SST Evolution games at Mongoose - first impressions

[AlphaStrike]

First off, thanks to Matthew for opening up the doors to Mongoose Tower and allowing people to try out the new SST Evo rules. Much appreciated.

The first thing that struck me as I played through a couple of small-scale games was the change to the Reaction rules. All models in a unit can now react if an enemy model completes an action within 10" of any model in the unit. Also, all units are limited to one Reaction each turn. As soon as you start playing - particularly with MI (and maybe Skinnies) - you notice that. The bugs come streaming in and you have to decide when to use your Reaction. I can think of several instances where a flamer armed Maruader has held off quite a few bugs by contiunally reacting and mopping them up. That won't happen any more.

I have mixed feelings about this. I do think the game was skewed in favour of the MI, in an MI vs Arachnids battle. I think the rules did need adjusting. Based on the (very limited) playtests today, it seems the bugs are a lot more scary. I shall miss the valiant marauder rear-guard - it won't work so well any more.

I suspect - and Matthew said as much - that the point values need changing. A regular warrior is now a lot more dangerous. 15 points? It may need to change.

Another change is the way that hits are allocated. All dice for a Fire Zone are rolled. The highest result must be allocated to the figure at the centre of the Fire Zone. Other models in the Fire Zone must be allocated at least one hit. Any hits left over are allocated as the player sees fit.

This worked very well. It was fast and easy to understand.

Cover. This now increases a model's Target characteristic by 1 and is therefore well worth seeking on the battlefield.

These are my initial thoughts. Anyone else? :?:

 

[Alexb83]

Top notch day, and good to meet everyone as well as Matt. Hopefully I'll see more of folks in November if I can make it up for the tournament.

As for the game... well, I like the fundamentals. The one reaction only is good, and it makes you think about what you're going to do with squads rather than just pumping out bullets at anything that comes towards you mindlessly. The new cover rules and the changes to jump/hover shooting are good too, and mean that Exosuits are actually going to have to maneuver more.

Points values do need changing, especially for some units. Pathfinders were usable, but have suffered greatly from being put on small cards. Their points were the same, but their bonuses were all out the window. Having said this, I still cleaned house with them against CAP troopers in two games, without Javelins, and only with shredders and snipers to help. This being said, it was all down to dice rolling and the new reaction rules, I think.
As for the removal of the special stuff, Matt did say there is much tweaking left to do with some units (and given that only 1 card was available for Pfinders, I guess they're one of them). Hopefully the tunnel training, extended reaction and dodge save will come back in and justify their extra 10pt cost.

The most fundamental change though, was the shattered rules, and supression.

Shattering was interesting when I played the last game Skinnies Vs. MI. Predictably the skinnes wiped out many MI with shooting (speeders are v. nice - although they do need their firing arcs noting down specifically on the card) as are the Cabal. But because so few units started on the table with a raider/speeder mix, and I lost a few to reactions, I lost the game even though my raiders were yet to be revealed, simply by losing more than 3/4 of my force 'on the table'.

What I will say is that the lack of 'goals' and limited game turns (as in the old encounter matrix) could be bad. If I had gone all raiders and concealed them all, then the opponent would have had no reason to move or do anything to get me to reveal myself and take shots at him, the game would have been a stalemate. Because VP are no longer an issue, I could sit in ambush and do nothing, and he could sit outside dangerous areas and wait for me to reveal myself for an infinite no. of turns. A bit dodgy... bringing back in goal oriented play (like overrun, last stand etc.) would be good, as would a preset game length to make sure people have motivation to get engaged and win those points.

Supression was good. In fact great, although MI will struggle to satturate swarms with fire, I think, because 6 inches doesn't cover many bugs. Cover and LOS have been greatly refined and are much more clear in what they do.

Anything else....?

Uhm, the new models look great, I think. I really liked the speeders, and even got a chance to play with the studio models, very nice.

All in all, the new system is promising. It took a bit of hashing out exactly how to play, and we even picked up a few things on the day that didn't seem right. However, if points balance out a bit better and a few creases get ironed out I'm very hopeful for the future of the game. From the point of view of someone who's been spoiled with the advanced nature of SST atm, I think it's a short step back to the out of the box small rules cards. But when the advanced rules for SST Evo come out I'll be very happy, I'm sure.

 

[lastbesthope]

Well I had a good time at the Evo day, I'll need to run some numbers for artillery deviation stats for Matthew, I need to keep my freak boy rep after all :lol:

I can see myself getting into this once the prepaints come out.

LBH

 

[Alexb83]

I'm going to bring a tape recorder with me next time to get quotes... best one of the evening, simply:

"Freak Boy!"

 

[lastbesthope]

I'm going to bring a tape recorder with me next time to get quotes... best one of the evening, simply:

"Freak Boy!"

Nononononono... you missed the best one of the evening in the pub later.

Not repeatable on the forums, but let's just say Reborn has a certain blase attitude towards certain things. Though the quote was from me. Cailet knows the one I mean.

LBH

 

[Makoto]

Only 1 reaction?? Hah... Gone will be the days of setting a couple of squads and watching bugs go down... Then again things like todays firefry charges will be over aswell.
Oh well, one will just have to think harder now ^^
Suppresion rules sound very interesting too ^^

 

[Low Roller 1-1]

Thanks to Matthew for the day - great stuff nice to see some old friends, make some new ones and play some toy soldiers :lol:

Game play:

Reactions, in the past my MI have relied on reaction fire to keep the bugs at bay and it has lead to some very exciting games with the M I falling back and firing. So going down the one reaction is a bit of a shock.
But the whole squad get to react. so the MI lose out a bit.

Artillery - new deviation rules a little too accuarte in the game I played aginst a Plasma Bug two shots two hits my 1000pts MI force gone.

