'll dominate against F-16s and F-18s... maybe a little more trouble against F-15s.

I'd put the odds of this at somewhere very near zero, bar any insane political upheaval in Russia (like a James Bond-style coup d'état by a disgruntled, triggerhappy former general). The cold war is over, guys - it has been for over fifteen years. There is simply nothing to gain by open military aggression, either way, between Russia and the West. There *may* be some "small wars" style encounters in the former sattelite states, but these will be fought by proxy and not allowed to escalate.

In fact, any actual combat between latest generation fighters (or tanks, or other military equipment for that matter) is very unlikely, as the countries that can afford these things are either too preoccupied or too smart to go to war with each other. The main benefit of continuing to develop fancy hardware, like the F-22 or that lovely Black Eagle tank, is to increase the "overkill" in technological advantage over today's enemies, thereby saving lives (on both sides).
 
That heavilly depends on if the US gets an AWACS in the region. Most modern US fighter craft show better performance with a command and control plane in the area than when they're by themselves, mostly because the AWACS' radar has better range, letting the US Jets to get a target lock at ranges that most Russian aircraft can't.

Also, there's the question of training. If you have experienced pilots behind aircraft that know absolutely what they're doing and what their aircraft are capable of, you could be a green pilot in the top of the line fighter and end up a fireball.

Current Russian inventory of Aircraft:
Type Total
A-40 MERMAID / ALBATROS 1+
A-50 MAINSTAY EW 19
AN-12 CUB 126
AN-124 CONDOR 11
AN-2 COLT 30
AN-22 COCK STRATEGIC FREIGHTER 21
AN-24 COKE/AN-26 CURL 125
AN-32 CLINE 50
AN-70 MEDIUM-RANGE MILITARY TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT 1+
AN-72 COALER 20
BE-12 CHAIKA (MAIL) ASW 4
IL-102 1+
IL-20 COOT-A 18
IL-38 MAY 26
IL-76/78 MIDAS 231
KA-27/29/32 HELIX* NAVAL HELICOPTER 88
KA-50 HOCUM/ WEREWOLF 16
KA-52 ALLIGATOR 9
KA-60 KASATKA (KILLER WALE) 7
MI-14 HAZE 9
MI-24/35 HIND 260
MI-26 HALO 25
MI-28 HAVOC 28
MI-6 HOOK 5
MI-8 HIP 195
MIG-25 FOXBAT INTERCEPTOR/ RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT 5
MIG-29/E FULCRUM COUNTER-AIR FIGHTER 430
MIG-31 FOXHOUND INTERCEPTOR 306
MIG-39/1.42 MFI (PLASMA STEALTH) 1+
S32/37 GOLDEN EAGLE 1+
SU-17 FITTER-C 12
SU-24 FENCER BATTLEFIELD BOMBER/R/EW 489
SU-25 FROGFOOT CLOSE SUPPORT/GROUND ATTACK 265
SU-27 FLANKER AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER 449
SU-30 TWO-SEAT MULTIROLE FIGHTER 9
SU-34/32FN LONG RANGE FIGHTER-BOMBER 8
SU-35 ALL-WEATHER COUNTER-AIR FIGHTER 11
SU-37 MULTIROLE FIGHTER 1+
SU-39 CLOSE SUPPORT/GROUND ATTACK 10
TU-142 BEAR-F ASW 26
TU-160 BLACKJACK STRATEGIC BOMBER 19
TU-22M BACKFIRE 162
TU-95/MS BEAR STRATEGIC BOMBER 64
YAK-130 COMBAT TRAINER 3
YAK-141 FREESTYLE V/STOL MULTIROLE FIGHTER 1+


And here's a bit on the Black Eagle (which, in all honesty, is an upgraded T-80).
According to the Sauron's Creations information, this tank is being developed in cooperation with and for export to S.Korea and may even feature Korean thermal imagers. It will not be fielded with the Russian Army and seems to be entirely an initiative of Omsk Plant. It originates from the now-closed Nikolai Popov's design bureau at Leningrad Kirov Plant (LKZ) and is now developed by Alexander Morozov. The tank is built on a T-80U chassis and will borrow most of its components including FCS from T-80U. The most significant difference between the new tank and T-80 is the completely redesigned turret (at Omsk'97 a full-sized mock-up was presented). This new turret will have a larger degree of protection than the current Russian MBTs. The steep slope of forward armor plates on the turret reflects designers' desire to maximize protection from APFSDS rounds in a duel situation, when tanks fight "face to face". For additional protection, the tank is fitted with Kaktus ERA and the new Drozd-2 APS.

It was originally planned to install a 152 mm gun that is being developed for a future Russian MBT. However, since this tank is not going to be fielded with the Russian Army, it will carry a 125 mm 2A46-series gun. Another innovation is a new automated ammo storage/loader, located in a turret bustle. It is separated from crew compartment by an armored bulkhead which greatly increases crew survivability. This design has several reasons. First, the Chechen war has shown that the carousel used in T-72/T-80/T-90 is too prone to ammo detonation when penetrated, invariably killing the crew. Second, adopted configuration also reduces Black Eagle's height by 400 mm by comparison with the T-80 (Perhaps a typo here, since this means that the tank is a mere 1.8 meters in height). Finally, horizontal ammunition arrangement in the turret bustle permits using longer (and therefore, more powerful) APFSDS rounds, simplified automatic loading process and increased rate of fire (expected to reach 10-12 rds/min). It may be worth noting that the latest 3BM42M round for a 2A46M 125mm gun of T-80 and T-90 MBTs has reached the maximum length allowed by current autoloaders. Black Eagle's on-board information system monitors all essential systems of the vehicle, and permits automated data exchange with other tanks and headquarters. The tank shall have a new 1200 hp 16-cyl. turbo-diesel engine and shall weigh around 50 tons. VTTV-Omsk-99 exhibition have finally revealed the complete vehicle (referred by KBMZ as Item 640) without any netting.

Several features became immediately apparent. First it appears that the vehicle's hull is not taken directly from T-80U as was originally believed, but was significantly redesigned, the obvious change being the 7th roadwheel. It seems that most of the additional length has gone into the raised front hull protection and greater glacis obliquity. It also raises doubts if the tank indeed stays in Class 50. The active protection system appears to be Drozd, not Arena, derivative. Although the tank indeed carries the 2A46M maingun, it was stated that provision is made for installation of a new 152mm maingun. This implies that Omsk still hopes to win the hearts of the Russian military with their new tank.
 
To go back to a much earlier post by Mr. Evil, I used to have an old copy of a "Strategy and Tactics" magazine, that had a detailed article on the joint US/British plans to invade Russia at the end of WW2. Can't remember what the operation name was and I haven't been able to find anything on it since, but the plans existed and came very close to being used.

If I find anything else out, I'll post it, as it would have been a very interesting campaign idea
 
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