Space Stations V1.2

[Da Boss]

first - thanks for all the hard work - appreciated Lots of good things - esp the reduction in damage

However - a few initial thoughts:

fighter modules - agree with Greg - you get something for nothing - fighters that don't give away VP is important and yes 30 damage is not rubbish.

also a few oddities -

Narn fighter hanger is only 2HP? Should it be 3?

Pakmara can't get interceptors but 2 of their ships can - so it should be an option.

Range differentials

I would drop the Centauri Matter Cannon option and replace with a Ballsitic Torpedo option. 5AD, Range 45, DD, Precise, SL, SAP (5 HP)

Drazi - add Missile Rack option, Range 45, 5AD, SL, SAP, Precise, (4HP)

Brakiri and Abbai - add Advanced Graviton Beam range Range 40, Beam, SL, Triple Damage, 4AD, (5HP)

Drakh - increase Beam range to 36

 

[Triggy]

first - thanks for all the hard work - appreciated Lots of good things - esp the reduction in damage

No problem, this only took about six-eight hours!

fighter modules - agree with Greg - you get something for nothing - fighters that don't give away VP is important and yes 30 damage is not rubbish.

Fair play on fighters, I was only pointing out the up and downsides, increasing the hard points for hangars and advanced hangars by 1 (or even 2 for advanced hangars) is no problem.

Narn fighter hanger is only 2HP? Should it be 3?

Yeah, this should be 3.

Pakmara can't get interceptors but 2 of their ships can - so it should be an option.

Another good catch, I'll add the non-EA interceptors module to them.

Range differentials

Any in particular? Most (if not all) should be 150% of their original weapons.

I would drop the Centauri Matter Cannon option and replace with a Ballsitic Torpedo option. 5AD, Range 45, DD, Precise, SL, SAP (5 HP)

Drazi - add Missile Rack option, Range 45, 5AD, SL, SAP, Precise, (4HP)

Brakiri and Abbai - add Advanced Graviton Beam range Range 40, Beam, SL, Triple Damage, 4AD, (5HP)

Drakh - increase Beam range to 36

Is there any reason to drop the Centauri matter cannon?

I can add the weapons you suggest (including the ballistic torpedo) if others want them to - I'll balance out the AD to an appropriate number of hard points too.

Drakh neutron cannon - you're right, this range should be based on the longer-ranged version in the lists. It will be changed.

 

[Da Boss]

Jolly good


- the range thing is to make sure all races have about the same maximum range option. I think this is very important as below 30 is not really good enough for max range when some have 52". (yes I know I have always said that I don't like the very long range stuff but hey I guess thats staying...) 30" range means most ships have to come into range to fire at the station.

Centauri matter cannon - just in case you thought they had plenty of options already.

 

[Greg Smith]

Da Boss' G'Quan battle level station translates to:

Damage: 148,
Hull: 4,
Troops: 30,
Special: Anti-fighter 6, Carrier 5, Command+1, Fleet Carrier, Immobile, , Scout,
Craft: 5 Frazi flights,
Weapons

Heavy Laser Cannon....Beam,DD......4 AD............36" range......Turret...
Ion Cannon.................TL.................8 AD.............12" range.......Turret

(HP= 15)
Hardened (2)
Heavy Laser x1 (6)
Hanger (2)
Command (4)
Ion Cannon (1)

Which is somewhat better.

I'm reasonable happy with that level of damage - bearing in mind that it has hull 4. Although beams will have a harder time against it than regular weapons.

However - its turreted beams are significantly better than the G'Quan. Its fighters are more numerous and supported by Fleet Carrier that the Narn can't get elsewhere. It also gains scout and command.

Its ion cannons are less numerous, but crucially better ranged.

On the whole, somewhat better than the ship.

 

[Triggy]

There are at least downsides with that - no e-mines, fewer AD on the beam and on the ion cannons and probably most importantly, if the opponent is boresighted, he can target every turn too as you are immobile (unless the station drifts!!!). It is still debatably better in many situations but as you say, this hopefully would be a step improvement.

 

[Greg Smith]

There is also the possibilty of just putting 1HP weapons on stations - while they don't boost damage, they can still have silly amounts of AD.

Narn Way station:
20 damage
18 AD TL 12"

Centauri Battle station:
Matter cannons: 45 AD DD AP, 21" range.

There needs to be a mechanism to limit this.

 

[Da Boss]

of course it may because the G'Quon is bad (although hoping to play the new version tommorow night and see if that is still true)

Trying to abuse the system with a Raid level Centauri carrier and that is not working whihc is good!

A shadow Skirmish station with 4 flights of shaodw fighters is a better buy than 2 lots of Patrol fighters..............

Question - I presume a station with no hangers but Fleet Carrier can not recover fighters

If the Drakh capture a Space station what ahppens to any hangers on board?

 

[Da Boss]

There is also the possibilty of just putting 1HP weapons on stations - while they don't boost damage, they can still have silly amounts of AD.

Narn Way station:
20 damage
18 AD TL 12"

Centauri Battle station:
Matter cannons: 45 AD DD AP, 21" range.

There needs to be a mechanism to limit this.

how about 1 weapon per PL?

 

[Greg Smith]

We also have to consider being able to create B5:

Diplomatic station is a push:

It needs at least: 3 Hanger (9), Command (4), security (1), Interceptor (2) and pulse cannons (1 x?), and probably habitation (1 x ?)

Or around 20 HP.

The war-level battle station is a lot easier, since there are 27 HP.

