Starship Troopers

LWhitehead

Mongoose
Hi I know that Mongoose Publishing doesn't publish Starship Troopers RPG anymore, but one question that's bin nagging me isn't the Terrans in that furture an anlog to Nazi Germany?.


I mean what about the groups of Humans who don't want to follow Terran Goverment like Pirates,


LW
 
LWhitehead said:
Hi I know that Mongoose Publishing doesn't publish Starship Troopers RPG anymore, but one question that's bin nagging me isn't the Terrans in that furture an anlog to Nazi Germany?.


I mean what about the groups of Humans who don't want to follow Terran Goverment like Pirates,


LW

To dare say such a thing proves your utter ignorance of the original story. PICK UP THE BOOK AND FLIP PAUL VERHOEVEN THE FINGER FOR MAKING THE M.I. INTO A BUNCH OF ARYAN PRETTY BOYS. Gah. Sorry to sound like such an ass, but even I found that offensive.

To answer your question though, I imagine Pirates would be dealt with swiftly by The Fleet, much like how the M.I. put down rebellions on Federation worlds.

Also, to shed a little light on what I meant at the top...NO. NO NO NO. The Director of the movie had a severe Nazi fetish and he RUINED Starship Troopers when he made it. So, whenever you see that movie, IGNORE the story. It's irrelevant and NOTHING like the book. Just enjoy all the bloody green ichor on the ground, dead bugs, shooting and mini-nukes being used like they're going out of style.

Here's the real way the Terran Federation worked.
The difference between a Citizen and a Civilian was exclusively the right to Franchise. No, not to own a fast food place in a nationwide chain, but the right to Vote. In the movie, they tried to say that the ONLY way to earn Franchise(Among other ridiculous things, like College funding and Licenses to have children, neither of which were existent in the true story.) was MILITARY service.
This is extremely....Utterly...disgustingly incorrect.
It's FEDERAL SERVICE. This isn't just Military service. Military service including both Infantry and Fleet were a very mere 5% of all Federal service jobs offered. Most were as simple as working in an office pushing paper from desk to desk or filing reports or even just community cleaning. The Military jobs were reserved only for people who truly qualified.

The movie depicted the Mobile Infantryman as a Soap Opera star with an unwieldy assault rifle and body armour made of what might as well have bee cardboard. (It didn't protect against their own rifle ammo as seen on several occasions in Hopper Canyon and on Whiskey Outpost, let alone Warrior's scything claws and crunching jaws.) and either male or female. The Mobile Infantry were actually much better trained and equipped and were exclusively male(While much of the Fleet was exclusively female.) A Cap Trooper received no less than almost two years worth of training, mostly in the harsh Canadian Rockies. They were shot at with live ammo during training and subjected to a physical training course that put the USMC's "Crucible" to shame.

The part on Gender may sound sexist, but the honest to god fact is that Women naturally have a better grasp of math than Men do, while Men are born to fight, while women are not. Why try to cross-train someone for a skill-type they weren't naturally born with?

Continuing on with the Government section.
The Terran government did exclusively use corporal punishment to control crime and many would, could and can call this barbaric, but it's effective. If a man is found guilty of murder, you don't kill him to show that killing is wrong, you kill him to protect society from him and instill the fear of the firing squad into any future murderers. However, if a person is guilty of stealing, you whip the crap out of them to instill the fear of the bullwhip into all potential thieves.
The other part of this however was based on personal pride. All offenders who received lashes were placed in the town center as a free spectacle for anyone who happened to pass by. To be lashed in public for a petty crime would also bring shame on one's self and one's family. It's pretty much the same lines as "Spare the rod, spoil the child."

But! At absolutely no point in time did the the society Heinlein depicted appear Nazi like(Unless the reader in question was a U.S. Liberal who just skimmed six pages, then declared the book a 100+ page recruiting poster and an updated version of "Mein Kaempf." or some other insanely ignorant statement.). People were perfectly free to do as they pleased, even speak out against the government if they felt elected officials weren't meeting the standards they were expected to be held to.
Really, it isn't much different from how Democracy is supposed to work, except for the requirement to do something deeming yourself worthy of choosing who leads your own nation's government.

Really all it boils down to is.... Go read the damn book and make your own opinion. It's 56 years old and it's still in print. Not hard to find, nor to afford.
 
