stupid glorantha questions thread

[weasel_fierce]

so, Im reading as much as I can on Glorantha these days, and having loads of questions about it (when we got into RQ3 back in the day, it was mostly as a generic fantasy game).
So I figure this thread can serve as me (and others are certainly welcome to join in with stuff they are curious about) asking things. Please keep it to setting stuff, not game rules.

So.. in no particular order:

Is Zorak Zoran a troll god strictly, or is he worshipped by some humans as well ?

Did Arkat become a troll, or just similar to the trolls ?

Is there such a thing as atheists in Glorantha ?

What exactly is the crimson bat and how does it connect to the lunars in the third age ?

Just how common is "iron" ?

The Mostali descriptions sound like they have very few non-aggressive dealings with others, same for the aldryami really. Im sure there must be more to it than just fighting. Examples and details ? (and where are good places to find more info on these two races ?)



More later!

 

[richaje]

OK, here's a few short answers. For longer answers, I recommend that you get your hands on as much Gloranthan background as you possibly can!

Is Zorak Zoran a troll god strictly, or is he worshipped by some humans as well ?

Zorak Zoran is worshiped by some humans - although mostly by trolls. At this time, the cult of Zorak Zoran is particularly powerful in Dagori Inkarth - and his cult leaders are said by some to be more powerful than the Uzuz queens in Dagori Inkarth.

Did Arkat become a troll, or just similar to the trolls ?

Arkat became a mistress race troll sometime between 446 and 449 in order to gain the powers necessary to enter Dorastor and defeat Nysalor.

Is there such a thing as atheists in Glorantha ?

Yep. The Brithini are atheists. They recognize the existence of the gods (although they deny them any particular importance) but they worship neither gods, spirits, nor even the Invisible God. Mostali (dwarfs) are also atheists and worship nothing.

What exactly is the crimson bat and how does it connect to the lunars in the third age ?

The Crimson Bat is a horrible chaos demon the Red Goddess mastered as her steed. It exists to travel about and reminds everyone of the Goddess' great power.

Just how common is "iron" ?

Very rare. Except for the Mostali who have it in droves.

The Mostali descriptions sound like they have very few non-aggressive dealings with others, same for the aldryami really. Im sure there must be more to it than just fighting. Examples and details ? (and where are good places to find more info on these two races ?)

The Mostali are cold-hearted, machine-minded bastards. They care only about repairing the World Machine - and as the Mostali say:

"Everyone is our enemy who is not a dwarf, or who is not dwarf-made, or who is not a slave of the dwarfs and the Machine. Our enemies are many."

The Aldryami are also cold-hearted, inscrutable bastards. They care only about their forests (they could care less about non-aldryami forests - they are not environmentalists!). Screw with an aldryami forest in any way (and that can even include places that are not obviously aldryami) and the aldryami will kill you. Aldryami opinions are based solely on the potential threat or benefit a race poses to their forest.

Check out http://www.glorantha.com/library/elder/index.html for more information on the elder races.

Jeff

 

[richaje]

Actually looking at some of my notes on the history of the Gbaji Wars (much of this will be released next year in the Orlanthi Unfinished Work Greg and I wrote), it looks like Arkat became a troll in 449 or 450. Not long before he entered Dorastor and fought Nysalor.

Jeff

 

[Exubae]

The Mostali are cold-hearted, machine-minded bastards. They care only about repairing the World Machine - and as the Mostali say:

"Everyone is our enemy who is not a dwarf, or who is not dwarf-made, or who is not a slave of the dwarfs and the Machine. Our enemies are many."

The Mostali are in a world of their own full of shedules, bizzare time scales, widgets, and adjustable spanners. Everything they use is produced/crafted; food (usually supplied in tin cans), equipment, possibly even young (though no dwarf willl speak of their experiences in the reproduction lab).

 

[ninthcouncil]

possibly even young (though no dwarf willl speak of their experiences in the reproduction lab).

There are rumours of something called the "mortar and pestle procedure", but perhaps we ought to draw a discreet veil over such things...

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Did Arkat become a troll, or just similar to the trolls ?

Arkat became a mistress race troll sometime between 446 and 449 in order to gain the powers necessary to enter Dorastor and defeat Nysalor.