 

[Triggy]

OK folks, assume Hangar Modules will cost 4HP and Advanced Hangar Modules will cost 7HP in the next version (hopefully tomorrow).

Also assume that you can take no more than two of any single weapon type for now and see how that works.

B5 would have something similar to what Greg says although the diplomatic version would only have one or two Hangar Modules and probably only one Interceptor Module. That would put the total HPs spent at 1 x Hangar [4], 1 x Command [4], 1 x Security [1], 1 x Interceptor [2], 2 x Pulse Cannon [2], 2 x Habitation [2] = 15

A bit light on firepower but three wings of seven-nine fighters is what was seen before GROPOS/after Survivors and it is a diplomatic station rather than a millitary station.

The post GROPOS version could be:

2 x Hangar [8], 1 x Command [4], 1 x Security [1], 2 x Interceptor [4], 2 x Medbay (one earlier and a second in season 3) [2], 1 x Traffic Protection [1], 1 x War Room [1], 2 x Heavy Pulse Cannon [4], 2 x Pulse Cannon [2] = 27

Bizarrely with both cases I added up what I thought they should have and they happened to come to the HPs I'd assigned :shock:

Both would be a bit light on firepower but would be solid to kill (therefore making the system hard to capture) and would support a large fleet pretty well.

 

[Greg Smith]

OK folks, assume Hangar Modules will cost 4HP and Advanced Hangar Modules will cost 7HP in the next version (hopefully tomorrow).

Simply dropping the patrol level station back to 2HP and ensuring all hangar modules that give a patrol point cost 3 and those that give a skirmish point cost 6 should be enough.

Also assume that you can take no more than two of any single weapon type for now and see how that works.

That would probably work pretty well. In fact you could probably add that restriction to virtually every module, to prevent abuse of shields, hardened modules, interceptors, etc

 

[Triggy]

OK new version up:

Triggy's Space Stations

Mostly minor corrections and additions as suggested, all changes are in green this time to help you see them. After running some numbers I saw that the Armour Module was far too good for its cost and it was already very expensive so I cut back the bonus damage score to 25%.

Fighters have gone up in price, I know Greg's point is about Patrol stations being able to afford wings but again on looking at their value relative to the stations, 4 and 7 HPs for Hangars/Advanced Hangars is closer to their worth (although again not quite perfect).

Time for some real games I think!

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Granted, this is a minor complaint, but... personally I think that pricing the hangers so that smaller stations can't afford them is a little OTT. Why feel limited to hangers carrying full wings of fighters? Having a hanger cost 2HP and only carry 2 Starfuries would still avoid the whole "Buy a Wing, Get a Space Station Free" issue, but would still allowing smaller stations to have a token fighter patrol.

 

[Da Boss]

OK new version up:

Triggy's Space Stations

Mostly minor corrections and additions as suggested, all changes are in green this time to help you see them. After running some numbers I saw that the Armour Module was far too good for its cost and it was already very expensive so I cut back the bonus damage score to 25%.

Fighters have gone up in price, I know Greg's point is about Patrol stations being able to afford wings but again on looking at their value relative to the stations, 4 and 7 HPs for Hangars/Advanced Hangars is closer to their worth (although again not quite perfect).

Time for some real games I think!

looking good

 

[Greg Smith]

One of the reasons I suggested to Matt that the patrol level stations be brought down to 2HP and that certain weapons be increased to 3HP was to make it impossible to fit 45" range missiles on patrol level stations.

A patrol level station should only be able to have the smallest weapons modules.

By returning patrol stations to 3HP you have re-enabled a bunch of weapons to be fitted that I had 'priced' beyond their reach.

 

[greenboy]

One of the reasons I suggested to Matt that the patrol level stations be brought down to 2HP and that certain weapons be increased to 3HP was to make it impossible to fit 45" range missiles on patrol level stations.

A patrol level station should only be able to have the smallest weapons modules.

By returning patrol stations to 3HP you have re-enabled a bunch of weapons to be fitted that I had 'priced' beyond their reach.

But the only small stations we see in the show are the missile defence platforms around earth and the centari blockade mines

 

[Greg Smith]

Yes. But we need to consider game balance.

Dilgar patrol level station:
Damage: 20/10/5
Troops 4
hull 4
AF2

Missile: 42" range 5AD, AP TD SL.
repairs crits automatically.

Jashakar Tae
Speed 12 2/45
Damage 14/2
Troops 2
hull 4
AF none

Missile: 24" range 2AD, AP DD SL
Bolters 10" 4AD AP DD
doesn't repair crits automatically.

The station is clearly superior to the ship in this case and will dominate a patrol level game.

 

[Triggy]

I see your point!

I think the numbers of modules, particularly at the low end need careful looking at. Patrol stations at 2HPs and Hangars/Advanced Hangars at 3/6HPs will be looked at ASAP...

I have to say the missile modules in general may well need toning down anyway! An alternative could be to keep the points as they are for fighters and patrol PL stations, raising costs on missile racks (without significantly increasing their firepower in some cases).

 

[sidewinder]

I was just wondering, in the cost for the stations, it says that its the cost of the core and the modules. But there is no cost associated with the modules, so its just the cost of the core. If you had modules, or groups of them add to the level of the station then it would make sense.

 

[Greg Smith]

I was just wondering, in the cost for the stations, it says that its the cost of the core and the modules. But there is no cost associated with the modules, so its just the cost of the core. If you had modules, or groups of them add to the level of the station then it would make sense.

It is unaltered text from an earlier version of stations, in which the modules were rated as patrol points. So buying the station and adding modules later in a campaign was feasable.