Star Fleet Rulebook PDF

[McKinstry]

To put it simply, while a pdf is nice, it is hardly neccessary.

It will be convenient to use it on my Ipad but it certainly does not affect my playing of the game.

I just think it is unfortunate to take a cheap hit to image by missing a delivery date by a wide margin on a peripheral product.

 

[krashreed]

I wish this was just about just the PDF! But at the root of the anger over the PDF at least for me is a whole slew of broken promises...

1. Models were originally to be in resin. The resin was so bad it looks like they had a team of rats chewing it out of te mold. This was a major failure at launch, other companies have pulled this off with much more detail why couldn't mongoose. Look at the recently released dropzone for a case in point.

2. So as a result we as consumers ad to suck it up, whil they prepared for a relaunch in metal. Oh and by the way at in increased price for an inferior product.

3. Then we get to rules that finally after relaunch were so FAQ'd up that my book looks like a corrected high school term paper, with all the red ink.

4. Last we get to the inventory issue, you would think that with going to metal and the promise to be able to churn out models faster that stores would start getting inventory of blister packs. But yet my local store here in the states has yet to get any. I don know if this s the Mongoose strategy to only be able to get blisters directly but I can tell you that this strategy will kill this game. It already has at our store.

I love trek and was excited about g ame in the beginning and had great hopes for this game. But all the broken promises among the parties involved and lack of available models has killed the joy and the game for me.

 

[Allerka]

This game is HUGE!

*Looks at his copy of the only ACTA rulebook, 125 pages long, then looks at his 432-page Warhammer rulebook and multiple bookshelves filled with codices and rules supplements*

...It is?

I wish this was just about just the PDF! But at the root of the anger over the PDF at least for me is a whole slew of broken promises...

1. Models were originally to be in resin. The resin was so bad it looks like they had a team of rats chewing it out of te mold. This was a major failure at launch, other companies have pulled this off with much more detail why couldn't mongoose. Look at the recently released dropzone for a case in point.

So, they looked like your average Citadel Finecast model, then. :roll:

2. So as a result we as consumers ad to suck it up, whil they prepared for a relaunch in metal. Oh and by the way at in increased price for an inferior product.

Dude, I hate metal models. But not as much as I hate resin. I am SO glad they went to metal. Plastic would be even better, but I'm sure that wouldn't be feasible for them. As for the prices, these models cost pennies on the dollar compared to Games Workshop stuff. And even after the price increase on fleet boxes, they're still great bargains compared to buying ships individually.

3. Then we get to rules that finally after relaunch were so FAQ'd up that my book looks like a corrected high school term paper, with all the red ink.

At least they DID FAQs. I've got friends in Warhammer that wait YEARS for any kind of updates or fixes to their armies.

4. Last we get to the inventory issue, you would think that with going to metal and the promise to be able to churn out models faster that stores would start getting inventory of blister packs. But yet my local store here in the states has yet to get any. I don know if this s the Mongoose strategy to only be able to get blisters directly but I can tell you that this strategy will kill this game. It already has at our store.[/quote]
Oh noes, we have to wait a couple extra days to order individual ships, clearly this will kill our interest in the game!

I dunno about you, but I can only get to my local store once a week, if that. Even if they carried the models on-hand, it wouldn't make a difference anyway, since it takes me a couple days to get a ship fully painted anyway, so it's not like I'd be able to play with it right away.

 

[Lincolnlog]

Allerka, when I said the game is "HUGE" I was referring to enthusiasm, popularity of the game, not the size of the rulebook. I generally don't like rule books this thin.

As a historical wargamer, thick rulebooks don't really frighten me. I have always said that the computer game killed wargaming, and short gamer attention spans prevent it from rebounding. I can't play any of WoTC's crap, can't even believe they can call that stuff a wargame, seem like false advertising to me.

I play SFB, you want to see a thick rule book, take a look at that. HUGE means I love it, not that it's a pain or a drag, I'm a massive fan! Can't wait for more material, more ships, more mini's, etc...

 

[scuy]

Dude, I hate metal models. But not as much as I hate resin. I am SO glad they went to metal. Plastic would be even better, but I'm sure that wouldn't be feasible for them.

Plastic is a form of Resin. Oh a love hate relationship.

