Spacecraft Ops

[rust]

Ah, so Colonist (Altiplano) 0!

Yep, it is what a someone intending to become a colonist on
Altiplano (or another specific planet) could learn at a training
camp preparing him for the life on that planet, plus the gene-
ral experience he would gain from living there for a while -
things like how to erect a habitat module of the type used on
the planet (Mechanic), how to harvest vegetables from the
hydroponics used on the planet (Trade), perhaps also how to
treat mild cases of typical local diseases (Medic), and so on.
Most of that knowledge and those skills would be useless on
another planet where the colony uses different equipment in
a different environment.

To get back to Spacecraft Ops, it is the equivalent of the know-
ledge and basic skills the member of the crew of a specific ship
might gain through being told by and watching the more expe-
rienced crew members. He may know where to hit the ship's old
cargo droid with a hammer when its tracks jam, how to override
the ship's computer when it locks a door because of a false alarm,
or what to do when there is dirt in the ship's water pump - but he
could be quite helpless in similar situations on any other ship.

 

[BP]

Ah, well, that might be a reason for extra levels... Senior Crew Chief Dan Obenhauser III with Spacecraft Ops (ISS Goner) 2!

I'd expect familiarity to provide a lot better than ~ 60% success rate on the Routine task of hammering old-metal-head back into motion

Joking aside, that could actually work for campaigns - giving the Han Solo level familiarity with an old bucket of bolts...

 

[Fovean]

And are there any ideas for other related skills packages?

It might be interesting to give non-Spacers something similar, like Dirtsider-0 : Drive, Computer, Comms, Admin, Legal, Carouse

or some such.

I remember a comment somewhere about a group of PCs having to deal with a bunch of red tape and none of them had Admin so they were stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare. Fun for a while but I guess it ultimately became frustrating for the players. So in the spirit of common sense, there could be use for a non-Spacer skill-0 package I think.

TL would also play a part, opening up Flyer, Animals, Watercraft, what have you.

 

[Vargrz]

No rule system is perfect.

I also understand that the level 0 grouped skills are appealing, but I still think they could unbalance play.

:idea: If the gaming group is small, just expand the starting skills from their origin planet and their first career to what makes sense for the character.

Doing this does not involve building packaged skill groups, or altering the rules (which I think are really great) in any major way. All you are doing is slipping a few extra skills to characters at the start of character creation.

 

[BP]

Yep - no rules are perfect - hence looking to address an unbalance in a way that makes sense for character background, yet with minimal rule changes.

The only thing that is 'unbalanced' in what I am doing is the count of level-0 skills obtained in chargen - and, because of duplicates that occur, that is already a quite variable thing in my experience (between homeworld, career and career changes). With the random nature of chargen (the method I overall prefer), I find I have to make older characters, with more skills than I actually want and more than minimum proficiency, in order to get the minimum skills for spacecraft operations.

I'm not suggesting any official rule changes - just sharing a house mod and getting input that has been useful in making it work for MTU. Adding spacecraft skills to homeworld skills seems a bit of a stretch. The package skills and connection skills from the rules provide a higher degree of skill than is really needed and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, doesn't always cover things enough.

The unskilled -3 DM is quite sound for providing roleplay challenges - but needs to be balanced against setting necessities. A pilot has to be able to 'see' where they are going and communicate with other ships and traffic control - by the RAW these are Comm and Sensor skills, but I'm not gonna apply an unskilled penalty just because the rules (which I think are quite good overall) neglected to account for this particular facet. Not to mention, IMTU, a pilot can control acceleration, which means the M-Drive via the computer. On the other hand, I don't want to just give everyone Comm and Sensor skill, or even Computer-0 in a high TL setting, unless it fits their character history.

