Space Stations V1.2

[SylvrDragon]

Has anyone else noticed a problem with the MedBay and Spacedock modules? Seriously, even in Triggy's system you could build a War level station and place either 9 Spacedocks, or 27 MedBays! That's 9d6 free RR, which averages 31.5, or 270 free crew! Sure you may say that what if you have to put it in a fight? But how often will a War level station be actually brought into one? We're talking about a large amount of free RR, or a massive amount of free crew. My group, seeing the potential problem here, has already placed restrictions on them.

First, both MedBays and Spacedocks are limited to 2 per full 10 hardpoints present on a station. So a battle station, under Triggy's rules, could have 2 of each and a War could have 4 of each.

Second, we limited each Strategic Target to one Battle+ level station. So you can only have 1 Battle, or 1 War, or 1 Armageddon level station. Not one of each.

I know every player has the chance to make these. But I'm concerned about a steam roller effect. One player loses a couple of battles, he ends up low on RR and can hardly afford one of these. While the winning player, who's got too much RR, buys a couple of War level stations decked out with Spacedocks and starts pumping out a free ships. This makes it even harder for the "underdog" to ever even consider making a come back. I'm not trying to punish the winners here, but winners already have enough advantages as it is in a campaign.

 

[Greg Smith]

One of the reasons why I suggested a limit of two modules of any particular type.

 

[Triggy]

One of the reasons why I suggested a limit of two modules of any particular type.

Increasingly seeming like a good idea!

 

[Grunvald]

Certain Modules should definatley be limited Narn Hardened Module and Habitat Module are two examples.

Still think that a limit upon the number of weapons a station could mount would have sorted out a lot of problems with over powered stations without the need for increasing HP values etc.

But we'll see how it goes at the mo.

 

[Grunvald]

OK given the rules a complete read through and have a couple of comments:

Shields : Mainly Shadow but can be Abbai as well, surgestting a high price for the initial base cost of the module but then a reduced rate for the additional ones.

Shadow EG:

Shield Module 6 (4) Hardpoints
Each Shield Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +5/+2/+0. It will also add the Shields 20/1D6 trait. Each further Shield Module will add +10/+1D6 to this trait.

Gaim Breeding Module :1HP
The campaign rules for replacing all crew of 1 ship, needs to be limited or an entire fleet could have their crew replaced for nothing. (admitidly it would be a fairly small fleet but you get the idea!)

Gaim Drone Mod: When caompared to the security module is more than double what you get, would recomend just reducing the station damage to 5/2/0 per module, arnt they surpossed to be crammed in to their ships like sardines in a can, so why the extra space!

ISA: give them the minbari Flyer launch bay

Minbari: Advanced Point Defence, Wording which is now obsolite ", but it will remove all Interceptors from the Core." being as their are now nolonger any INT on station cores!!!!!

Narn Hardened Mod: Surgesting a limit of how many mods taken per station core.

Pak: Interceptor mod, why oh why is it 10 INT just doesnt add up to anything the Pak have in ships etc, just doesnt make sense, give them 5 maybe but 10? But to be honest why isnt it the same as every other race that has the int module.

Raiders : Interceptor Mod. Same as Pak!

Vorlon Lightning module: based upon the 18" gun and not the 24" one, the AD has been messed around with compared to the original, how about either modifing the range or adding a secondry lighting cannon mod with modified range and AD?

Vorlon launch bay: When caompared to the hanger which is now 7HP the vorlon launch for 2HP doesnt compare for just 1 flight. Hanger is 6 flights + Carrier 6. Lauch is 1 flight for a third of the cost??? third is 2 flights!

Vree launching bay: minor spelling mistake "It will add oen "

probabley more but just happened to notice this one right at the end

If i see anything else will comment later!

 

[Triggy]

The Launch Bay Modules are not meant to be good value, they are there simply to allow any option at all on the smaller stations. Two Vorlon Fighter flights would make them a little better than the normal Hangar Module for Vorlons.

ISA - good idea on their Launch bay.

