Telepathic ability save DCs

A

Anonymous

Guest
Is is me or are the save DCs for a telepath's powers absurdly high? A player of mine is a level 11 P-11 telepath with save DCs of 26! At level 11!
He basically uses Pain to stop anything and eveything that isn't completely immune. And he has pretty good odds of getting 4 or 5 targets. Is there something I'm missing? Has anyone house-ruled this? Thanks.
 

crizh

Mongoose
A P11 is a pretty darn powerful Telepath.

Evidence from the show doesn't reveal many instances of normal people having any hope of resisting a Telepath.

Telepaths are absurdly powerful, which is why the Psi Corps and the Psi Cops exist.

Interestingly the flip side of that is that weak Telepaths are rubbish.

The stats for Talia in the main rulebook give her powers a save DC of 10, not exactly challenging.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I concur and so does JMS. In Eyes under JMS Speaks "Mr. Grey would've been a P10" he also describes the Pain ability "Grey reached into Ben Zayn's head and, for lack of a better term, pushed his "pain button," the same way you can stimulate someone's memory or physical sensations with an electrode or chemicals. It was only a second, and he would've shrugged it off quickly, had Sinclair not been there to follow up. " Remember that Grey had been hit by Ben Zayn before Grey hit him with the Pain ability.

Lyta also used it in Between the Darkness and the Light on one of Sheridan's guards.


http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/016.html
 

frobisher

Mongoose
SWAT said:
Is is me or are the save DCs for a telepath's powers absurdly high? A player of mine is a level 11 P-11 telepath with save DCs of 26! At level 11!
He basically uses Pain to stop anything and eveything that isn't completely immune. And he has pretty good odds of getting 4 or 5 targets. Is there something I'm missing? Has anyone house-ruled this? Thanks.

If your player is a member of Psi Corps, he' got his annual check up to endure. And there will be fall out from that... A the very least, he'll have been reported by all those he's "pained" in the past.

If he's not a member of Psi Corps, he's obviously a dangerous rogue so dump some Psi Cops and Bloodhounds on him - it might encourage him to be more discrete.

If the primary focus of your campaign isn't telepathy and the telepath agenda, you've made a mistake lettiing him take such a powerful telepath...

This is one area I think the prior Babylon Project RPG scored points over this new one - it actively encouraged the players to play as their character was described and the biggest chunk of your experience came from that.

Don't give into the Munchkin side of the Force...
 

Perturbatio

Mongoose
We have just implemented a provisional ruling regarding this:

The DC to save against a teep's powers is equal to 10+(PSI Rating/2 (round up))+Stat bonus.
The option has also been put in place to allow them to modify the DC by 1 per 2 points they increase the DC of their telepathy check by.

We have also decided that it doesn't make sense for Telepathy to be Charisma based and so have switched to using Wisdom for this, I realise this makes Charisma a bit redundant in most cases (although it still comes in handy in my game for purchasing of equipment, etc).
 

Barbara

Mongoose
I have a P8 (level 2 ) telepath. Her save dc is 12. Pretty much anyone can stop her from doing a scan. (Not that she wants to hear what people are thinking anyway. She doesn't like what is said to her.)


Also if your player is using Pain that much. Are there any people who survived? I find snipers a good solution to problems like that. Unless he has danger sense, he won't know that they are there and even then he won't know where they are. They are not necessarily firing killing rounds. They may just knock him out and take him somewhere to introduce him to some pain.

The idea about bloodhounds and psi cops is a good one too. After all, what's he going to do when the person he tries it on turns out to be a bloodhound/psi cop with sleeper drugs on them (and then in him).

Then of course there's the problem of Security. Mr Garibaldi is not fond of Telepaths. If he starts getting reports of one doing this. He might change his mind about helping Psi Corp and report the person. After putting a stop on his Id card at customs, of course. If he has a room rented, security could visit him there for a quiet "chat" ,after having visited Dr Franklin.

There are always ways.

