Just to let you know, Planet Mongoose (http://blog.mongoosepublishing.co.uk/) has posted another rules preview for A Call to Arms: Star Fleet, this time covering some of the advanced rules, plus unveiling the Romulan KR Heavy Cruiser...
Star Fleet Advanced Rules Preview
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Matt: any chance you can explain this, since I'm confused...
Mainly I'm querying the number of phasers the CA will be able to bring to bear... if you're talking Ph1, then surely that would be 2 (4 if between arcs)? Are you including the Ph3s in that?
LOVE the cloaking rules btw - my primary concern (as a Rom fan) was that players could line up for kill shots with the cloaked model. Now, at least, with the free 6" move and 45 degree turn on decloak, anyone trying a photon volley at close range risks having a flanking Romulan who can turn in on him and unload point-blank plasmas instead... remember, Feddies, if you're close enough for photons, you're close enough to have the tables turned, if that Rommie's cloaked.
I still wish there were forward and aft shields, but I guess that would have slowed things down... used to love getting on the target's "six" and lobbing a few photons through the weaker aft shield... it encouraged people to keep their distance.
All in all, loving what I'm hearing... and that KR is just brutal - plasmas, cloaks AND the ability to do a 180 degree in just 4"... it'll make the Fed players think twice before pursuing it with an eye to getting into photon range... that's for sure.
Late addition: OK, just reread the bit about the Fore Arc shields - nice comprimise... not sure if arced shields wouldn't have been easier to tailor in the long run, but I'm presuming that incoming damage will be halved from the front in that rule? (The reason why I said about the arced shields, for the non-SFB/FC players is that each shield pair had a different value, going (usually) stronger to weaker as you went front to back).
Mainly I'm querying the number of phasers the CA will be able to bring to bear... if you're talking Ph1, then surely that would be 2 (4 if between arcs)? Are you including the Ph3s in that?
LOVE the cloaking rules btw - my primary concern (as a Rom fan) was that players could line up for kill shots with the cloaked model. Now, at least, with the free 6" move and 45 degree turn on decloak, anyone trying a photon volley at close range risks having a flanking Romulan who can turn in on him and unload point-blank plasmas instead... remember, Feddies, if you're close enough for photons, you're close enough to have the tables turned, if that Rommie's cloaked.
I still wish there were forward and aft shields, but I guess that would have slowed things down... used to love getting on the target's "six" and lobbing a few photons through the weaker aft shield... it encouraged people to keep their distance.
All in all, loving what I'm hearing... and that KR is just brutal - plasmas, cloaks AND the ability to do a 180 degree in just 4"... it'll make the Fed players think twice before pursuing it with an eye to getting into photon range... that's for sure.
Late addition: OK, just reread the bit about the Fore Arc shields - nice comprimise... not sure if arced shields wouldn't have been easier to tailor in the long run, but I'm presuming that incoming damage will be halved from the front in that rule? (The reason why I said about the arced shields, for the non-SFB/FC players is that each shield pair had a different value, going (usually) stronger to weaker as you went front to back).
Actually, the Federation CA has:BFalcon said:
2x P-1 in the port hemisphere arc
2x P-1 in the starboard hemisphere arc
and
2x P-1 in the forward hemisphere.
That means 6 AD of P-1s if you are centerlined on the PH / SH line and 4 AD if you're off to either side of the centerline.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
What's the Energy Bleed trait? Representing the plasma's loss of warhead strength?
Bfalcon wrote: "All in all, loving what I'm hearing... and that KR is just brutal - plasmas, cloaks AND the ability to do a 180 degree in just 4"... "
I think it's 180 in 8", isn't it? You need to go forward 4" before the first turn. So forward 4, quarter-turn, forward 4, quarter turn.
BTW if you think the KR is brutal, I think you'll go crazy over the SparrowHawk.
Bfalcon wrote: "All in all, loving what I'm hearing... and that KR is just brutal - plasmas, cloaks AND the ability to do a 180 degree in just 4"... "
I think it's 180 in 8", isn't it? You need to go forward 4" before the first turn. So forward 4, quarter-turn, forward 4, quarter turn.
BTW if you think the KR is brutal, I think you'll go crazy over the SparrowHawk.
