Spacecraft Ops

[Vargrz]

There have been several advocates of using the rules "as is" and I I finding their rationale to be very persuasive.

I think the key (as mentioned earlier) is the DM modifier of the task. The -3 (for untrained) reflects that standard full functioning in real time is unlikely to yield success. Therefore the idea of generalizing the skill Spaceship Operations is not realistic. As an example, the computer system could aid a non-engineer to preform an emergency shutdown on a power system. However, I think an untrained person has only a remote chance of starting up a power system in any complicated situation.

So the ultimate issue is the DM assigned for the situation.

 

[BP]

... - which leads to the opposite
of my post above, now there are almost no young x-boat pilots ...

Or a lot of lost x-boat and scout ships out there

The definition of Scout Courier specialty is certainly not consistent with Scout chargen, but definitely what I think of when it comes to the Scout career.

far trader, JoT is an appropriate (and broader) skill for Scouts, but it doesn't seem like Scouts should pick up essential skills on the odd chance or under personal development.

Vargrz, nobody suggested any errata nor changing the untrained DM.

I know my opinion on how 'realistic' it is to assume a trained Pilot is untrained in basic Comm and Computer skills, or a Scout tasked with 4 year terms on lone x-boat assignments lacks basic training for critical systems on a ship. YMMV. :wink:

 

[GypsyComet]

Rules As Written

• 'If a character has no level in a skill, the he is untrained and will suffer a -3 Dice Modifier when trying to use that skill' - pg 6
  'Comms... Requesting landing privileges at a starport: Education, 1-6 minutes, Routine /(+2).' - pg 53

As Pilot skill has no automatic level in Comms skill, by these definitions a trained pilot is not trained in requesting landing privileges. Though, there is no precedence I recall in the rulebooks, I as a Ref can decide that a particular Comms task is also a Pilot task. Likewise with Computer task checks, I can just say Pilot skill also counts when relevant tasks need to be performed. And, technically, this isn't really a house rule, maybe just a clarification.

Ah, I hadn't realized Mongoose's skill system concerned itself with the trivial stuff like that. Calling for landing instructions is not a Comms task in the same way dialing my cellphone is not a Comms task. Reaching the port by Comms with a solar flare going, a planet in the way, and from a ship that got its directional caster shot off two jumps back... THAT is a Comms task.

Landing clearance should be a Pilot task because it involves taking where you are and where you want to be and telling the field when you'll get there, all in lingo that tells the field that you aren't (or are, perhaps) in need of medical assistance, may have to crash land, or are carrying pirates as a Trojan Horse. It IS a part of the profession of Pilot. The profession of Comm Ops involves making calls the button pushers can't, field stripping and rebuilding the comm maser, using the tin foil the Captain's Beaker "acquired" last week to build that missing antenna from scratch, and recognizing that you are being jammed instead of ignored.

 

[locarno24]

Rules As Written

'If a character has no level in a skill, the he is untrained and will suffer a -3 Dice Modifier when trying to use that skill' - pg 6
'Comms... Requesting landing privileges at a starport: Education, 1-6 minutes, Routine /(+2).' - pg 53


As Pilot skill has no automatic level in Comms skill, by these definitions a trained pilot is not trained in requesting landing privileges. Though, there is no precedence I recall in the rulebooks, I as a Ref can decide that a particular Comms task is also a Pilot task. Likewise with Computer task checks, I can just say Pilot skill also counts when relevant tasks need to be performed. And, technically, this isn't really a house rule, maybe just a clarification.

Except that's not asking for landing priviliges, that's getting the tower on the other end of the radio. Which - if its a class ZZZZ starport on a Droyne world at the buttock end of nowhere who don't use imperial comms protocols and your only common language may be Aslan, may be harder than it sounds. If it's Regina Highport, if you can't manage it, believe me they'll call you.

I'm not sure that an unskilled person could follow a checklist to shut down a nuclear reactor. I used to run those and it took weeks of hands-on training to figure out where all the valves were.

Here is a (madeup) checklist to shut down the Reactor in an emergency:

1. Scram the Reactor.
2. Shut the Main Steam Valves (MS-1 and MS-2)
3. Fully open the Main Cooling Valves (SW-1 and SW-2)
4. Switch the Main Cooling Pumps to Fast Speed
5. Place the Main Steam Turbine in Standby
6. Rig the compartment for General Emergency (a separate check list with 20 steps)
7. Complete the normal procedure for a normal reactor shutdown (see Section 323.32.4.1a)

OK, Mr. Unskilled, quick where in this 50Dton Engine room are MS1 and MS2 Controls? Where are SW1 and SW2? BTW they are not together and they are not on the same levels. The Switches for the Main Cooling Pumps? HOW do you place that Main Steam Turbine (its about 20Dtons in size) in standby? Rigging the compartment for General Emergency takes about 5 minutes if you run and you know exactly where everything is.