The Trolls do have a ritual to allow those unfortunate enough not to have been born as Uz to become Trolls, It was described in Trollpak, and is not something that should be undertaken lightly... Basiclly the Trolls tear you apart and rebuild you in their image, then wait to see if you wake up as a Troll. If you do, then they celebrate with a feast with you, and if not, they commiserate with a feast on[b/b] you...

Arkat emerging as a mistress race troll is a definite indication of his power!

 

[soltakss]

Of course, this ritual does not allow people to become Uz.

Only those Uz cursed to have been an Uzl born in a non-uzl body can undergo this ritual successfully.

So, Arkat was clearly an Uz spirit born into a human body in error. That error was fixed and everybody is happy.

 

[richaje]

Of course, this ritual does not allow people to become Uz.

Only those Uz cursed to have been an Uzl born in a non-uzl body can undergo this ritual successfully.

So, Arkat was clearly an Uz spirit born into a human body in error. That error was fixed and everybody is happy.

Simon is absolutely right - this is the Uz take on things. The Orlanthi (and damn near everyone else), view Arkat as the Traitor. BTW, the Orlanth King List lists Arkat as:

Arkat King of Battle [c 440]
The great warlord Arkat came to Slontos and Kerofinela with Harmast Barefoot, the great heroquester. Thus many people followed him and sent their warriors to go with Arkat. He was called King of Battle, and for a period everyone followed his word because they wished to rid the land of enemies. But Arkat only knew about fighting. and when this was done most people named their own rulers, and made demands on their neighbors. Arkat then went northward and never acted as a true king.

Jeff

 

[homerjsinnott]

OK, here's a few short answers. For longer answers, I recommend that you get your hands on as much Gloranthan background as you possibly can!

Is Zorak Zoran a troll god strictly, or is he worshipped by some humans as well ?

Zorak Zoran is worshiped by some humans - although mostly by trolls. At this time, the cult of Zorak Zoran is particularly powerful in Dagori Inkarth - and his cult leaders are said by some to be more powerful than the Uzuz queens in Dagori Inkarth.

Did Arkat become a troll, or just similar to the trolls ?

Arkat became a mistress race troll sometime between 446 and 449 in order to gain the powers necessary to enter Dorastor and defeat Nysalor.

Is there such a thing as atheists in Glorantha ?

Yep. The Brithini are atheists. They recognize the existence of the gods (although they deny them any particular importance) but they worship neither gods, spirits, nor even the Invisible God. Mostali (dwarfs) are also atheists and worship nothing.

What exactly is the crimson bat and how does it connect to the lunars in the third age ?

The Crimson Bat is a horrible chaos demon the Red Goddess mastered as her steed. It exists to travel about and reminds everyone of the Goddess' great power.

Just how common is "iron" ?

Very rare. Except for the Mostali who have it in droves.

The Mostali descriptions sound like they have very few non-aggressive dealings with others, same for the aldryami really. Im sure there must be more to it than just fighting. Examples and details ? (and where are good places to find more info on these two races ?)

The Mostali are cold-hearted, machine-minded bastards. They care only about repairing the World Machine - and as the Mostali say:

"Everyone is our enemy who is not a dwarf, or who is not dwarf-made, or who is not a slave of the dwarfs and the Machine. Our enemies are many."

The Aldryami are also cold-hearted, inscrutable bastards. They care only about their forests (they could care less about non-aldryami forests - they are not environmentalists!). Screw with an aldryami forest in any way (and that can even include places that are not obviously aldryami) and the aldryami will kill you. Aldryami opinions are based solely on the potential threat or benefit a race poses to their forest.

Check out http://www.glorantha.com/library/elder/index.html for more information on the elder races.

Jeff

So what is your opinion on Trolls? as it seems as thought you hate the two other major races.

It would be nice to hear what Shannon Applecline says about the Elves.
Maybe they might give a more sympathic view.

 

[richaje]

So what is your opinion on Trolls? as it seems as thought you hate the two other major races.

It would be nice to hear what Shannon Applecline says about the Elves.
Maybe they might give a more sympathic view.

The trolls are cruel, murdering monsters. They are things of Darkness and are what we fear in the shadows. They can be placated (unlike the Mostali, but like the Aldryami) - if you are willing to pay the price (usually in the form of food - sometimes in the form of human tribute). And the Only Old One is a reliable intermediary between the trolls and men.

None of the Elder Races are particularly sympathetic from the perspective of the humans of Glorantha.

 

[ninthcouncil]

So what is your opinion on Trolls? as it seems as thought you hate the two other major races.

