Starship Operator's Manual - Others for CT?

[rinku]

If you want a scout

TL15		tons	cost (MCr.)
Hull	100 tons, streamlined		6.0
M-drive	thrust 1, size reduction x3	0.7	3.0
J-drive	jump 2, reduced fuel x3	10
power plant	fusion TL15, power 60	3	6
Fuel tanks	jump 1 x8, 12 weeks power plant	69
bridge	small	6	0.5
computer	computer/20		5
sensors	advanced	5
systems	fuel processor (20 tons/day) fuel scoops	1	0.05
accommodation	stateroom	4	0.5
software	intellect jump control library maneuver
cargo		1.3

Sweet.

I'd consider maybe a low berth or two to stretch crew capability.

 

[rinku]

I think that's true of each edition of Traveller, to a larger or smaller extent.

Fusion+ was born in T4, I think. T5 has certainly brought new options to the game. Look at what TNE did with lasers, and they introduced the cold laser, too.

MT introduced the T-Plate thruster panel.

Heck, even in early CT there were things that have now been forgotten. There's the thought that ships with M-1 drives could not make escape velocity from Size 8 or bigger worlds. I actually use that in my games. A lot of people don't like it.

Then, this was revised to say a streamlined craft with an M-1 drive could make escape velocity from a Size 8+ world if the world had an atmosphere. I use that, too.

Those M-1 vessels could purchase one time use rockets that attached to the outer hull, and when ignited, produced enough thrust to take a ship through escape velocity even from a Size 8+ world even without an atmosphere to provide aerodynamic lift. The lift rockets were only available on worlds a specific TL and/or starport class--I've forgotten the specifics.

MT brought to that edition the thought of "overdrive" to make escape velocity--where an M-1 drive would produce more than 1G of thrust for relatively short periods when lifting from a world.

Stick with the version that you like the best. Be careful not to import and adopt things that you don't like.

TNE took the approach of conragrav seperate to M-Drive. Honestly, that makes the most sense to me anyway, however you define antigravity.

Air/Rafts have always been able to make orbit in a number of hours equal to the UWP, yet clearly don't have 1G thrust (it can cruise at 100kph, 120kph if it really pushes it. Escape velocity from a 1G planet is 40,270 kph, while achieving orbit is more like 28,000 kph). So the concept was there.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Heck, even in early CT there were things that have now been forgotten. There's the thought that ships with M-1 drives could not make escape velocity from Size 8 or bigger worlds. I actually use that in my games. A lot of people don't like it.

I rationalized the 1g ships as being able to take off from high g planets due to the drive being more effective deep inside a 1g+ gravity field so they can achieve slightly more than the local g until achieving orbital velocity. This assumption makes gas giant skimming less questionable too.

 

[MasterGwydion]

TNE took the approach of conragrav seperate to M-Drive. Honestly, that makes the most sense to me anyway, however you define antigravity.

Air/Rafts have always been able to make orbit in a number of hours equal to the UWP, yet clearly don't have 1G thrust (it can cruise at 100kph, 120kph if it really pushes it. Escape velocity from a 1G planet is 40,270 kph, while achieving orbit is more like 28,000 kph). So the concept was there.

A ship can escape from a planet's gravity at 0.001 m/s. Do not confuse thrust with velocity ,acceleration, or escape velocity.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I still use that you can not take off from a >1G with a 1G Drive.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Here is a specialty built TL16 Riftbreaker that can do three J3.

 

[Longboat]

I rationalized the 1g ships as being able to take off from high g planets due to the drive being more effective deep inside a 1g+ gravity field so they can achieve slightly more than the local g until achieving orbital velocity. This assumption makes gas giant skimming less questionable too.

That is a good point. If you go with that old idea, then it precludes the ship from GG refueling. Now, the ship is limited to ice and ocean refueling for raw fuel.

 

[Longboat]

I still use that you can not take off from a >1G with a 1G Drive.

Yes, I just like how stuff like this brings details and "space terrain" to the game. It's a space opera approach, no doubt, but it feels like Golden Age Sci-Fi, and I like it.

These 1G Maneuver Drive ships have to plan for different destinations. It gives a 2G capable shuttle that connects to the ship a reason to exist.

You venture to a Size 8+ world, then you dock at the high port instead of visiting the world's surface (depending on the Starport Class). You load cargo from the world's surface, then you have the added cost of surface to orbit cargo shuttles who fly up to a designated point in oribit and allow cargo to float free. Then, you maneuver your ship to the area, put on the old Vacc Suit, and push in the cargo.

Your creative Ref can use Book 8 in a CT game to create specialized cargo robots for certain high G worlds to help with the cargo on certain high-tech worlds.

There's a "Shepherd class" robot that flies around orbiting cargo and keeps it from flying off, being stolen, or crashing back to the planet.

I just love little creative ideas like this. You look at the stats of a world and its system. You see the problems presented. Then, you use the game's tools to make the environment memorable for the players.

"Hey, Remember Pysadi? Yeah, the world with the religious zealots and less than half a G gravity. We were bouncing all over the place."

 

[rinku]

That is a good point. If you go with that old idea, then it precludes the ship from GG refueling. Now, the ship is limited to ice and ocean refueling for raw fuel.

Not at all. The ship isn't landing on the gas giant and then trying to take off. It's entering orbit, then dipping to a lower or more eccentric orbit to skim.

If in orbit it's just a matter of applying thrust to build up velocity enough to reach escape velocity.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Not at all. The ship isn't landing on the gas giant and then trying to take off. It's entering orbit, then dipping to a lower or more eccentric orbit to skim.