On the original subject. Surface scan says that the subject doesn't feel a thing. How do they know to resist then.
With Communicate and Warning. Can you tell who is sending the message or do you have to listen to find out.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A P10 should be able to get into any average mundane's mind. A telepath may be able to keep them out for a while.

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/000.html
JMS Speaks:
"The amount of contact required varies according to the telepath's strength. Lyta at P5 needs a little help. A P10 could nail you from across the room."

JMS Speaks:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/006.html

"A Psi-rating comes through training and examination of a person's skills over time. Ivanova's mother never went through the full sequence to get rated. (Although they generally don't bother with P1s through P2s, so she was at least a P3 or above, in terms of raw ability.) A psi rating isn't hereditary."

Plot Points
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/101.html
"The Corps is training some of its members in offensive skills known as "mind shredding." A P10-rated shredder is a danger even to a P12-rated telepath, and a P12-rated shredder can kill a mundane telepathically in a matter of seconds."

"Psi Corps field operatives must be able to maintain a mental block against a telepathic probe for at least one hour to ensure that they're safe against attack by untrained rogues. Even the most powerful rogues, according to Bester, can't sustain a psi attack for more than 30 or 40 minutes."

So according to this and the show...the rules need some help. I am more than willing to help :!: :D
 

Perturbatio

Mongoose
On the original subject. Surface scan says that the subject doesn't feel a thing. How do they know to resist then.

It's a natural defence mechanism, similar in a way to your immune system which resists a disease but you do not have to be aware of it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If you consider a Target of the same level having a wilsave of +7 and an average abilitymodifier of +2 the saveing throw would go against a DC of 17....
 

Barbara

Mongoose
Then again, has he got Danger Sense?
Does he sleep?
Does he sleep in the same place?
If attacking him directly is painful, humans will quickly work out guerilla tactics to use on him and as I stated earlier unless he has killed all the people, Security is going to know about him. Lets see him validate using Pain on them, when they take him in for questioning.

This is Not D&D where adventurers go around ignoring the local laws. This a law-abiding society. Hit him with them and all the disads that go with it. Starting with reputation. Lack of service. people reporting to Security. The Blip Hotline. Legal Dept at PsiCorp- lawsuits. Slap one of those on PsiCorp for not controlling him and he'll be caught quicksmart.

If he complains, tell him he knew the laws and if he's a rogue/blip, tell him he knew the problems when he wrote up the character.
There is no excuse for letting him get away with it.

Mine avoids using abilities whenever possible and tries damn hard to hide her signature and that she's a telepath. She is also law abiding ,apart from that.
 

Barbara

Mongoose
Aramanthus said Who many people in your game are playing teeps?

I assume that's how many and who were you talking to? Or is it who and how many?

In the one I'm in, I'm it, along with 2 rangers and a technomage. We were going to have a Blackfist but he couldn't work out the prereqs.
 

scottmage

Mongoose
Anonymous said:
A P10 should be able to get into any average mundane's mind. A telepath may be able to keep them out for a while.

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/000.html
JMS Speaks:
"The amount of contact required varies according to the telepath's strength. Lyta at P5 needs a little help. A P10 could nail you from across the room."

JMS Speaks:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/006.html

"A Psi-rating comes through training and examination of a person's skills over time. Ivanova's mother never went through the full sequence to get rated. (Although they generally don't bother with P1s through P2s, so she was at least a P3 or above, in terms of raw ability.) A psi rating isn't hereditary."

Plot Points
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/101.html
"The Corps is training some of its members in offensive skills known as "mind shredding." A P10-rated shredder is a danger even to a P12-rated telepath, and a P12-rated shredder can kill a mundane telepathically in a matter of seconds."

"Psi Corps field operatives must be able to maintain a mental block against a telepathic probe for at least one hour to ensure that they're safe against attack by untrained rogues. Even the most powerful rogues, according to Bester, can't sustain a psi attack for more than 30 or 40 minutes."

So according to this and the show...the rules need some help. I am more than willing to help :!: :D

Who is this...you sound like me quoting JMS and all? You are correct in there needs to a new version of the PSI rules. I am willing to help as well.
 
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