Shattered is an interesting new rule a bit harsh at times.

Game play was fast some games were very fast Skinnies vs MI was 1 turn.

 

[Alexb83]

yes, that skinnies vs. MI was very quick. it would've been 1 turn either way, I think - had I revealed the raiders and used them, I think the MI would've lost two CAP squads in one round of shooting, and two CAP squads doesn't seem quite points equal to a squad of raiders, a 4 skinnie cabal, and a light and heavy raider... balance issues with the points?

Again, shattered is good, but it also has drawbacks - all games will be played to annihilate, you wont have any impetus to move into the opponents' deployment zone for points, and you wont be watching turns. You'll be focusing on combat for combats' sake, and not aiming at objectives. Matt did mention that the tactics matrix might make a comeback but it did seem a bit lacking.

Also, the fact that units are very basic out of the box somewhat limits them to smaller points games, IMO. Today we could take pathfinder squads, but not officers or NCOs, no neodogs, no javelin pfinders with reavers, and so on. I've no doubt they will appear, but I think that when units are released it would be a good idea to release all of the options for a fully supported platoon at once (say, CAP lieutenant, squad, and heavies simultaneously) to allow for more 'complete' forces.

 

[Greg Smith]

I played two games against Dropchief.

Bugs are pretty much immune to suppresion. The Plasma was nasty although we did used a revised deviation.

Tunneling is now essentially free, though the shattering rule can make it dangerous to have too many bugs underground.

But it is still the same game. MI jump and fire Moritas, warrior bugs flinch and die but still keep coming. The Chas races around blowing stuff up. The brain sits at the bag and gives extra actions. Moritas are 2d6, warrior bugs are piercing, MI squads have Javelins and Triple Thuds.

It is interesting that the rules have been pared down but then the nitty-gritty fits on the back of the unit card. So the rules for shooting, targets and kills are in the rules but piercing, multi-hit etc are all included on the cards.

 

[mthomason]

It is interesting that the rules have been pared down but then the nitty-gritty fits on the back of the unit card. So the rules for shooting, targets and kills are in the rules but piercing, multi-hit etc are all included on the cards.

Oh, thank **** I can finally talk about this

I'm so glad all those arcane little "LZ (Stream)" and "Piercing/1" things are gone, and you're right - it's still all in there, but the way it's presented is so much easier to use. The amount of the rules you have to learn is reduced to something anyone (even me) can carry in their head after reading the rules sheet a couple of times, while not losing any of the detail as the more complex stuff is right there in front of you on the unit card. It's easier to play, while still being pretty much the same game.

 

[lastbesthope]

Yeah, even I understood the rules.

What do you mean I don't have Beam weapons on my Morita, and those Shadow ships sure look funny :lol:

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

They aren't Shadow ships!

 

[lastbesthope]

They aren't Shadow ships!

They're not, that would explain the rather garish paint jobs, but why can't I open a jump point on them :?:

LBH

 

[Reborn]

let's just say Reborn has a certain blase attitude towards certain things.

If it doesn't affect you, live and let live! It's better just for us all to get along! If you chose to do that then it would be really none of my business because it has no effect on me what so ever. I'll edit this post when I can think of a suitable analogy.

 

[lastbesthope]

Please don't I suggest we let it lie from here on in and try to forget I said it

LBH

 

[Cailet]

Cailet knows the one I mean.

LBH

:twisted:

Yes, yes I do.

Personally I found Bugs to be VERY powerful. Mostly because I took a Plasma Bug both times and the nature of the scatter rules (even with the fix we tried in game 2) meant that the MI were slaughtered in droves 4 times from 5 shots.

All 3 games I played were settled by brutal firepower, generally within 2 turns. My Warrior and Guard bugs ended up as nuke-bait, my Tanker survived but was innefective because it never got into firing range (because the Plasma was THAT obscenely poweful).

In the third game, I was using Grizzlies against MI and again their firepower decided it. I think in that case that good use of the cover rules would have blunted the attack somewhat but the table we used didn;t have a lot of cover to use.

The actual base ruleset I quite like. It puts far more emphasis on use of cover and firepower than before IMO but that's not a necessarily bad thing.The shatterpoint system feels unfluffy for bugs especially but I assume that will be replaced in the rulebook. For two sides of A3 it's a solid and pretty intuitive system.

The cards were also dead useful. Warmachine uses them very effectively and it's a system I'm glad to see Mongoose making use of. It makes it a lot quicker to make sure of what you're doing (though the Tough rule caused a little confusion when I looked at the BF:E stuff after the SST:E stuff, one of them should have a name-change along the line).

 

[bunkerboi]

Well so far I'm liking most of what you guys have commented on (except for the price of course!). Did Matt mention how much more he wants to tweak the rules or is this pretty close to final? :?:

 

[darklord4]

Can someone give a quick breakdown of the shattering point and suppression rules? I saw these in the BFE write up in S&P as well as postings in here.

Please do not break any non-disclosure stuff, but a quick description would be nice.

 

[Megatron]

Can someone give a quick breakdown of the shattering point and suppression rules? I saw these in the BFE write up in S&P as well as postings in here.

Please do not break any non-disclosure stuff, but a quick description would be nice.

I would assume supression is like pinning people. Perhaps shattering is like breaking the enemy's morale.

 

[Voracioustigger]

Suppression is basically pinning people and Shattering is the new generic victory condition (though don't start thinking that it will be the ONLY victory condition)

I hear a lot of you saying that shattering is harsh, but it's there to prevent a number of cheap tactics that are currently in the game, like holding units in reserve until the last turn of the game.

Also, I'm glad all of you had problems with the plasma bug's deviation. I've been saying the same thing for a while, so I'm sure we'll work on some good changes.

Glad to hear it was fun!