From last week's blog entry:
Also, it seems like there is no bolt option for the plasma torpedoes...
Also, it seems like there is no bolt option for the plasma torpedoes...
PLasma bolts are for little fighters and Romulans who can't count impulses and aim properly
That would be me then..... :wink:
To be fair without the whole impulse system I think seeking weapons are much simpler to use and so I think you may actually lose a lot of flavour by including bolts.
If there was one plasma option I'd want to see it would actually be the Shotgun first, with the Pseudo Torpedo a decent second if the torps are proper onboard seekers.
The bolt would be a long way behind them as would the enveloper (that's my Hydran tendencies showing as I always felt it lost unique flavour for them)
That would be me then..... :wink:
To be fair without the whole impulse system I think seeking weapons are much simpler to use and so I think you may actually lose a lot of flavour by including bolts.
If there was one plasma option I'd want to see it would actually be the Shotgun first, with the Pseudo Torpedo a decent second if the torps are proper onboard seekers.
The bolt would be a long way behind them as would the enveloper (that's my Hydran tendencies showing as I always felt it lost unique flavour for them)
scoutdad said:
Indeed, hence Adrians suggestion of having both players agree that a ship has "boresighted" another ship in the movement phase to avoid disucssions about exactly how many phasers are going to be used in the firing phase. It is extremely sensible and I would strongly advise players to use it even if its not official.....especially when players don't know each other at say tournaments.......
@ Bfalcon - re shields - Note that the Romulan / Klingon ship has the special rule about front arc shields but the Federation one does not........ also the preview says:
(though the Fore Arc Shield special rule, also applicable to all Klingon ships) so it not a universal ability.
I would have expected to have at least seen the bolt (and carronade for the empires that can use that mode) on the table, since they are the alternate options allowed in both Federation Commander and Starmada; but if they are out, they are out. (Well, we won't know about the carronade for a while yet, it seems.)
It is interesting how the classic "oblique" shots have adapted, after a fashion, to the new game system. In the hex-based games, Klingon-built hulls tend to have good volleys they can fire out of the forward 60* port and starboard arcs; where the fore- and side/aft-mounted weapons overlap (as opposed to the 90* angles Fed arcs tend to work with). Here, it looks like you can try to line up the port and starboard 45* arcs (where the F and L/R arcs intersect) in order to get the same effect, and still maneuver to fire from behind the more heavily protected F shield arc. This would allow Klingon ships to "saber dance" every turn, and Kestrels to be in a better position to turn off, run and/or cloak once they've launched their own strikes.
In theory, at least.
It is interesting how the classic "oblique" shots have adapted, after a fashion, to the new game system. In the hex-based games, Klingon-built hulls tend to have good volleys they can fire out of the forward 60* port and starboard arcs; where the fore- and side/aft-mounted weapons overlap (as opposed to the 90* angles Fed arcs tend to work with). Here, it looks like you can try to line up the port and starboard 45* arcs (where the F and L/R arcs intersect) in order to get the same effect, and still maneuver to fire from behind the more heavily protected F shield arc. This would allow Klingon ships to "saber dance" every turn, and Kestrels to be in a better position to turn off, run and/or cloak once they've launched their own strikes.
In theory, at least.
I'm a bit concerned about the points difference.
The KR has 18 shields and 20 hull.
The Fed CA has 24 shields and 32 hull.
Fed CAs could always take more damage than D-6/7 class hulls due to all the labs and what nots, but the difference seems a bit large, particularly as the Fed CA only costs 15 points more than the KR.
Is the cloak that big of an equalizer? Does this mean the Klingon D6 is like 130/140 points?
The KR has 18 shields and 20 hull.
The Fed CA has 24 shields and 32 hull.
Fed CAs could always take more damage than D-6/7 class hulls due to all the labs and what nots, but the difference seems a bit large, particularly as the Fed CA only costs 15 points more than the KR.
Is the cloak that big of an equalizer? Does this mean the Klingon D6 is like 130/140 points?
Ben2 said:
Disclaimer: Not all preview rules may remain the same in the released version
The cloak is good, as are the plasma torpedoes (though photons are no slouches). However, the big difference is the Turn score and Agile trait which can make a Big impact. I was going to do a comparison later of the Federation Frigate and Battle Frigate to illustrate this difference at some point...