The Federation depicted in SST is militaristic, but not Nazi. Although some of the costumes and images were Nazi-like.

Don't believe the previous poster's rant when he tells you the director had a 'Nazi-fetish'. Paul Verhoeven was born in Holland and lived through the Nazi occupation.

There is some mention in Mongoose's source material about humans who live outside the Federation - colonists principally. I think there is also some form of rebel/raider/mercenary type military bands, but it is a long while since I read it.
 
Greg Smith said:
The Federation depicted in SST is militaristic, but not Nazi. Although some of the costumes and images were Nazi-like.

Don't believe the previous poster's rant when he tells you the director had a 'Nazi-fetish'. Paul Verhoeven was born in Holland and lived through the Nazi occupation.

There is some mention in Mongoose's source material about humans who live outside the Federation - colonists principally. I think there is also some form of rebel/raider/mercenary type military bands, but it is a long while since I read it.

The society isn't so "Militaristic" as you put it, they're more.... Good god I can't remember the man's name. There was a Swiss psychologist (Not Carl G. Jung though) who promoted a society form very similar to the one in the book. Well, that point is invalid because I can't remember the man's name. Lol. Maybe you know it?

Anyways, did you watch the Director's commentary on the DVD? I know I know, he didn't say it seriously, but Ed Neumeier mentioned that Paul was on his Nazi fetish when he made the movie.

You're right on the Rebel/raider/mercenary thing though. The books mention Colonies occasionally going rebel and overthrowing the Citizens in charge. I'd have to imagine there are pirates too, since as long as shipping exists, there will be pirates. Mercenaries is a given too. As long as you have a free society, there's bound to be PMCs of some sort. Since money and war have been invented there's been Mercenaries. Why fight when you can hire someone else to do it? They might even be better at it. :wink:
 
I've read the comics series that was released when Starship Troopers RPG first came out, by the second series the main character is a homeless vet and it shown the underbelly of this Federation of Humans.

What about Convicts?, always a historic source of fighting people. What about Corporations?, they have allways done well in Military Facist like states.


Pirates are free people not matter which way you slice the meat, yes there criminals and scum of space but they at least vote to attack targets and plans.

LW
 
LWhitehead said:
I've read the comics series that was released when Starship Troopers RPG first came out, by the second series the main character is a homeless vet and it shown the underbelly of this Federation of Humans.

What about Convicts?, always a historic source of fighting people. What about Corporations?, they have allways done well in Military Facist like states.


Pirates are free people not matter which way you slice the meat, yes there criminals and scum of space but they at least vote to attack targets and plans.

LW

Ah, I just read those recently as well. Loved 'em. Although, here's the problem with using Convicts....The Federation doesn't have any. They don't have prisons or a prison system. All crimes are punished through capital punishment. So if you murder or rape, you're put to trial. Found guilty? You're immediately executed for it. Steal something? You're given five or six lashes in public and then let go to heal while your harsh lesson sinks into your back.

Corporations however, of course! In the book, think of the how much the those armoured suits and all their systems must cost per unit? Millions at least! A US M1 Tank costs about 2.1 mil each if I remember correctly. An armoured suit like that, or like the Exosuits in the Miniatures game probably cost nearly that.

Not to mention the food industries, arms industries, etc. As for the films, Mr. Morita and the company manufacturing his rifle had be making billions off rifle, part and ammo production. Another comic, called Insect Touch, which explains events 30 years prior to the movies showed that Morita already had a contract with the Federation to make their basic infantry weapons.

As for pirates voting though....Doesn't sound quite right. History has mainly shown that the Captain chooses targets believed to be valuable, or at least vulnerable. The crew just goes along with it as long as they get a share. As for being 'free' though, absolutely. They're free people.
 
I've heard that Starship Troopers the novel is very anti-communist and I look forward to reading it as soon as I pick it up.

I've read the Communist Manifesto while on holiday and I'm looking to compare notes and develop a futuristic society based off of ST.
 
shotgun-toting chipmunk said:
Ah, but in some instances crews would vote for their captain. And of course an accord would be reached among the crew before setting sail...

Ah.... I had not known that before. Now I'll have to learn more about pirates. :P I think I lost all the knowledge of them when I started studying the early Roman Empire. Lol.
 
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