Term Explanations

[Valen is my name]

Could anyone help me with the two terms below, i know that there was a thread to do with AJP but i couldn't find it and when i did it got me even more confused!

1. AJP bombing - how does it work/where is it explained easily?

2. Intiative sinks - this term gets used quite a bit but i can't work out what everyone means by it.

Thanks. (Wheres LBH when you need him? :lol: )

 

[H]

JP/AJP bombing is the act of opening your jump points on enemy ships, in some cases removing them from the game.
All you do is open the jump point of any ship in hyperspace so it's wash hits a ship. easier tp do with AJP ships due to less scatter

initiative sinking, is being able to use your lower priority ships, or less valuable ships (in terms of impact) early on to allow your larger ships (possibly with boresights) to move later gaining juicier targets. Fleets such as the narn and EA need initiative sinks to outmaneuvre an enemy or they may get no boresights lined up.

 

[captainsmirk]

Perfect example of a JP Bomb (not in the game admittedly, and the only time it appeared in the source material) is what the Black Star does to the Lexington's fleet in In the Beginning.


Nick

 

[CheesyRobMan]

AJP stands for Advanced Jump Point. This is a trait that some ships have that allows them to open jump points with little or no scattering, meaning that they can place a jump point exactly where they want it. Since ships near an opening jump point will be damaged, some people deliberately open jump points in the middle of an enemy fleet to try and cause damage. The really sneaky players just open the jump point and never bring the ship that opened it through, which effectively lets them cause damage without ever taking any.

Initiative sinking is best explained by an example. Let's say you have a pair of Omega destroyers facing off against a fleet made up entirely of smaller, lower-priority ships. Even if the Omegas win initiative for the turn, they will be at a severe disadvantage because of the way the movement system works. Even if they move second, their opponent will have ships left over after both the Omegas have moved, effectively giving him/her 'free' movement without having to worry about where the Omegas might go. For this reason, smaller ships in a fleet might be called "initiative sinks" if they're only there to allow 'free' movement to the bigger ships later in the turn. Even if a ship is stopped (voluntarily or otherwise), you can nominate it and 'activate' it to take its turn in the movement phase, and this can also be used as a way of initiative sinking.

Hope this helps.

 

[Valen is my name]

yeah thanks for all that. how do you work out the damage for jump point bombing?

 

[Burger]

Its in the book... 6AD, TD to all ships within 4" in the F arc of the JP.

 

[H]

so against a Bin tak, you would probably mildly scratch it, but against a squadron of hermes, you would wipe them out.
but if you then have say, patrol level AJP ships, and you kept 1 FAP from your 5 point war fleet in hyperspace, you could open multiple jump points on a larger ship, doing more damage and getting increased chances of crits, and suddenly it becomes a bit of a problem! as it cannot return fire if they sit in hyperspace!

 

[Valen is my name]

can fighters still dodge or don't they have time/can't get away quick enough?

 

[Burger]

Even worse, if that patrol ship could open another JP the very next turn!!!

Yes you can dodge JP bombs.

 

[H]

which doesn't make sense! it's a huge rift between dimenions, spewing out tons of energy, how the heck could you dodge it! oh wait, to give the ISA immunity from it! how silly of me not to realise.

 

[Valen is my name]

i don't see how you could dodge it, just try to out run it perhaps.

this may sound silly but after the yes to dodging i just want to check, stealth has no effect on the outcome does it?

 

[H]

nope.

 

[Valen is my name]

glad to hear it. i didn't think it would, but as i said after hearing you can somehow dodge a huge blast of energy i wasn't so sure

 

[Burger]

Yeah dodging it is silly, but thats the way it goes. Before anyone asks, no you can't use interceptors against it either!

 

[Valen is my name]

bummer that was going to be my next question

i take it adaptive armour will still do its stuff, but what about GEG?

 

[H]

yup geg works against it (and with flimsy hulls for most drakh it needs too)

 

[CZuschlag]

Considering that 6-7 AJP bombs, on average, will kill a Drakh Carrier (a Battle-level ship), and its cargo in one turn --- something, that, as it stands, 6 PATROL-LEVEL Blue Stars can do in one turn without risk?

Total Cheese.

I even remembered to factor in the GEG 3 against each check separately.

Gruyere. Stilton. Camembert. Gouda. Wensleydale. Fontina.

As I have mentioned elsewhere....
BAN.
IT.
For the health of your local ACtA gaming club, if nothing else.

 

[Ripple]

Yep, blue star AJP is just a wee bit problematic.

couple of comments on the topic above

Folks can use the bombs from hyper ships to destroy the small scouts that generally move away from a battle and still come in through another jump point opened elsewhere. This is one of the big reasons the weapons is problematic, you not only can attack without risk, you can attack ANYWHERE without risk, and still take up an optimal position for entry onto the board.

Initiative sinks - these are useful for bore sighted fleets (heck essential) as you otherwise cannot shoot at all, BUT they are just as useful for not bore sighted fleets for denying shot to the enemy (moving out of arc of already moved ships) and creating opportunity to use SAs (CAF on a move ship, etc).

Initiative sinking - also used a lot here, is just saying that you activate a ship whose move will not be materially affected by an enemies move. A ship which has been All Stopped is usually activated early since it can't move and so give nothing up by activating early. A scout behind an asteroid field when nothing else can reach it. That near dead ship crawling for the side of the board. You get the picture.

Point is to be aware that there are ships that are sometimes bought as 'initiative sinks' (otherwise weak ship you bought to enhance the use of a strong ship, Sunhawk say), ships that become 'initiative sinks' (damn no fire, no damage control crits) and ships that can be used as 'initiative sinks' that still do great service (Vaarl - great little ship that only need to be within 24 inches with Stealth 5!, Hermes - inside 30 this end toward enemy).

Ripple

 

[Valen is my name]

for jump point bombing wouldn't it be better if there was a risk of the jump point collapsing or something as it hits the ship, so the jump point opening ship is at risk to, so not all would do it, bit like the skin dancing idea

 

[Spike1382]

for jump point bombing wouldn't it be better if there was a risk of the jump point collapsing or something as it hits the ship, so the jump point opening ship is at risk to, so not all would do it, bit like the skin dancing idea

Love this idea! Seems fair way to fix this problem. Though I would say risk of taking damage rather than flat out destroying the jumping ship. Where's Matt?