 

[tlee33]

I think most of the people who said they're not going to play any more are those that thought they could get it free without buying the rulebook. why else would would a PDF make someone stop playing? it's not a necessity to the game. it's convenient but not needed. it is annoying though that Mongoose keeps saying its coming and it doesn't. I gave up on this a long time ago, and I'll be pleasantly surprised when it finally does come out.

 

[Nerroth]

There's a section in the latest ADB blog update that takes a look at (their current stance on) ACtA:SF:

4. CALL TO ARMS: Mongoose will release additional squadron boxes and another Call to Arms Journal on their own schedule, and book #2 Battle Fleets will be done this fall. What matters to ADB, Inc., is the need to finish up the Ship Card packs (delayed by issues fixing mistakes on the drafts) but once those are done the reprint of Book #1 can continue. Because we have almost sold out of Book #1, we may well have to push the Ship Card project forward in the work order, but we're all very reluctant to see any more ADB, Inc., products delayed by work on Mongoose products.

Hopefully, by the time the PDF is ready, the reprint and card packs will be set to go without further complications... but, we'll see.

 

[Greg Smith]

It could be those who would only buy the pdf. Who won't use an old-fashioned book out of preference. Mongoose haven't come up with a pdf at all, and they did promise one after a delay to keep retailers happy.

 

[Allerka]

Allerka, when I said the game is "HUGE" I was referring to enthusiasm, popularity of the game, not the size of the rulebook.

Fair enough. I kinda suspected that's what you were talking about.

Plastic is a form of Resin. Oh a love hate relationship.

Oh, I know. But it's amazing how a slight change in formula can mean the difference between constant miscats, air bubbles, and brittle material to work with versus none of that happening.

 

[Jean]

4. CALL TO ARMS: Mongoose will release additional squadron boxes and another Call to Arms Journal on their own schedule, and book #2 Battle Fleets will be done this fall.

Just a correction. In the blog Nerroth cites, "this fall" was a mental hiccup and should have been "next year". It was quickly corrected, but obviously not before Nerroth read it.

 

[H]

I think most of the people who said they're not going to play any more are those that thought they could get it free without buying the rulebook. why else would would a PDF make someone stop playing? it's not a necessity to the game. it's convenient but not needed. it is annoying though that Mongoose keeps saying its coming and it doesn't. I gave up on this a long time ago, and I'll be pleasantly surprised when it finally does come out.

to be fair, if anyone wants one for free, they can go get one now on certain sites, however I wish to purchase a pdf, I wish to have the game in a convenient tablet readable format, so I have all my rulebooks in one, .7cm thick, 10" screen format, thats 50 or so books, in the space of one, with a handy search function, bookmark function, and i even have a dice roller program.

you may not have noticed, but technology has advanced, their are a lot of people who no longer buy, "physical" books, for various reasons. Mine was a full bookshelf, destructive kids, and general convenience, I can't arrive somewhere with the wrong book, as they are ALL on the tab... though i could arrive with no books if I left it at home. heck, i even had rpg character sheets in a digital format, don't loose em, don't see the dog eat them etc.
whilst people seem to have their view of we are scroungers after a free game and we should just forget it and buy a hardback, try thinking instead of accusing.
a PDF was promised, it has not arrived. Thats the issue. we are not amused.

 

[Reynard]

This is why business scares me. Mongoose and ADB came up with a great idea to create and distribute a pdf version of the game. Better yet, it's free to those who purchased the hardcopy game which says 'Thank you!" to me. It makes sense Matthew had to announce this at about the time it seemed set in stone the project would happen and it seems so obvious to many that the game is already digitized and ready to go even if it needs some rule changes. Simple, right.

This is why I'm not a businessman. I feel for Matthew at this point. I have no idea what is going on behind closed doors to delay the product and I doubt it's the product itself. We have heard they need to rewrite and add things like new pictures but that shouldn't be dragging the final product for months. No, there's more going on in that business..y way things get bogged down.

I think Matthew has been doing a good job keeping the topic alive and I can see he's working with what he's given, not sure how involved he is with the sticking points. It does sound like he thought the product was supposed to be out way back too and gets the wonderful job of reporting each next delay while keeping enthusiasm up. Yes, that's bad for business and doesn't make the messenger popular. In a perfect world, they would have planned better, including rewrites and inserts, and demanded a more reasonable release date based on what they knew. Don't make a firm commitment until and unless you know it's true. Tell us "We have this great idea and we'll keep you informed on it's progress and give you a release date when it's finishd."

