Deep Space and Empty Hexes

[Vormaerin]

Traveller is a game not a simulation. Leaving aside flat map vs globe type issues, we know for a fact that Traveller depicts only a small fraction of the stars in Charted Space. There are large numbers of empty hexes that are not, in fact, empty. They almost certainly have red or brown dwarfs, rogue planets, as well as other lesser objects. Traveller has traditionally made a fairly big deal about the difficulty of crossing these spaces, putting a lot of emphasis on "Mains" and the avoidance of rifts, etc.

Currently, Traveller design seems to be of two minds about these spaces. On one hand, Matt has indicated that they are fond of the idea that M-Drives are impractical in deep space. On the other hand, they keep publishing rules for exploring empty hexes and deep space.

So what is the actual design intent for deep space and empty hexes? Is this intended to be specialty vessels only with supplementary engines, whether the Deep Space Maneuvering System (blech ) or reaction drives like Heplar? Are rifts even a real thing if getting fuel in empty hexes is fairly reasonable to do? Obviously, commercial vessels probably wouldn't take the risk, but generally speaking the new empty hex rules heavily undermine existing geography and naval doctrine. If you can refuel your invading fleet in an empty hex or the deep space around a star system, flagging where gas giants and water are on the map is kind of pointless.

How do the existing deep space locations like Chandler Station function? Do they have reaction drive/DSMS tugs to go rescue ships that jumped in too far from the stations? Do only elite navigator crewed or special engine vessels actually visit them?

I like geography so applying geography to space by making deep space/empty hexes essentially off limits except for extreme specialist vessels would be fine with me. Isn't that a thing in GURPS interstellar wars?

I don't favor options that make real space travel in system less likely, so I don't want the M drive limit to cut off 1/3 of the planets. I'd be more in favor of eliminating micro Jumps, frankly.

Anyway, I am curious what folks' thoughts are on the game role of empty hexes and deep space is.

 

[Nelphine]

This is something I struggle with as well.

I like RTT world generation, but that means that every hex has 50% of having a 'normal' star generated, and 50% of having a brown dwarf (that could have a small planetary system as well) generated, which means 25% of having both, and 75% of having at least one.

But that definitely means ... very few empty gaps, and most stars are always going to be connected, which removes 'geography' as a large scale concept.

But even without that, at 50% of a normal star generation, that still ends up with far less 'rifts' or even gaps than most of charted space. So it 'feels' like as gamers, we don't want remotely as many stars as there should be.

But to me, that implies that it should be HARD to travel through empty spaces. Refuelling bases should be a nightmare to set up, and even worse to maintain - because otherwise.. its just an artificial 'star' and its no longer an empty hex, and you just plop one wherever you want.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Remember, the maps that are commercially available are basically the Travellermap. Megacorps, the Scout Service, the Navy, the different races, etc all maintain their own maps that contain far more details and more systems than exist on the Travellermap.

 

[MonsterX]

DNR has rules about finding objects in empty hexes, mainly for refueling. Extending these rules, it means that navies would be looking for these objects and finding them would be valuable. There would occasionally be battles over them. Defending navies would have to find out where they are and either get rid of them, or defend them, or at least put warning detector beacons on them. They would make great pirate bases. ARRRR! The problem is not limited to empty hexes: there will be lots of Kuiper belt objects too. We can also assume that these objects aren't that easy to find, and also aren't that common, and maybe a bit difficult to navigate to - with bad astrogation rolls leaving you far away from the station and maybe not able to find even your own refueling station - (if you put a powerful beacon on it, the enemy will find it eventually when the signal reaches their system, maybe after some months or years: probably they'd keep a low profile, even if it means a bit more danger for arriving ships). This makes it so you can drop them in when they are interesting to the game, but also not worry about their existence when they mess up what you want to do as referee.

 

[Condottiere]

Now you have a reason to do some offsystem patrolling in the exclusive economic zone, to control fissioning and prevent anyone building up artificial asteroids.

 

[Geir]

Official (well, official for me, not Mongoose) September '24 plug for the World Builders Handbook:

I've a whole section of Empty Hex rules in the Special Circumstances chapter. Of course, if you hate the 1000D limit, you'd probably want to ignore the table on page 224 that relates to it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Official (well, official for me, not Mongoose) September '24 plug for the World Builders Handbook:

I've a whole section of Empty Hex rules in the Special Circumstances chapter. Of course, if you hate the 1000D limit, you'd probably want to ignore the table on page 224 that relates to it.