GO!

HOWEVER, if you have worked on a starship for a Term and have ANY Engineer or Mechanic skill, I would grant that you can do that procedure, with the Unskilled DM.

Well, if you have any Engineer skill, you have Engineer/0 in any other Engineer skill, so you're not unskilled.

Equally, for what is essentially a nuclear fusion reactor qualified for private commercial sale (try selling that to the atomic energy authority today!), I strongly suspect you'll find MS1, MS2, SW1 and SW2, along with the rest of the shutdown gear, are linked up to an independently controlled and powered FIB-protected SIL-4 computer with precisely one button on it right in the middle of the control panel labeled 'press in case of bad stuff'....

 

[rust]

So the ultimate issue is the DM assigned for the situation.

Hmmm ... just take a look at the Wet Navy / Naval Aviation
career in the Mercenary supplement.

The "job description" is "You were an atmospheric pilot that
specialized in over-sea patrols and conflicts.", and the service
skills are Seafarer, Athletics, Gun Combat, Mechanic, Melee
and Heavy Weapons - a "pilot" operating in a difficult environ-
ment without Flyer skill, Navigation skill, Sensors skill and
Comms skill.

These vital skills for a pilot are available on other tables of the
career, but if you use the rules RAW, the poor "pilot" will most
probably not experience his first flight for a number of terms,
perhaps never at all. Of course, you could declare that flying an
aircraft over sea has a difficulty of "simple" and a DM of +6 and
everyone could do it untrained, but such a use of a situational
DM would kill my suspension of disbelief.

It seems much more reasonable to me to give the poor "pilot"
a Flyer-1 skill instead of one of the Service Skills, and to assu-
me that this skill covers enough of the basics of Comms, Navi-
gation and Sensors to enable the guy to fly his aircraft - becau-
se otherwise only a masochistic player would choose this career
for his character.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Could you use the Discipline skill from HG?

The martial Discipline skill covers self–control, ingrained reflexes
and training. A character with a high Discipline is adept at following
orders and procedures. In game terms, as long as the character is
in a situation covered by his training, he may reduce any negative
DM by an amount equal to his Discipline skill. This may be done a
number of times each day equal to his Discipline skill. This can only
be applied to skills that the character already has at a skill level of
1 or more.

For example, a character with Discipline 1 could reduce a DM of –2 to
–1, or a DM of –4 to –3 once a day. A character with Discipline 3 could
reduce a DM of –2 to +0, or of –4 to –1 up to three times per day.

Discipline cannot turn a negative DM into a positive DM – training
allows a character to do the right thing and ignore distractions, but
does not give him any extra competence or ability.

Using this skill, you could argue that a character who has spent time in space has been trained in the basic emergency procedures of starships could be given Discipline 1. It is in many ways a more focused version of JOT. The problem is that this skill is not used in the TMB and not used well in other books for other careers.

 

[BP]

...
Ah, I hadn't realized Mongoose's skill system concerned itself with the trivial stuff like that. Calling for landing instructions is not a Comms task in the same way dialing my cellphone is not a Comms task.

The Mongoose rules are not consistent in the level of detail they address - hopping from specifics to abstraction quite liberally as playability, setting and author require...

Knowing how to use a telephone vs a radio? Establishing a connection is not generally the same and most folks today could not just use a Ham radio, despite their advanced cell phone knowledge - not that I can't see a future setting making it basically that easy ("Computer, get me the @#$% highport...")

Depending on your setting, a Pilot is gonna have to learn the basics of using comm gear, even if a lot of it is automated - he needs to know enough theory to understand its limitations (solar and atmo interference conditions, range, light-second time delays, etc.) and enough practical knowledge not only to turn it on and get the right channels (frequency, modulation type, etc.) but know if the gear is functioning and some basic troubleshooting if it is not. In other words, Comm-0.

 

[BP]

... This can only
be applied to skills that the character already has at a skill level of
1 or more.

My read on that, is Discipline is a complementary skill - it helps using another skill to offset negative DMs such as due to situation (ex: difficulty; multi-tasking; going faster; etc.) - but doesn't offset lack of training.

Thought it was an interesting mechanic, on first read, but have never used it as it feels too mechanical to me. Discipline seems more a 'character' thing that I would roleplay and figure is already subsumed in the skill system (i.e. one needs discipline to succeed at most things, or some other characteristics be it luck, ego, persistance, or self delusion).