It would be nice to hear what Shannon Applecline says about the Elves.
Maybe they might give a more sympathic view.

The trolls are cruel, murdering monsters. They are things of Darkness and are what we fear in the shadows. They can be placated (unlike the Mostali, but like the Aldryami) - if you are willing to pay the price (usually in the form of food - sometimes in the form of human tribute). And the Only Old One is a reliable intermediary between the trolls and men.

None of the Elder Races are particularly sympathetic from the perspective of the humans of Glorantha.

The trolls, however, are your most reliable allies if you are fighting something Really Bad from outside the traditionally accepted structure of Gloranthan reality - in particular, Chaos. They are Glorantha's licensed destroyers, fulfilling a similar role in the wider Gloranthan context to that of the Uroxi in Orlanthi culture. When there is nothing much that requires destroying, they are dangerous thugs on the margins of society. When your back is against the wall - and the wall is collapsing in on you - they are the ones you want fighting with you, because they never give up.

 

[richaje]

The trolls, however, are your most reliable allies if you are fighting something Really Bad from outside the traditionally accepted structure of Gloranthan reality - in particular, Chaos. They are Glorantha's licensed destroyers, fulfilling a similar role in the wider Gloranthan context to that of the Uroxi in Orlanthi culture. When there is nothing much that requires destroying, they are dangerous thugs on the margins of society. When your back is against the wall - and the wall is collapsing in on you - they are the ones you want fighting with you, because they never give up.

The Orlanthi would agree with this characterization - indeed, the Orlanthi have allied with the trolls on numerous occasions (at the Dawn, against Gbaji, against the God Learners, against the EWF). However, the Dara Happans and the Malkioni would not agree with this characterization. The Dara Happans view the trolls (digijelm) as being no different from broos. Same with most Malkioni.

Jeff

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

On the atheists point, one of the key things about Glorantha is that the gods are real, and that there is irrefutable evidence of that. So not believing in them would be the same as not believing in bread, for example.

One's attitude to them can - of course - vary, including viewing them as nothing more than particularly powerful spirits.

 

[Yoda300]

Troll is the best race. As a troll, you can eat a lot, drink very potent beverages, make love, make children and abandon them to women.
You can spend all your time on self agrandising occupations like Trollball or war (or eating and drinking).
You are not bothered by cold, by darkness. You are of superior physical shape. Only the women are better than you, and they take care that you don't spend too much time at home eating and drinking when there is so much fun playing Trollball, making war, and eating dwarfs or elves.
I wanna be a troll.

 

[Yoda300]

Is there such a thing as atheists in Glorantha ?

Yep. The Brithini are atheists. They recognize the existence of the gods (although they deny them any particular importance) but they worship neither gods, spirits, nor even the Invisible God. Mostali (dwarfs) are also atheists and worship nothing.

I would rather say that Mostali worship Mostal, the Machine World, wich is dead, cold, impersonal, and promise no afterlife.

I believe there are strange people in Vithela that deny the existence of gods altogether.

What exactly is the crimson bat and how does it connect to the lunars in the third age ?

The Crimson Bat is a horrible chaos demon the Red Goddess mastered as her steed. It exists to travel about and reminds everyone of the Goddess' great power.

Cults of Terror says the crimson bat was a natural animal horribly mutated by the flow of chaos in the gods war. Arkat destroyed it in First Age and it did not reappear until Third Age, at the command of the Red Goddess (First Battle of Chaos). It embodies the power of the Goddess on chaos and death, and is used to destroy ennemies.

 

[richaje]

Troll is the best race. As a troll, you can eat a lot, drink very potent beverages, make love, make children and abandon them to women.
You can spend all your time on self agrandising occupations like Trollball or war (or eating and drinking).
You are not bothered by cold, by darkness. You are of superior physical shape. Only the women are better than you, and they take care that you don't spend too much time at home eating and drinking when there is so much fun playing Trollball, making war, and eating dwarfs or elves.
I wanna be a troll.

Hey come on - it sucks to be a troll. You are doomed to a miserable existence in the Hurtplace, cursed by the Great Woe, constantly hungry, tormented by the Burning Sun, plagued by humans, threatened by dwarfs armed with Burning Iron, and constantly reminded of all the above by the vexing hordes of pathetic enlo who should be given a mercy killing - except you need for your communities to survive. It sucks to be a troll!

