SST Evolution games at Mongoose - first impressions

[darklord4]

I'm still thinking about the 1-reaction rule. I do like that you can have some reaction about being shot. However, I like the melee that broke out at 10". I must admit, the reaction system was what really hooked me into the system.(I've been an SST fan for sometime, but EE games are really all that's played regularly around here). The unlimited reactions really catches the chaos from the show and movie.

There are some clumsy things that I do not like about the current reaction rules that minor changes would make easier.

First, I'd keep the ready status rule about losing status once a reaction takes place. From reading these boards, it seems most people are readying and jumping some models, then jumping some later.

Second, I would have the unit react, but only those within the 10". You are already measuring to check for reaction, so just see what models can react. They should probably have the same reaction for simplicity.

Third, I would have the out of ammo markers stack on the unit instead of the individual model. You would then treat each like you would making a new FZ, losing a shooter for each one.

Fourth, any move actions must keep the moving models In Command after the move.

Fifth, this all assumes you are keeping the "unlimited" reactions. To accomodate the innovative React-to-Shooting reactions, maybe you lose as many shooters as you had damage dice? Kind of an immediate suppression to any reaction made. You then might be able to make unlimited shoot reactions as you will be racking up the Out of Ammo markers for your unit and taking damage throughout the turn limiting the overall number of shots made through shoot reactions.

Just my thoughts, though these seem to be late thoughts into a game that's due to be printed and distributed in 2 months...

 

[The_King_of_Ashes]

I hope they don't dumb down the reaction system because it is what brings people to the game. If we all wanted a dumb down game we would all continue to play 40k. Most of use play SST because 40k has become so dumb down.

When I get my exosuit army, I hope that it kills warriors in drove as 7 warrior’s equal 1 exosuit. What I am worried about is wasting my money on exosuits when it sounds like they are going to make them useless with plasma bugs.

 

[Voracioustigger]

The unlimited reactions really catches the chaos from the show and movie.

I know a lot of people are going to be saying this about the 1 reaction rule now, so let me just clear things up...

There was NEVER anything in the movie that equated to more than one reaction. The MOST any single CAP Trooper ever reacted to was MAYBE 3-4 bugs in a 10 second time span, and hey... that's still less than 1 squad. I don't remember 1 soldier shooting at a dozen bugs in a few seconds.

The one reaction rule really makes the game make more sense. When the enemy is getting more actions than you are during your own turn, there's a bit of a problem there.

 

[Belechem]

Well, think about the consequences of multiple reactions to reacting to enemy fire. Every time you'd shoot a bug player, he'd charge 6" closer. Maybe you think you can kill the warrior bugs fast enough, but imagine if that Thorny tanker gets to react each time you shoot it. That'd be pretty scary!

Also, did it really make sense before? A squad of Exosuits could fend off dozens of Warrior bugs charging them right now, and if they can't then they can jump 15" away through reactions. The change makes CC a lot more viable. However, there are some other changes to reactions that people have yet to mention, so maybe not everyone remembers all the little rules from SST:Evo... (and I'm certainly not going to mention them if they weren't stated there!)

The reaction system now makes a lot more sense and works pretty well. Just needs a bit of point rebalancing.

Oh, my prayers have been answered!

 

[tnjrp]

Was never a big fan of unlimited automatic reactions part of the mechanic, so I think this is actually a step in the right direction. It's also good to finally have troops react to being shot at -- a game mechanic feature not as common as one might think.

 

[human_target]

Well, until I get confirmation that MI gets a benefit somewhere else, I think the bugs will be enchanted about this new rule

S

 

[Greg Smith]

The MI now no longer have the drastic loss of command that they used to.

Bear in mind that the rules that we played are in development and will very likely change.

 

[The jeske]

So there goes my dream of playing with a diffrent skini leader then the general . One reaction hmm . The skinis are toasted . Two nests in the middle of deployment ,8 warriors with endless tied , plasma and two tankers . No were to run , no were to hide . So we have an auto lose with Mi now cos they have flyers and we no AA to speak of and with bugs cos we can't kill enough of them with reactions . I hope some of the rules will change .

By the way I read a lot about MI and Bug tests but not much of skinis ? Why is that?

 

[Makoto]

There was NEVER anything in the movie that equated to more than one reaction. The MOST any single CAP Trooper ever reacted to was MAYBE 3-4 bugs in a 10 second time span, and hey... that's still less than 1 squad. I don't remember 1 soldier shooting at a dozen bugs in a few seconds.

Just to clear things up - troopers react not to this or that bug, but to all the bugs approaching and fire in their direction - this way bullets not connecting with the bug they were fired upon can still incapacitate bugs from other "squads" advancing from behind (think of it as of the second or subsequent reactions).
That being said I do see that current multiple reactions are one of greater strenghts of MI, and should it be changed we (as the MI players) will simply have to adapt our tactics to it ^^

 

[Cailet]

When I get my exosuit army, I hope that it kills warriors in drove as 7 warrior’s equal 1 exosuit. What I am worried about is wasting my money on exosuits when it sounds like they are going to make them useless with plasma bugs.

I used exosuits v MI in a game. Trust me, they were plenty lethal (granted it was playtest rules but still, shatterpoint before my turn 2 is pretty damn lethal).

