TAS and the OGL Traveller Logo License

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

How do these two things work now?

If I publish under the OGL, can I still use the Traveller Logo License and call it "compatible with Traveller" and reference the OGL/1st Edition stuff?

Under the TAS, do I need to put any other copyright info other than the phrase mentioned by Matt? What about Far Futures Enterprises - do I have to reference them? Also, since I wrote it but won't retain the IP, then it is not my copyright, so do I say ANYTHING about any rights that I wrote it? Do I have any rights as the author?

In the infinitely small chance that I publish something and Mongoose decides to incorporate some of what I wrote into one of their products, do I get writing credit - even if I don't get any money? Say I write a rule that Matt and gang LOVE and they add it to a book, what (if anything) do I get?

What do I do if I buy a TAS product and use something published in it (say a creature or a career) - How do I properly reference that work given that the writer doesn't own the IP? Do I list both the author and Mongoose somehow? If so - HOW?

Thanks!

 

[dmccoy1693]

If I publish under the OGL, can I still use the Traveller Logo License and call it "compatible with Traveller" and reference the OGL/1st Edition stuff?

You can still use the OGL to publish material. That never expires. However, the TLL is expiring. Matt told us publishers that we have 30 days after the TAS launched to remove the TLL from our books.

Under the TAS, do I need to put any other copyright info other than the phrase mentioned by Matt? What about Far Futures Enterprises - do I have to reference them?

According to this page, you must place this statement in each book:

This product was created under license. Traveller and its logo are trademarks of Far Future Enterprises. This work contains material that is copyright Mongoose Publishing and/or other authors. Such material is used with permission under the Community Content Agreement for The Travellers’ Aid Society.

Also, since I wrote it but won't retain the IP, then it is not my copyright, so do I say ANYTHING about any rights that I wrote it? Do I have any rights as the author?

Here's the thing that I think is getting lost in all this: If you publish something under the TAS License, you retain all rights you otherwise would with the following exceptions:

• If you do not own the setting you are working on (such as the case with the OTU), you cannot publish for it outside of the TAS.
• If you own the setting (such as Gypsy Knight, if they published their setting under the TAS, which they do not intend to do so at this time), you still own the setting. You can convert it to Savage Worlds, sell non-Traveller versions through non-DriveThruRPG stores, create fiction, license it to a video game publisher, etc. However, the MGT 2e version can only be sold through DriveThruRPG. Also, you are also granting anyone that is publishing under the TAS the ability to also make adventures, additional setting material, etc for your setting (that you do not have to recognize as official) for Traveller.

So if Gypsy published their sector under the TAS, I could make an adventure for it for Traveller. But if they converted their setting to Savage Worlds as well, I would have to get a license directly from Gypsy if I wanted to also converted my adventure to Savage Worlds.

There more to it then that, and for more intricate details, you should talk to a laywer, but that is going to be how it plays out 95% of the time.

In the infinitely small chance that I publish something and Mongoose decides to incorporate some of what I wrote into one of their products, do I get writing credit - even if I don't get any money? Say I write a rule that Matt and gang LOVE and they add it to a book, what (if anything) do I get?

Matt's going to have to answer that one.

What do I do if I buy a TAS product and use something published in it (say a creature or a career) - How do I properly reference that work given that the writer doesn't own the IP? Do I list both the author and Mongoose somehow? If so - HOW?

For the time being, I don't know (Third Base). I have to talk to my lawyer about how to do that precisely. Here is what I am sure of: you are not giving away your IP. You are giving a license to DriveThru to create derivatives of your work and DriveThru is extending that ability to make derivatives to all those that are publishing under the TAS. What I am not seeing in the license, however, is the ability to copy the work wholesale (however, I may have missed it since IANAL). So this is not like the OGL where you can copy all the open content, stick your own cover on it and call it a day.

To put that in monster terms, if I create a book of monsters, you cannot copy and paste my book of monsters into your own book of monsters. However, you can use any of the monsters I create in an adventure you create. Or if I make a monster called a Flying Lizard, you can create your own Flying Lizard that is based on the same idea as mine that is not otherwise plagerizing since it can be claimed as a derivative.

Does that help?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Yes it does, very much.

As I have an adventure ready to publish, that last thing holding it up is understanding the legal language that I have to put in the book.

I will leave my legal/copyright stuff in place and add the TAS info (already done). I think at this point, I will leave the Far Future copyright in as well.

Thanks!

 

[Kearnaun]

Matt told us publishers that we have 30 days after the TAS launched to remove the TLL from our books.

Sorry to interrupt here. Is this kind of inside information, or did I miss something? I know I already bugged Matt (and I don't want to be a nuisance and bug him again already) about it and he told me that there would be an announcemt regarding this, but somehow I still get the feeling I missed a memo here. The only public announcement so far that I read was about the launch of TAS and nothing about an expiration date for the TLL. Right?

One more related question though, since some of you already are adapting their publications. Just how much do I have to change so I don't have to take down my 1e Traveller products for good. Remove the logo on the cover and any claim of Traveller compatibility? Anything else?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Kearnaun, PM Sent.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Just to let you all know...

