Sub Merchant and Sub Liner

Subsidized Merchants are usually subsidized by local governments to work the main so with Jump 1 they are kind of stuck on the Main and have max cargo cap, where as a Subsidized Liner you want to be able to get off the Main and bring tourists to the Main that would not normally be able to get there without a higher Jump and as jump 3 will get to most Mains you go with that as sometime Jump 2 is just not enough.
 
Subsidized liners are used by larger population wealthier worlds than the Merchants. Also why it is 50% bigger and twice the cost. Probably also serves more worlds.

Finally I would say that these are merely sample ships and other sizes and Jump are likely to exist. After all if you are Jump 2 from anywhere a J-1 Subsidized Merchant isn't efficient (but might be all you can afford).
 
The Admiralty subsidized fast liners to deal with what they presumed would be fast commercial raiders, pre Great War, so that hardpoints for six inchers would be included, and that they can requisition them for that particular role, plus commerce protection.

Off hand, I can't recall Traveller canon commerce raiders, so couldn't say whether that would be justified, or, as what actually happened, they work better as fast troop transports.
 
MasterGwydion said:
Just out of curiosity, why is a standard subsidized liner Jump-3, but the standard subsidized merchant only Jump-1?
Click to expand...
Well, the liner has 200 tons on the merchant, so that helps to an extent. Fat boys (aks the sub merchie) are optimized to carry the largest amount of cargo, and the liner's cargo (aka passengers) are much more time sensitive than widgets (same as Boggo points out).

It's also a matter of cost. The average cargo item isn't as time sensitive as a passenger. Merchants and shippers, being the cheap bastards that they are, want to maximize revenue, so unless the cargo is perishable and one cannot mitigate that with some sort of process, you see cargo ships plodding along to move the maximum amount of freight in the cheapest manner possible. Sea-Land built some fast container ships (30kts) for trans-atlantic traffic and Maersk built their B-class container ships (35+kts) for trans-pacific traffic. Both discovered the hard way that not enough shippers were willing to pay the premium for faster transit times. In both cases it was the cost of fuel consumption that made the uneconomical to operate at those speeds.

You can go back and look at sea vessels over the centuries and find similar parallels. It's only been in the last few hundred years that technology has really made bigger separation times possible. Planes aren't any different - the 707 was a faster jet than many of today's jets - but that's because operators have prioritized costs over speed.
 
phavoc said:
Well, the liner has 200 tons on the merchant, so that helps to an extent. Fat boys (aks the sub merchie) are optimized to carry the largest amount of cargo, and the liner's cargo (aka passengers) are much more time sensitive than widgets (same as Boggo points out).

It's also a matter of cost. The average cargo item isn't as time sensitive as a passenger. Merchants and shippers, being the cheap bastards that they are, want to maximize revenue, so unless the cargo is perishable and one cannot mitigate that with some sort of process, you see cargo ships plodding along to move the maximum amount of freight in the cheapest manner possible. Sea-Land built some fast container ships (30kts) for trans-atlantic traffic and Maersk built their B-class container ships (35+kts) for trans-pacific traffic. Both discovered the hard way that not enough shippers were willing to pay the premium for faster transit times. In both cases it was the cost of fuel consumption that made the uneconomical to operate at those speeds.

You can go back and look at sea vessels over the centuries and find similar parallels. It's only been in the last few hundred years that technology has really made bigger separation times possible. Planes aren't any different - the 707 was a faster jet than many of today's jets - but that's because operators have prioritized costs over speed.
Click to expand...
I agree with this in principle, but I am not sure the rules really support that view as it is cheaper to ship things faster in Traveller.

1 ton 2 parsecs at Jump-1 is 2,000Cr 2 weeks
1 ton 2 parsecs at Jump-2 is 1,600Cr 1 week

1 ton 3 parsecs at Jump-1 is 3,000Cr 3 weeks
1 ton 3 parsecs at Jump-3 is 2,600Cr 1 week

1 ton 4 parsecs at Jump-1 is 4,000Cr 4 weeks
1 ton 4 parsecs at Jump-2 is 3,200Cr 2 weeks
1 ton 4 parsecs at Jump-4 is 4,400Cr 1 week

1 ton 5 parsecs at Jump-1 is 5,000Cr 5 weeks
1 ton 5 parsecs at Jump-5 is 8,500Cr 1 week

1 ton 6 parsecs at Jump-1 is 6,000Cr 6 weeks
1 ton 6 parsecs at Jump-2 is 4,800Cr 3 weeks
1 ton 6 parsecs at Jump-3 is 5,200Cr 2 weeks
1 ton 6 parsecs at Jump-6 is 32,000Cr 1 week

Once you add in the extra costs for Maintenance, life support, extra weeks of salaries, amount of extra time that you lose having to stop and refuel every jump, etc. There does seem to be a sweet spot in the J-2 to J-3 range though.