Are there similar modifiers to break Stealth as there are in B5, e.g. bonus or penalty for range, bonus if someone else has already hit?.
The idea of "shotgunning" space is silly. Space is big, especially at the sort of ranges involved in tactical warp combat. Without a weapons lock, the chances of even hitting a target you can see, e.g. aiming manually with a cross-hair, are very low. If you can't see the target at all and are firing blind, the only way to simulate the attack would be to roll a bucket of dice, if the whole lot come up 6 then you hit something, and if there are more than one ship in the area then determine randomly which one got hit.
Rolling Stealth for every weapon makes more sense, and incidentally also takes less game time while still reducing the "all or nothing" effect of B5 style Stealth. It just means every weapon has its own targetting sensor so gets to make its own attempt to lock onto the Stealth target.
The idea of "shotgunning" space is silly. Space is big, especially at the sort of ranges involved in tactical warp combat. Without a weapons lock, the chances of even hitting a target you can see, e.g. aiming manually with a cross-hair, are very low. If you can't see the target at all and are firing blind, the only way to simulate the attack would be to roll a bucket of dice, if the whole lot come up 6 then you hit something, and if there are more than one ship in the area then determine randomly which one got hit.
Rolling Stealth for every weapon makes more sense, and incidentally also takes less game time while still reducing the "all or nothing" effect of B5 style Stealth. It just means every weapon has its own targetting sensor so gets to make its own attempt to lock onto the Stealth target.
The KR also has the special rule "So long as it has a Shields score above 0, a KR Heavy Cruiser suffering an attack from within its Fore arc will have the number of hits it sustains halved, rounding up, with the exception of any hits that penetrate the shields. These are treated as normal". That ought to count as a bit of an equaliser.Ben2 said:
The cloaking rules look good. Now I want to see the rules for the Tholian web - if they're as good as the cloaking rules then I'm adding some Tholian ships to my shopping list...
AdrianH is correct - it's not the cloak so much as the Forward Arc rule, I'd suspect. With the ability to pull a 270 degree corkscrew every turn, a KR or equivalent WILL be facing you if it choses to.
In a head-to-head pass, the 'half damage' rule means the 18 shields are effectively 36 - or 50% again the shields on a CA.
18x2 shields plus 20 hull means 56 damage to kill it the KR
24 shields plus 32 hull means 56 damage to kill the CA
The two are effectively the same - the KR's weakness is being fired upon from flank or rear, whilst the CA weakness is it takes more of its pounding on the hull - meaning more chance of disabling critical hits.
Iron Domokun said:
Yes, I meant in real terms - in effect, you move 4" sideways... unless there's something in the way, of course... I'm assuming you'd move the last 4" of your move, of course (you do move 12", don't you?)
Thinking about it, stopping after the second 90 degrees would be better - it'd allow you to move an effective 4" per 2 turns to keep the range open slightly without worrying about keeping the enemy in arc - it'll take you that long to reload the plasmas anyhow...
And I was calling it brutal in relation to the time period - I'd expect the Hawks to be better, but then their contemporaries are too (the Fed CL and NCA, for example).
I assume we're going to see more of the normal historical background text that's normal in the SFB books in the final draft? I can't imagine they'd pass up that amount of background unless it was for space reasons.
Edit: The Energy Bleed is explained in there - if you read the previous article, I think it's in there.
AdrianH said:
It might be better to assume that the phasers are sweeping, rather than pinpointing and that the beams are the size of a city block if they want to be (TOS episode with the gangsters featured a block-wide stun-setting beam), so if you know where, roughly, the target is, it would increase the chances a bit - I'd still expect the odds to be much less than 1-in-6 though, I agree. On the other hand, weren't shields dropped for cloaking before?
And yes, I severely hope that those stealth rolls are rerolled per shot, not per ship, or a lucky roll by a dreadnought could see entire ships being killed before they even decloak. I'm also hoping that there'll be a rule forbidding ships from firing on cloaked ships until they have decloaked in that scenario - having enemy ships peppering space "just in case they're attacked" is highly unlikely.