 

[richaje]

Cults of Terror says the crimson bat was a natural animal horribly mutated by the flow of chaos in the gods war. Arkat destroyed it in First Age and it did not reappear until Third Age, at the command of the Red Goddess (First Battle of Chaos). It embodies the power of the Goddess on chaos and death, and is used to destroy ennemies.

The has been a lot more discovered about the Crimson Bat (and the Red Goddess) since Cults of Terror came out in 1981. If you really want to know about the Crimson Bat (or the Red Goddess) I'd advise just buying a copy of ILH-2 "Under the Red Moon".

Jeff

 

[Yoda300]

Cults of Terror says the crimson bat was a natural animal horribly mutated by the flow of chaos in the gods war. Arkat destroyed it in First Age and it did not reappear until Third Age, at the command of the Red Goddess (First Battle of Chaos). It embodies the power of the Goddess on chaos and death, and is used to destroy ennemies.

The has been a lot more discovered about the Crimson Bat (and the Red Goddess) since Cults of Terror came out in 1981. If you really want to know about the Crimson Bat (or the Red Goddess) I'd advise just buying a copy of ILH-2 "Under the Red Moon".

Jeff

Yes, but:
- I was looking for a simple answer, stating the Crimson Bat is not active in the Second Age (unless it has changed).
- Under the Red Moon is not MRQ material as far as I know.
- Under the Red Mood don't say anything useful about the story of the Crimson Bat; it's just a new name, more rules and more feats.
- I try to influence everyone by quoting only RQ2 or RQ3 material; I would prefer MRQ staying clear of some HQ's inclinations (colliding worlds, more cults and subcults than living beings, undescribed magical powers and so on).

 

[richaje]

I was looking for a simple answer, stating the Crimson Bat is not active in the Second Age (unless it has changed).

No, the Crimson Bat is not active in the Second Age. However, Blaskarth the Cosmic Death (the cosmic annihilation god of Rinliddi - possible the same entity the Orlanthi call Kajabor) is active in the Second Age (and the First and the Great Darkness.

- Under the Red Moon is not MRQ material as far as I know.
- I try to influence everyone by quoting only RQ2 or RQ3 material; I would prefer MRQ staying clear of some HQ's inclinations (colliding worlds, more cults and subcults than living beings, undescribed magical powers and so on).

Mongoose is publishing materials to enable folk to use MRQ in Greg Stafford's Glorantha. Greg has written a lot of material since the days of RQ2 and RQ3 - and that newer material is a very large part of the body of literature that makes up Greg Stafford's Glorantha. Fwiw, the "colliding worlds" dates back to Cults of Terror, the number of cults and subcults is designed to make Glorantha feel more like a real polytheist society, and magical powers undescribed by the rules is going to be inherent in any game world that actually tries to reflect its sources.

The fact of the matter was that RQ2 and RQ3 were both very flawed in how they presented Glorantha. Relying only on RQ2 and RQ3 means that you are deliberately refusing to use the core published Gloranthan texts that Greg himself relies upon (as do folk writing with Greg) - texts like:
King of Sartar
Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
The Fortunate Succession
Revealed Mythologies
The Middle Sea Empire

And it will mean you would refuse to use the yet unpublished collection of Orlanthi myths and Theyalan and Hendriki history. And it means you would refuse to use "Harmastsaga" once it is published.

Now that is fine - you certainly are under no obligation to read or use any of those texts - your Glorantha can be whatever you want it to be. But for everyone else, I strongly recommend looking beyond just the RQ2 and RQ3 materials to understand Glorantha.

Jeff

PS. None of the texts I've mentioned are HQ texts.

 

[Yoda300]

No, the Crimson Bat is not active in the Second Age. However, Blaskarth the Cosmic Death (the cosmic annihilation god of Rinliddi - possible the same entity the Orlanthi call Kajabor) is active in the Second Age (and the First and the Great Darkness.

Where did you read this one ?

Relying only on RQ2 and RQ3 means that you are deliberately refusing to use the core published Gloranthan texts that Greg himself relies upon (as do folk writing with Greg) - texts like:
King of Sartar
Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
The Fortunate Succession
Revealed Mythologies
The Middle Sea Empire

No. I read King of Sartar and liked it a lot. And it was fully compatible with RQ.
As for the other texts, have they been released or are they still Works in Progress ?
I wait impatiently for Harmast Saga too.

PS. None of the texts I've mentioned are HQ texts.

You said it.