So guys, work out your problems with the pdf but hold off annoucing a firm release date until you have a firm release date. We'll play the game but be reasonable to our expectations. Anything else is bad business.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

This is also part of why a certain other large model company detests gamers knowing what's happening any more than about 2 weeks in advance. Personally, I prefer the approach of being more open and occassionally having to say "Oops, something's gone wrong. Plans have changed."

 

[Lincolnlog]

It makes sense Matthew had to announce this at about the time it seemed set in stone the project would happen and it seems so obvious to many that the game is already digitized and ready to go even if it needs some rule changes. Simple, right.

Yes and because it's digitized you have to wonder what the hold up is?

We have heard they need to rewrite and add things like new pictures but that shouldn't be dragging the final product for months.

Even if there are further rewrites, the material will update on Wargemer's Vault/Drive Thru RPG. So, why not go ahead and put out what is completed.

I think Matthew has been doing a good job keeping the topic alive and I can see he's working with what he's given, not sure how involved he is with the sticking points. It does sound like he thought the product was supposed to be out way back too and gets the wonderful job of reporting each next delay while keeping enthusiasm up. Yes, that's bad for business and doesn't make the messenger popular. In a perfect world, they would have planned better, including rewrites and inserts, and demanded a more reasonable release date based on what they knew.

I'm not sure this really anyones fault, it's a great product, obviously perfection is too high a standard to expect. Of course it complicates issues when two extremely busy comapnies both have to vet something before it's released.

Don't make a firm commitment until and unless you know it's true. Tell us "We have this great idea and we'll keep you informed on it's progress and give you a release date when it's finishd."

The rules sets are company HQ responsibility, but ineffiecienies with shipping are here to stay as long as there is a Dayton facility! In my opinion, 90% of the problem with implementation of this was and continues to be the Dayton facility. I do not want anything else from Mongoose unless it is sent from England! ADB in Amarillo very dependable suppliers, Mongoose in England very dependable and customer focused, Dayton (cough, cough) well yeah.

I have had quality control issues with everything that has come from Dayton. In several case they have worked to my advantage. But in the two cases where I actually needed replacement parts, it took weeks to get after it was shipped. Matthew actually sent me the last parts from England after parts didn't show up from Dayton and they got to me 4 days (that is excellent customer service). In the case of a Fed Dreadnaught engine, it never arrived. My rulebook didn't get shipped until I finally complained to Kelly George (the order simply didn't get filled). There is a common denominator here. And everyone makes mistakes. But when you rarely get anything right, hmmmmmm. ADB quality checks their sets, so have never gotten an uncomplete or damaged mini from them. Unfortunately, as partners they never seem to have all the stock needed to fill desired orders. Which leaves you no choice.

 

[tlee33]

whilst people seem to have their view of we are scroungers after a free game and we should just forget it and buy a hardback, try thinking instead of accusing...

To get the PDF, you still needed to buy the hardback, so its not like you had a choice between hardback vs PDF. It was only going to be offered to those that purchased the hardback so you'd still have that book in your bookshelf. The PDF was just suppose to be an added bonus.

Anyway, I know about delays and these things happen. Next time, its probably better to just say its in the works. I think this is why most companies will not give a release date until they are absolutely certain. It just makes people upset if it's delayed.

 

[H]

yes, an initial free pdf for those who bought the book, and a pay for pdf later, delayed at the request of retailers apparantly.

 

[Lincolnlog]

Any update on this?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Ball is now in our court, we are looking to hit it back next week - then it should just be a case of a quick check by the chaps at ADB, approval, and then PDF!

 

[Reynard]

Thanks for all this effort. I have a friend who's making a trip to visit me and he specifically mentioned wanting to play Star Fleet again having enjoyed it the last time he visited around the time the game first came out. Hopefully I'll have time to unlearn the original rules and be familiar with the new.

 

[scuy]

Did you hear?!?!?! "The war will be over by Chrismas!!!" I am on the belief, seeing is believing camp. =P

Also the pdf is for those that have the hard copy correct? Or has this been changed to be free in general?