 

[Rob_A]

reading the sheet they gave out, I could edit better than that! Theres a lot of mistakes on it, not vital.

 

[human_target]

I'd like to see more 1 model action.
I can see a whole PAMI squad dispersing to really use the most of a battlefield.
We could use the save value as some kind of morale value for individual targets, if you roll above it you can do your actions , if you don't you can only do a reaction.
I would even go as far to say that when doing a reaction each model rolls separately, the ones that succeed do whatever they want (shoot, move, ready, charge), the ones that don't should use the beat feet special action or the screech special action.

We still need to envision the battlefield, as any model getting within 10" still triger a reaction, you have to be carefull where to disperse your troopers or bugs (or skinnies, or forth,...)

I always look at it from the MI point of view because I don't play bugs.
Never played like this before, but I'll give it a try if my mates like it.

What do you think?

s

 

[Lt. BillyC]

Thanks for this Thread! I think its been the best about this new game so far.

When I first started to read it I was like "man! I don't like that or that!" but then I reminded myself I should wait and see the final product before I pass any judgment. I'm not a fan of the pre-painted models but the rules could be good. If I don't like them I still have SST v1.0 that I am currently playing and love so time will tell.

I am curious to see how this all turns out.

 

[tneva82]

So. With 1 reaction max is there no difference anymore to squad and infinite weapons? As far as I can figure infinite weapons are same as squad weapons now. Pity.

 

[Poko]

well, i think that it's still important in cases of things like chickenhawks or CHAS's, who have infinite javelins and other pack weapons-reactiong javelin is still rather nice.

 

[tneva82]

well, i think that it's still important in cases of things like chickenhawks or CHAS's, who have infinite javelins and other pack weapons-reactiong javelin is still rather nice.

Yes but point is there seems to be no different to squad and infinite weapons. Basicly same as rename all squad weapons to infinite weapons. See what I mean?

I just find this pity. The difference between them gave them nice difference which I will miss.

 

[SickBunny]

I am of two minds of the single reaction rule...

First, I've seen it happen too often that a few arachnids manage to break through the Pami lines and going on a bloody rampage that will in the end result to a massive amoung of casulties in the mayhem, entirely gutting the enemy army in the process, which though it does appeal to my 'movie-eye' (tm), seeing a literal rampage of a few arachnids, bleeding from a score of bulletholes, their tearing limbs flailing around and basically just blindly colliding into the heart of the enemy army even as their numbers whittle down to nothing with friendly fire killing as many as they do...

The player in me disagrees to that sight..

Same with the MI making a glorious last stand on endless hordes of bugs, guns blazing until ammohoppers run dry and nothing but the sound of slides snapping at empty guns sound the passing of the brave MI...

It captured the desperation and brutality of it all... That I love...

But as a gamer... it always leads to the single mistake by the opponent that will then rule the game as its nigh impossible to claw your way back out of that deep pit of a dozen reactions that never end...

This actually in my opinion would limit the bug player more as usually the victory is done by one or two units that actually make it through the firestorm, but the reaction to shooting evens things out, and heck, maybe we will finally see a game that runs for longer than the usual 3 rounds and everyone is dead on one side....

And will make games starring two arachnid players from degenerating into something incomprehensible...

But I will still miss the savage brutality of the 10" deathzone... I would really urge Mongoose to publish a rough sketch of these new rules out to the general public so the final testing can be done out of house... I would normally not do this but when you touch the lynchpin rule of the game, you must be extracautious...

 

[The_King_of_Ashes]

It would be nice if they put a sample out with just the major changes to give every one a chance to try & comment; so they can see if they are going to ruin them self’s if this backfires before hand.

 

[Voracioustigger]

It would be nice if they put a sample out with just the major changes to give every one a chance to try & comment; so they can see if they are going to ruin them self’s if this backfires before hand.

That seems like the best way to go, but any open test really only works well to find mistakes or glitches. Having a test that requires balancing and even changing rules here and there can be dangerous if too many people are involved. You suddenly have 100 people who all have different ideas of a rule that could be changed, you have people complaining about things that got nerfed or rules that they miss, and you also have the problem of splitting your player population (Like in 40k with the Trial assault rules and vehicle rules. You had basically 2 versions of the game out and playable, so you'd play each half the time and be forced to have 2 army lists. Then SOME people only want to play the "cool" new rules and others only want to play the "real" rules).

I'm sure the open test woud work great for finding errors like the 5 man CAP trooper squad glitch in the MI army book, but for the grand scheme of the game, I think it'd just make MGP's job more difficult. A much better way to test the game is to give rules to individual gaming groups, have them write down there comments, and send back feedback.

I wouldn't worry about MGP trying to ruin themselves. They're taking all of your feedback into account in designing SST: Evo, and the whole purpose of the update is to make this a better game. This isn't GW where one person says, "Hey let's change the game however we want and who cares what our players think." MGP has been doing a great job giving us what we want, so I wouldn't be afraid.

 

[Cailet]

For the person talking about Infinite and Squad weapons. Neither exists under the playtest rules. Rather than generic Traits, each card has a set of special rules for the unit and it's weapons (like 'may only be fired once per turn and never as a reaction' for missiles and other such heavy weapons).