Maybe limiting firing on cloaked ships to Stealth x 12" or even Stealth x 6" (although I think the latter is a little close) range? Meaning you'd need to really close up on enemy cloaked ships to try to force them out of cloak, opening yourself up to the 6" relocation move... it'd give you a reason to actually use DDs and FFs to try to sweep the cloaked ships while keeping your heavier ships at range.
Few other things to note from the blogs:
Every 6 rolled when rolling to hit auto penatrates the shields which could make games quite random if powerful multi-hit weapons sneak through and even worse if it is within Kill Zone.
There is no mention of anything modifying stealth as in B5, but as noted its taken against hits rather than ships - it more accurate to think of it as the Dodge trait from previous editions........just renamed. or even as a Save against hits like in 40K
Also other traits like Armour will be important (ignore X hits from specific ship each round)depending on the order in which they come into play ands if you can finess them to your advantage.
Every 6 rolled when rolling to hit auto penatrates the shields which could make games quite random if powerful multi-hit weapons sneak through and even worse if it is within Kill Zone.
There is no mention of anything modifying stealth as in B5, but as noted its taken against hits rather than ships - it more accurate to think of it as the Dodge trait from previous editions........just renamed. or even as a Save against hits like in 40K
Also other traits like Armour will be important (ignore X hits from specific ship each round)depending on the order in which they come into play ands if you can finess them to your advantage.
Wouldn't armour be more logical if it ignored the first X hits from each ship, since it'd be all over the hull and (one would presume), randomly weaving/rolling just enough to stop multiple ships from pinpointing the exact same point on the hull? Or does that make the armour too strong?
I'd forgotten about the armour - that'll be interesting seeing which is better then - the War Eagle or the KR...
I'd forgotten about the armour - that'll be interesting seeing which is better then - the War Eagle or the KR...
BFalcon said:Wouldn't armour be more logical if it ignored the first X hits from each ship, since it'd be all over the hull and (one would presume), randomly weaving/rolling just enough to stop multiple ships from pinpointing the exact same point on the hull? Or does that make the armour too strong?
I'd forgotten about the armour - that'll be interesting seeing which is better then - the War Eagle or the KR...
Well whilst I was calling it dodge (it seems to be the same mechanic) - the actual stealth trait I guess represents missing the target and hitting empty space as you are firing in the wrong place.
Also you would have to state the first X hits to penetrate the shields (if there are any) and not stopped by other defences such as tractor beams, point defence phasers.
It probbaly needs a specific order of how defences work - IIRC we used to get similar issueswith adaptive armour intereactions until the order was more defined.
AdrianH said:
Shotgunning a Plasma in SFU means dividing the warhead into smaller torpedoes.
A plasma-R becomes 5 pl-Fs, a pl-M=4 pl-Fs, a pl-S=3 pl-Fs, and a pl-G=2 pl-Fs, pl-Fs may not be Shotgunned. Each pl-F from a given launcher must have a different target.
Note; the pl-M is a X-Tech advanced type plasma torpedo.
One thing to bear in mind is that the cloask as presented is not a full "hidden cloak"; if it were, it would require rules which required you to literally take the ship off the table. (The Starmada adaptation uses the hidden cloak, but is a little easier to keep track of due to the hex-based movement. Federation Commander does not use hidden cloaking, though.)
Enemy ships can still tell there is something in that general area of space, but more like the echo seen in the old "trivideo episode" which introduced the cloaking device back in the day.
One term which seems a little odd is the idea of anti-drone fire being at longer range; in SFB and FC, seeking weapon defence usually happens a lot closer to the target ship. (Or rather, there is nothing stopping players firing normally at drones or plasma torpedoes while they are still at range, but the kind of defensive fire the rule is intended to cover usually happens once the seekers are about to hit the ship, in order to maximize the amount of damage scored on each warhead.)
Enemy ships can still tell there is something in that general area of space, but more like the echo seen in the old "trivideo episode" which introduced the cloaking device back in the day.
One term which seems a little odd is the idea of anti-drone fire being at longer range; in SFB and FC, seeking weapon defence usually happens a lot closer to the target ship. (Or rather, there is nothing stopping players firing normally at drones or plasma torpedoes while they are still at range, but the kind of defensive fire the rule is intended to cover usually happens once the seekers are about to hit the ship, in order to maximize the amount of damage scored on each warhead.)