 

[rust]

In my view the rules have to fit the intended setting and
campaign, and when the setting and campaign can benefit
from a modification of the rules, I will modify them instead
of letting the rules get in the way of my game - because in
the end I want to have fun by playing a specific situation or
story I consider interesting, not by adhering to a given set
of rules. :wink:

 

[Hopeless]

You could also just rule that they have Spacecraft Ops at +0 but every +1 beyond this must be in a speciality such as Pilot, Astrogation, Engineering, etc... however since it relates to operations on a spaceship it doesn't work onworld since the principles aren't the same.

You might not be able to access a computer onworld since it doesn't have the same applications needed for a spaceship whether for security purposes or they don't have the same restrictions a ship in space would have where a door opened doesn't result in being exposed to a vacuum (exclude the ones where they're on a world with an unbreathable environment!).

 

[BP]

As I defined it for my use, Spacecraft Ops is a level 0 only skill (i.e., no Spacecraft Ops 1+) and I mean for the skill set to mostly apply to spacecraft (though Traveller generally assumes commonality between spacecraft systems and other systems)... anything higher is the normal skill or specialty, implying more intense training and experience that covers areas outside spacecraft.

Per the RAW, Comm, Sensor, Mechanic and Engineer as well as Computer all apply outside just spacecraft use. I considered having Spacecraft Ops focus those skills on spacecraft by having all the skills as specialties under it, but that is quite a drastic change to the rules. Its simpler to assume a commonality between ship systems and all other systems such as vehicles, ground facilities, etc.

My Traveller adventures are ship-centric, for other types it may be convenient to have Soldier, Spy, Playboy, etc. category skills. Even tailoring skills to a specific ship, cultural region, etc. might work very well in other settings. rust seems to make very good and extended use of this concept.

 

[Gee4orce]

Another idea, which I think is the same as the one Rust put forward: each term in a service, instead of rolling for a skill, you may instead choose to gain a level in a skill named Professionservice branch), to a maximum level of 3. This works exactly like the Jack Of Trades skill, except it only applies to skills that are available to that service branch - and only the ones from the 'Service Skills' and 'Specialistbranch)' columns of the table. The Advanced Education and Officer skills require specific training.

For instance, if I join the Navy Flight branch, instead of rolling for a skill I can choose to gain Profession:Navy(Flight)-1. This lets me make unskilled rolls as -3 + 1 = -2 for the skills pilot, flyer, gunner, astrogation, Zero-G, Vacc Suit, Mechanic, Gun Combat

 

[BP]

That's an interesting one Gee4orce (doesn't sound like what rust referred to).

Gives the option to obtain level 0 in more skills rather than level 1 increments in fewer - a nice trade off that might appeal to players. Fits with the unskilled offset concept I've toyed with for on the job style skill acquisition (reducing unskilled DM based on use) to encourage players to attempt things their PCs aren't likely to succeed at.

 

[Scott Kalkwarf]

Let me see if I can ctribute something to this.

I just use the system as is. The Caracters that have space experience/familiarity can try unskilled tasks abord space/starcraft. People who have no clue or familiarity realy can not do much other then mess things up or get themselves or others killed or hurt. This also applies to other skills in certain situations. For instance unskilled medical..... in a first aid situation they would get the -3 bonus becuase allot of people at one time or another would have at least had some class or such on it, they may not have skill in it but they could try. The same person removing a bullet from some one or trying brain surgery will most likely kill the poor victim unless they were very very very lucky.

So basically they can try to use or operate the ship or ships systems they do not have any fromal training or skill in but at a -3, where as a passanger from a primitive world who has never been on a ship will most likely have no chance to successfull do it and may even make things worse.

Make any sence?
:?

 

[phavoc]

I think in general it would be ok.. just so long as the PC didn't try to push it too far.

"Push green button to jump" - check!
Plot course for a high-speed run through a very dense asteroid field - fail!

Follow emergency procedures to shut down fusion reactor (posted on a sticky next to the controls) - check!
Repair battle-damaged fusion reactor with duct tape, the sleeves off a old spacesuit, some wire and toenail clippers - fail! (unless MacGyver is there).

On small ships crew members are going to know basic operations of most stations. But its going to be rare that they are able to fulfill the functions of everything well, especially at a 0 skill level.