Certain wording changes - thanks.

Gaim stuff - I'll check these out.

Interceptors - I've put Interceptors 10 on all of these modules except EA who get Interceptors 5 (at half cost) to represent their greater understanding and therefore flexibility in these modules.

Shields - generally the second module is better than the first due to having to get through even more shields each time. The downside is that they take up HPs, not that they are less effective too.

Hardened modules and weapons modules (and others) - limiting their numbers is something that maybe ideally we'd prefer not to do but as you say there is room for abuse of certain modules. Limiting any player to two of any particular module is the simplest mechanism (therefore if you want more guns on a large space station, you have to take the bigger gun modules rather than many smaller ones; you also have to take modules like armoured module over multiple habitat modules).

Certain modules cost a lot to begin with but a little of that is that there should be a premium on the genuinely good stuff for each race. Abbai shields have already been made cheaper and Shadow shields should probably only really be seen on larger stations.

Vorlon Lightning Module - the balance point is almost spot on for 2AD, with 3AD making it massively overpowered at 4HP. Changing the range to 36" (basing it off of the 24" version) would probably be the best balance.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The current mix of fighter modules does seem messy though, (and has the names mixed up when you think about it). Personally, I'd redo the split to be as follows:
Launch Bay module - Fighter(s) plus increases the Carrier trait.
Hanger module - Fighter(s) only, no increase of hanger trait. Should otherwise be a cheaper way to buy fighters than the Launch Bay module.

 

[Grunvald]

The Launch Bay Modules are not meant to be good value, they are there simply to allow any option at all on the smaller stations. Two Vorlon Fighter flights would make them a little better than the normal Hangar Module for Vorlons.

i would have to disagree that the vorolon launch bay as stands is better value!

Here is compareing the 2 side by side:

Hangar Module 7 Hardpoints
Each Hangar Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +5/+2/+0. It will also add the Carrier 6 trait, and six flights of Vorlon fighters.

Launch Bay Module 2 Hardpoints
Each Hangar Module will increase the Core’s Damage by +5/+2/+0. It will add one flight of Vorlon fighters.

LBM gives you better damage increase in the longrun, but i was talking fighter flights, you loose carrier trait ok fair enough, but if you divide the HM by 3 you would get 2.33 HP for 2 flights of fighters plus damage and carrier trait!

LBM gives you damage and 1 flight of fighters!!!!

The sums just do not add up with the fighters that is all i was pointing out and still think is wrong when compared to every other race's launch bay vs hanger!

 

[Grunvald]

An inconsistancy which i have pointed out before and probabley will do again

Space stations may be deployed anywhere in a player’s deployment zone at the start of a scenario. It may never be moved or turned once in place (and you cannot ‘activate’ a space station in the Movement Phase in order to get an advantage in Initiative!).

Crit hit chart:
3 Station-Keeping Thrusters Damaged -1 Station moves adrift 1” towards nearest planet or table edge

It either moves or it doesnt and the wording implies that it doesnt move which it shoudnt, but the crit table says it has to move!!!
Surgest modifying table to weapons can only fir at half AD due to station abrupt movment and correction?


Near begining under Launching Attacks, states that weapons allways fire as turret arc, surgest adding "unless otherwise stated by weapon er Vorlon/shadow Planet killer" or something along thoese lines!


Boarding action damage:
When all defending Troops have been destroyed, roll a D6 for each attacking Troop as normal. On a 1, it succumbs to the station’s Crew or defences. On a 6, a critical hit is dealt (roll on the table above). Rolls of 2-5 are ignored result in that many points of Damage being inflicted.

Make the 6 , 6pts of damage and a crit? otherwise seems a little less powerful when compared to the result 2-5 you could only get 4+ to fire which although is anoying isnt doing that much damage to the station core!


Armour Module: not entirely convinced with a 25% reduction in core damage just for taking extra armour? if anything it would increase the damage a core would have. I know it just once but still arnt there ships in the game that have the same basic design but different hull scaore?? (off hand i cant remember)

 

[Da Boss]

couple of points - the Shadow and Vorlon Launch bays hold advanced (costly) fighters - hence the only one fighter. Idon't think abnyone else can put advanced fighters on small stations.