If in orbit it's just a matter of applying thrust to build up velocity enough to reach escape velocity.

You are within the atmosphere of a gas giant. In Traveller, once you are within the atmosphere of a planetary body, you are affected by the gravity of the planetary body. I am aware of no rules for changing gravity based on altitude. Gravity of planetary bodies in Traveller seems to be binary. It is either affecting you and your ship or it is not. If you are aware of such a rule, can you point out where so that I can go and read the whole section?

 

[Condottiere]

Local gravity, plus ten percent, to achieve escape velocity.

Can't recall if that's on hundred ten percent of local gravity, or plus one tenth gee acceleration.

I assume that's the principle behind how air/rafts do it.

 

[rinku]

You are within the atmosphere of a gas giant. In Traveller, once you are within the atmosphere of a planetary body, you are affected by the gravity of the planetary body. I am aware of no rules for changing gravity based on altitude. Gravity of planetary bodies in Traveller seems to be binary. It is either affecting you and your ship or it is not. If you are aware of such a rule, can you point out where so that I can go and read the whole section?

I refer you to 1977.

Before things got simplified, we had planetary templates with concentric gravitational rings in 0.25 G increments for the vector based ship combat.

And I have never come across anything that conflated gravity with atmosphere like that. Are you literally saying a ship isn't affected by the gravity of an airless world? Please.

But sure, you're going to get drag from skimming that will need to be dealt with. Streamlining helps. And a 1G ship is going to have a harder time of it than a 2G one and may be advised to send in a fuel shuttle.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I think that's true of each edition of Traveller, to a larger or smaller extent.

It is

Fusion+ was born in T4, I think. T5 has certainly brought new options to the game. Look at what TNE did with lasers, and they introduced the cold laser, too.

MT introduced the T-Plate thruster panel.

They even changed stuff between 77 edition CT and 81

Heck, even in early CT there were things that have now been forgotten. There's the thought that ships with M-1 drives could not make escape velocity from Size 8 or bigger worlds. I actually use that in my games. A lot of people don't like it.

That's because escape velocity is only used for an object that can no longer accelerate, firing a projectile into orbit or using a rocket with a limited amount of fuel. For any object with unlimited acceleration then escape velocity is not important.

Then, this was revised to say a streamlined craft with an M-1 drive could make escape velocity from a Size 8+ world if the world had an atmosphere. I use that, too.

Very wise

Those M-1 vessels could purchase one time use rockets that attached to the outer hull, and when ignited, produced enough thrust to take a ship through escape velocity even from a Size 8+ world even without an atmosphere to provide aerodynamic lift. The lift rockets were only available on worlds a specific TL and/or starport class--I've forgotten the specifics.

Escape velocity is a measure only applicable to an object fired from the ground that can not accelerate in and of itself. An object with unlimited acceleration - four weeks at 1g - can achieve orbit provided it can get off the ground in the first place. A long runway and minimal streamlining, repulsors, rocket boost, they will all do nicely

MT brought to that edition the thought of "overdrive" to make escape velocity--where an M-1 drive would produce more than 1G of thrust for relatively short periods when lifting from a world.

Stick with the version that you like the best. Be careful not to import and adopt things that you don't like.

And that is the most important thing.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I still use that you can not take off from a >1G with a 1G Drive.

Can you roll forward? Can you accelerate along the ground? If yes then you accelerate on a very long road until you achieve escape speed

 

[Sigtrygg]

You are within the atmosphere of a gas giant. In Traveller, once you are within the atmosphere of a planetary body, you are affected by the gravity of the planetary body. I am aware of no rules for changing gravity based on altitude. Gravity of planetary bodies in Traveller seems to be binary. It is either affecting you and your ship or it is not. If you are aware of such a rule, can you point out where so that I can go and read the whole section?

Classic Traveller did in LBB:2 77, 81 and TTB.

Alternatively you can just use real physics equations to calculate the gravitic acceleration at a given distance from a world of known gravity and radius.
g _h = g _e . ( 1 - 2h/R _e )

note this is only good for situations where h is much less than R (up to 200km it should be close enough), if you want the full equation

g _h = g _e . ( R _e + h )² / R _e ²

which is better.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I refer you to 1977.

Before things got simplified, we had planetary templates with concentric gravitational rings in 0.25 G increments for the vector based ship combat.

So how does that effect 100D for jumping since the reason jumping near a body is dangerous is due to gravity?

And I have never come across anything that conflated gravity with atmosphere like that. Are you literally saying a ship isn't affected by the gravity of an airless world? Please.

No, I am using the atmosphere as a convenient dividing line. Most airless worlds do not have much gravity anyhow, otherwise they would not be airless.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Can you roll forward? Can you accelerate along the ground? If yes then you accelerate on a very long road until you achieve escape speed

If you have some form of lifting body, then yes, of course you can, provided the required velocity doesn't exceed the limits of the airframe. Ships are still speed limited in an atmosphere, yes?

 

[CordwainerFish]

When someone says "show me the rule", often as not I will point them at my boxed set of the Feynman Lectures. Their response at that point informs me of whether I actually need them in my life.

 

[Condottiere]

The only hull with implied fragility is dispersed configuration.

And actual acceleration of factor/zero, would let us know as to how small a moon a spacecraft with that speed could take off from.

 

[Longboat]

I am aware of no rules for changing gravity based on altitude. Gravity of planetary bodies in Traveller seems to be binary.

There's the Planetary Templates in CT that maps out G-Bands showing the distance from the surface of the world up through near orbit where the gravity pull of the world decreases. If you have The Traveller Book, look at pages 78-79.