Think of how people today have yachts and such. They can pilot them, read the radar screen, etc. But they don't have a clue about how to re-wire the electrical system, repair the engines, etc. Other people with specialized skills are going to.

Now, if you took your Space Ops - 0 skill and paired it up with say a 'smart' tablet like computer that is loaded with the specs of the ship, then a person might be able to follow the instructions and imagery loaded into it to do more difficult chores.

I think it's best to play it by ear.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I'm not sure that an unskilled person could follow a checklist to shut down a nuclear reactor. I used to run those and it took weeks of hands-on training to figure out where all the valves were.

Here is a (madeup) checklist to shut down the Reactor in an emergency:

1. Scram the Reactor.
2. Shut the Main Steam Valves (MS-1 and MS-2)
3. Fully open the Main Cooling Valves (SW-1 and SW-2)
4. Switch the Main Cooling Pumps to Fast Speed
5. Place the Main Steam Turbine in Standby
6. Rig the compartment for General Emergency (a separate check list with 20 steps)
7. Complete the normal procedure for a normal reactor shutdown (see Section 323.32.4.1a)

OK, Mr. Unskilled, quick where in this 50Dton Engine room are MS1 and MS2 Controls? Where are SW1 and SW2? BTW they are not together and they are not on the same levels. The Switches for the Main Cooling Pumps? HOW do you place that Main Steam Turbine (its about 20Dtons in size) in standby? Rigging the compartment for General Emergency takes about 5 minutes if you run and you know exactly where everything is.

GO!

HOWEVER, if you have worked on a starship for a Term and have ANY Engineer or Mechanic skill, I would grant that you can do that procedure, with the Unskilled DM.

Skill plus Familiarity.

OH, and I forgot to tell you that every Drive Letter is different and so are all the PP letters. Modular Yes, Identical NO, although here I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BP]

The rules have the -3 DM to cover untrained skill checks. Untrained doesn't mean totally unaware or unfamiliar, though that might be the case. The Ref can use the Difficulty DMs for most of the examples above - to cover TL differences, not to mention harder tasks.

My intent behind SpaceCraft Ops is that people in those careers/specialties would be trained in such related systems due to the risky nature of spacecraft and as it makes little sense for a Pilot to be unfamiliar with basic Comm, Sensor and Computer use, not to mention how to 'operate' the engines and power plant - much like an airline pilot. They have basic knowledge of how the engine works and inflight troubleshooting. Repair and maintenance would be another story, but Level-0 skill rules reflect a fair chance of failure even on Routine tasks.

RAW defines Level-0 as 'has little experience' and 'avoids penalty for being untrained'. Most crew positions would not be manned by Level-0 crew. Does anybody normally man their Traveller ships with Level-0 crew?

(Maybe on the Good Ship Rots-Of-Luk! )

 

[renski]

I prefer the rules as they are. If there is a simple task you think the someone who doesnt have any training in use the routine (+2) and easy (+4) modifiers. Remember players can also make things easier by spending more time.

For example, Doug who does not have any sensors training wishes to scan the system they've just entered for planets. I reckon finding a planet should not be that difficult, and so I rule it's a routine (+2) Education+Sensors roll. I also think that checking the system for planets should take about half an hour, or 10-60 minutes (1d6 x 10 minutes). Doug, being pretty inept at using sensors decides he's going to spend extra time on it to make sure he doesnt miss anything. Rather than spending 1d6x10 minutes, he spends 1d6 hours (see time frames p50 of the core rule book). Moving up a time frame set gives him a +1.

So now we've got Doug on a -3 (Unskilled) +2 (Routine) +1 (Time Step Increase) + 1 (Doug's Edu Mod) = +1. This shows that even if a character doesn't have a skill, as long as they're not rushed they can perform routine and easy tasks with a reasonably high chance of succeeding.

That seems entirely reasonable. But the idea of Doug performing sensor locks in space combat however is laughable, and his chances of success should be low.