I was assuming the Shadow PK missiles are turret arc to represent its all round fire and because of its short range?

 

[Grunvald]

Never said that they wenrt advanced fighters but was looking at the costing divides:

Shadow: HM = 7hps - carier 4 = 4 fighters fair enough with shields!
Shadow: LBH = 2hps - 1 fighter flight, with shields!!!

Vorlon: HM = 7hps - carrier 6 = 6 fighters 3"beam precise, NO AA
Vorlon: LBH = 2hps - 1 fighter flight

Then caompare all the other races it usuall go
HM = 7hp
LBM = 2hp
and you end up with around a third of the fighter u get in the Hanger

The vorlon Launch bay just doesnt add up to being the same as everyone else!

 

[Grunvald]

Then caompare all the other races it usuall go
HM = 7hp
LBM = 2hp
and you end up with around a third of the fighter u get in the Hanger

miscallcullated it HALF not third which is what the shadow and vorlon got!

 

[Grunvald]

Give the ISA the BIO armour mod

PSI a Hanger or launch bay with Shadow Furies

And i off sick so sorry about all the posts but what else can i do apart from play games

 

[Da Boss]

Then caompare all the other races it usuall go
HM = 7hp
LBM = 2hp
and you end up with around a third of the fighter u get in the Hanger

miscallcullated it HALF not third which is what the shadow and vorlon got!

True but other people simply can't put their best fighters on small stations - the pak have same launch bay as the Shadows and Vorlons. I realise its not a choice for the above but I guess its balanced. Each of these fighters should be "worth" 2 normal fighters...............the Narn get 2 Frazis or Goriths which are not as good as 2 Thunderbolts.....

Vorlon fighters are very good (remember the AAF) and they have precise beams that out range AF.

 

[Grunvald]

I hadent noticed the Pak having the same launch bay as the Shad and Vor, and them having the same option of only "1" choice of fighter, but it a fighter with a long range admitedly!

Think the problem will occur that pplwill complain about the price difference in the HP's.

7hp's for 1mod and 2 for another with an unrelated drop in fighter flights!

Game Balance is what we are trying for yes i agree, BUT price balance is another that has to be aproached at the same time!

A surgestion is either to up the price of the Mod by 1 to 3hp's and add a fighter or just add a fighter.

For the Pak i'd say make it 2 fighters anyway, may be tough, but they not the "best" fighters in the galaxy

 

[Burger]

Why not just make the hangar a generic mod that adds one wing of any of that race's fighters? All cost 1 patrol point, so it should be equally balanced...

 

[katadder]

that would work.

 

[Grunvald]

As a point of balance issue it is probabley the best way to go!

Have a generic HP costing for Hanger and Launch Bays and for every one taken it adds 1 patrol point to the cost of the station!

Weapons are probabley balancing out with the new costing but may need a little tweaking here and there!

(Still would prefer a physical limit to how many weapons per core!)

 

[inq101]

(Still would prefer a physical limit to how many weapons per core!)

Seems to be a common theme. Maybe a limit of 2 modules of any one type unless otherwise stated in that module description. Some (e.g. EA interceptors, the weaker secondaries and hangers) should have larger allowances.

Incidentally, one of my groups asked me how to make EA's G.O.D. satellites with these rules. What do you think?

G.O.D. Sat (Battle Station)
2*Missile Rack
G.O.D. Laser (normal laser with slow loading and quad damage/extra AD)
Pulse cannons

Or

2*Heavy Laser
Missile Rack
(I know, 16 HP, 1 over the limit)

Tom

 

[Grunvald]

Race specific satellites is something that was brought up in our club campaign and rules where mainly devised by Cuthalion and added to by myself, see trial campaign rules link below.

The Satellites used in ACTA could do with being looked at as well really due to the fact that they are just VERY basic!