The Traveller Logo Licence (and the Foreven logo Licence) will be sunsetting - however, we won't do this until we are completely happy with TAS (changes coming, hopefully we can deal with all your concerns!). We would recommend you don't post anything new under the TLL, but there is no mad rush to take everything down (start converting to the new Traveller, though!).

With regards to the OGL - once Open, always Open. If you simply remove all references to Traveller and the Logo on those products, we won't be coming after you However, we will love you loads if you convert them to the new edition of the rules. They really are better

 

[Prime_Evil]

The Traveller Logo Licence (and the Foreven logo Licence) will be sunsetting - however, we won't do this until we are completely happy with TAS (changes coming, hopefully we can deal with all your concerns!). We would recommend you don't post anything new under the TLL, but there is no mad rush to take everything down (start converting to the new Traveller, though!).

Glad to hear that you are listening to the concerns of 3PPs and will try to address them. Everyone wants the new edition of Traveller to be a success

With regards to the OGL - once Open, always Open. If you simply remove all references to Traveller and the Logo on those products, we won't be coming after you However, we will love you loads if you convert them to the new edition of the rules. They really are better

From a philosophical angle I'm sad to see Traveller move away from the OGL and wary about giving DriveThru RPG a stranglehold over the industry. But from a pragmatic perspective, I figure that if you can address some of the practical concerns TAS may be quite successful.

 

[Golan2072]

With regards to the OGL - once Open, always Open. If you simply remove all references to Traveller and the Logo on those products, we won't be coming after you However, we will love you loads if you convert them to the new edition of the rules. They really are better

We would also LOVE to use the current (and, indeed, better) rules. We at Stellagama Publishing will publish several shorter products through TAS relatively soon - one is in final layout stages right now. My main concern is with big setting books - I am writing one now, by the way - which would have to have clear rules about IP ownership; Print on Demand options; and an ability to crowdfund our own products (to pay for art/layout etc.).

 

[dmccoy1693]

and an ability to crowdfund our own products (to pay for art/layout etc.).

I hate to say this, but the rules are very clear on this (at this time): you can't. You cannot sell copies through any avenue other than DriveThruRPG. That includes Kickstarter. If you can crowd fund it in such a way that your backers do not get free copies of the book in return, you're good.

 

[Golan2072]

and an ability to crowdfund our own products (to pay for art/layout etc.).

I hate to say this, but the rules are very clear on this (at this time): you can't. You cannot sell copies through any avenue other than DriveThruRPG. That includes Kickstarter. If you can crowd fund it in such a way that your backers do not get free copies of the book in return, you're good.

Isn't it possible to have the crowdfunding reward be a DTRPG coupon of some sort? Maybe purchased ahead of time?

Also doesn't this problem exist with a "regular" exclusive publishing account through DTRPG, such as I have?

Of course, we can make do without crowdfunding, with more stock art (just pay for the important stuff to be custom-made). In fact, less fuss that way. Spica Publishing did this with Outer Veil - without even using stock art - we can do this with our setting as well.

But crowdfunding will make things better. If the new license will allow this, it would be awesome - it will mean we could get even better art into our books.

 

[Katerine]

How do these two things work now?

If I publish under the OGL, can I still use the Traveller Logo License and call it "compatible with Traveller" and reference the OGL/1st Edition stuff?

Under the TAS, do I need to put any other copyright info other than the phrase mentioned by Matt? What about Far Futures Enterprises - do I have to reference them? Also, since I wrote it but won't retain the IP, then it is not my copyright, so do I say ANYTHING about any rights that I wrote it? Do I have any rights as the author?

In the infinitely small chance that I publish something and Mongoose decides to incorporate some of what I wrote into one of their products, do I get writing credit - even if I don't get any money? Say I write a rule that Matt and gang LOVE and they add it to a book, what (if anything) do I get?

What do I do if I buy a TAS product and use something published in it (say a creature or a career) - How do I properly reference that work given that the writer doesn't own the IP? Do I list both the author and Mongoose somehow? If so - HOW?

Thanks!

Hi,
As for me it means a lot
I have left my legal/copyright stuff in place and add the TAS info I will leave my legal/copyright stuff in place and add the TAS info here 8)

 

[Pyromancer]

Here's the thing that I think is getting lost in all this: If you publish something under the TAS License, you retain all rights you otherwise would with the following exceptions:

• If you do not own the setting you are working on (such as the case with the OTU), you cannot publish for it outside of the TAS.
• If you own the setting (such as Gypsy Knight, if they published their setting under the TAS, which they do not intend to do so at this time), you still own the setting. You can convert it to Savage Worlds, sell non-Traveller versions through non-DriveThruRPG stores, create fiction, license it to a video game publisher, etc. However, the MGT 2e version can only be sold through DriveThruRPG. Also, you are also granting anyone that is publishing under the TAS the ability to also make adventures, additional setting material, etc for your setting (that you do not have to recognize as official) for Traveller.

I don't think that's the case. Under 5) in the licence, you grant OBS the exclusive, irrevocable right, among other things, to publish your work and your user generated content. And "“User Generated Content” shall be defined as the copyrightable elements included in your Work, such as original characters, scenes, locations and events. "
And I think exclusive means: No one else is allowed to do it. So you can't use "characters, scenes, locations and events" you published under TAS, slap on another rule system, and publish it yourself.