Renski

 

[rust]

You still need a referee's decision whether Doug can attempt that
task at all - if Doug is a barbarian from a low tech planet, he is un-
likely to even find out where the sensor controls are on a starship.

As I understand it, both BP's "Spacecraft Ops" and my "Colonist 0"
are basically ways to determine which tasks an otherwise untrained
character with a specific background can attempt at all with a reaso-
nable chance of success. Whether one then handles the familiarity
with those tasks as a Level 0 skill or with difficulty steps (or what-
ever) is more or less a matter of taste, for me using Level 0 seems
easier to use than other methods.

 

[BP]

Well, I actually presume some training as part of a career - though that training could be informal.

But I agree - no task check if there is no reasonable chance a character would have any knowledge of a particular tech. Someone who had watched holo flics about spaceship operations, is intelligent and takes their time, should have a chance ala renski's example. Actually, 'sensor equipment does not require a skill check to use' (pg 57/58) according to the RAW (i hadn't cottoned to that before). Which seems a bit out of wack considering Comms and Computers don't have this same disclaimer (though Computer 0 is a homeworld option for TL 12+) . The book also doesn't state a difficulty or time for the Edu-based combat sensor lock (pg 150) - and each turn is 6 minutes. If IYTU, sensor lock is performed by selecting the big SENSOR LOCK icon that appears beside any object that is selected... well, YMMV.

Rules As Written

• 'If a character has no level in a skill, the he is untrained and will suffer a -3 Dice Modifier when trying to use that skill' - pg 6
  'Comms... Requesting landing privileges at a starport: Education, 1-6 minutes, Routine /(+2).' - pg 53

As Pilot skill has no automatic level in Comms skill, by these definitions a trained pilot is not trained in requesting landing privileges. Though, there is no precedence I recall in the rulebooks, I as a Ref can decide that a particular Comms task is also a Pilot task. Likewise with Computer task checks, I can just say Pilot skill also counts when relevant tasks need to be performed. And, technically, this isn't really a house rule, maybe just a clarification.

However, looking at Scouts - the only place to get any Engineering skill is on the Advanced Education table. Seems rather odd for a service that is supposed to support small crewed courier, survey and exploration vessels. So, I suppose I could equate certain Engineering skills with Pilot as above with Comms. Life Support? Electronics?

Rather than attach all these things to Pilot, with the big unbalance that most will have level 1+, I choose to create a skill that incorporates all the relevant skills, but at only level-0. And to bestow training in that skill only for relevant careers or career specialties.

It addresses a desire to avoid too many skills or too high a level just to cover all the tasks in a small ship or provide some very minimal redundancy for a small party of young adventurers. Notably, it doesn't do away with the unskilled DM mechanic in any general way.

 

[rust]

However, looking at Scouts - the only place to get any Engineering skill is on the Advanced Education table. Seems rather odd for a service that is supposed to support small crewed courier, survey and exploration vessels.

This is why there are so few old x-boat pilots, a minor problem with
the life support systems, and another one buys the farm ... :shock:

 

[far-trader]

However, looking at Scouts - the only place to get any Engineering skill is on the Advanced Education table. Seems rather odd for a service that is supposed to support small crewed courier, survey and exploration vessels.

This is why there are so few old x-boat pilots, a minor problem with
the life support systems, and another one buys the farm ... :shock:

...without addressing your alternate solution BP:

Personal Development: Jack of all Trades - 'nuff said?

The only crew put in situations where they are solo will be those who exhibit the wide range of competency that will see them through any foreseeable circumstances. All X-Boat crew and most Type S crew count among these ranks. Those serving on larger ships, bases, etc. are more often experts in limited skill sets and not widely cross trained.

imo

 

[rust]

True, but this means that the career assignment description
for the Scout Courier ("You served lonely duty on the X-boat
network ...") will only become true for most people who joined
that career after a couple of terms, when they finally are lucky
enough to roll JoT or Engineering - which leads to the opposite
of my post above, now there are almost no young x-boat pilots ...