So, I am not sure that rule holds true in Traveller.
 
Traveller factoid - the subsidised merchant at 400t breaks the rules presented in LBB:2, yup Traveller authors were ignoring their own rules all the way back in their first rulebook :)

"Subsidies: The government may subsidize larger commercial vessels (built on type 600 hulls or larger), primarily to assure consistent service to specific worlds."
 
If it were me, I'd identify some sweet spot, whether tonnage, design or whatever, to optimize the results I wanted.

You could ask, why six hundred tonnes?
 
I would have thought the world(s) offering the subsidy would decide for themselves how large a ship and how many they need to promote the trade they are after.
 
MasterGwydion said:
Just out of curiosity, why is a standard subsidized liner Jump-3, but the standard subsidized merchant only Jump-1?
Click to expand...

Subsidised merchants are designed to operate in underserved clusters of worlds off the mains, ideally grouped in such a way that most, if not all, are within one parsec of each other. It isn't part of their lore, but Subbies have such enormous cargo holds that they could conceivably install fuel bladders to cross a two-parsec gap, if necessary.

Subsidised liners are designed to take passengers to popular ports of call, most of which are on worlds with class A and B starports; hence, they are not equipped with fuel purification systems. To be able to serve only class A and B, you need to have the ability to skip the class C-X systems; hence, the longer jump range. Also, travel between important worlds — for example, Regina and Mora — is quite far, and passengers want to be able to make their way between them in a reasonable amount of time.
 
If there was a viable net profit margin, you don't have to subsidize them.

Unless, they would be subject to military requisition.
 
AnotherDilbert said:
Chosen at random when LBB2 was written in the '70s?
Click to expand...
I was going to say because J-3 and M-1 drives and a compatible powerplant fit in a 600 ton standard hull engineering section, but I'm not going to go through my books to check that assumption...

Edit: Okay, couldn't help myself. It fits in a 85 tons drive section with a J jump drive, J power plant and a C M drive, leaves you 2 tons to spare.
 
Last edited:
Geir said:
I was going to say because J-3 and M-1 drives and a compatible powerplant fit in a 600 ton standard hull engineering section, but I'm not going to go through my books to check that assumption...
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I would assume the opposite causation: The standard hull was dimensioned for the Sub Liner, and was redimensioned for it in LBB2'81.

Edit:
Checking, I would be wrong: the LBB2'77 standard 600 t hull leaves 15 t free in Engineering, enough for J-4 or M-2.
 
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert said:
Agreed, but I would assume the opposite causation: The standard hull was dimensioned for the Sub Liner, and was redimensioned for it in LBB2'81.
Click to expand...
Probably, but I have those original LBBs as a physical copy in a box, in a chest, under other boxes, in a closet, blocked by computers and more boxes. So they're safe... but... I'd probably start an avalanche getting to them. Or sprain something. Definitely trip over something. So I'm not going to check those.

We dread the eventual day when we move... my sister-in-law joked we'll need his and hers dumpsters, blue and pink, to clear everything out. Don't buy a five bedroom home when you're only two people and you both like to collect things...
 
Geir said:
Probably, but I have those original LBBs as a physical copy in a box, in a chest, under other boxes, in a closet, blocked by computers and more boxes.
Click to expand...
Books? How very 20th century...


Geir said:
We dread the eventual day when we move... my sister-in-law joked we'll need his and hers dumpsters, blue and pink, to clear everything out.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what you do every time you move?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Most Prolific Ship Class in Charted Space?
Replies
13
Views
273
MasterGwydion
M
F
Fuel Dumps
5 6 7
Replies
126
Views
6K
phavoc
P
middenface
TAS [Moon Toad Publishing] Type R Subsidized Merchant Flat-Top Variant
Replies
19
Views
872
-Daniel-
-Daniel-
mortal
New colony
Replies
18
Views
893
rinku
R
M
Sector and Subsector-wide Merchant Lines
3 4 5
Replies
91
Views
2K
Terry Mixon
Terry Mixon
Back
Top