I love that section of the book on empty hexs.

 

[Vormaerin]

It just seems like the two things are working at cross purposes: Let's add reasons and opportunities to travel in Empty Hexes by making it possible to find fuel and Interesting Things (tm). Let's also make it harder to travel in Empty Hexes by making actually moving in them very difficult.

Special Circumstances is full of cool stuff. But there are issues with exactly why no one has noticed the star or brown dwarf in the centuries folks have been around them, as far as Charted Space goes. Other settings, of course, don't necessarily have this problem.

 

[Geir]

But there are issues with exactly why no one has noticed the star or brown dwarf in the centuries folks have been around them, as far as Charted Space goes. Other settings, of course, don't necessarily have this problem.

Maybe the officially issued IISS hex maps are like London Underground maps: Representational. And since empty hexes are dangerous, best not to encourage people to wander there. You need the 'for members only' map.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Maybe the officially issued IISS hex maps are like London Underground maps: Representational. And since empty hexes are dangerous, best not to encourage people to wander there. You need the 'for members only' map.

This is basically how I run it. The Big Boys would know, but the Tramp Trader crowd would be using substandard maps that are only updated every few centuries. (Travellermap)

 

[Condottiere]

I bet they trade navigation data like trading cards.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Jump cassettes are for worlds on trade lanes.
The generate program is for charted worlds.

To plot a jump to a hex that is not charted - ie empty - you have to spend a long time gathering data about that empty hex to find anything of note. You can jump into that empty hex and be a light year away from anything interesting, or you may get lucky and be dragged out at the 100D limit of a brown dwarf, rogue planet, alien space station, space whale or jump kraken.

 

[Condottiere]

You do know who will be hanging around The Empty Hex?

Persons of low character and unsavoury morals.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Jump cassettes are for worlds on trade lanes.
The generate program is for charted worlds.

To plot a jump to a hex that is not charted - ie empty - you have to spend a long time gathering data about that empty hex to find anything of note. You can jump into that empty hex and be a light year away from anything interesting, or you may get lucky and be dragged out at the 100D limit of a brown dwarf, rogue planet, alien space station, space whale or jump kraken.

I don't use Jump Tapes in MTU. I assume that the map data that you have includes the Newtonian Movement data of the major objects in the system and part of making an Astrogation Check, is plotting where your target will be when you arrive there. For My games, a failed Astrogation check, provided it isn't a Crit Fail, just dumps you somewhere else in the system. (You failed your math but appeared exactly where your math said.)

 

[agentwigggles]

It just seems like the two things are working at cross purposes: Let's add reasons and opportunities to travel in Empty Hexes by making it possible to find fuel and Interesting Things (tm). Let's also make it harder to travel in Empty Hexes by making actually moving in them very difficult.

Special Circumstances is full of cool stuff. But there are issues with exactly why no one has noticed the star or brown dwarf in the centuries folks have been around them, as far as Charted Space goes. Other settings, of course, don't necessarily have this problem.

How is cross purposes?
When does needing specialized equipment to explore different enviroments, cross purposes?
Climbing Gears for mountains?! Airplanes/gravcar for areostats? Aqualung to go on a dive with my dolphin friend.
Obviously, why did you include ocean we cant freely go into the water. Depth, just feels like an artificial constriction where I am allowed to go.

 

[Geir]

Depth, just feels like an artificial constriction where I am allowed to go.

...did you work for OceanGate?
(yes, probably too soon, but I'm a little off my meds today)

 

[agentwigggles]

I'm just saying, that we had ability to go along coasts and go to other landmasses, but now, underwater is this new restrictions. I already have ships in water.

 

[Geir]

I'm just saying, that we had ability to go along coasts and go to other landmasses, but now, underwater is this new restrictions. I already have ships in water.

All ship can go underwater. Just ask the commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet. (Don't care if that's too soon).

But I got your point. I blame (lack of) medication for my snideness (red line, so apparently that's not a word, oh well).

 

[Condottiere]

All starships can transition.

In most cases, they are spat out of jump space, not necessarily at the destination they had calculated for.

The coastline would be skimming near existing gravity wells, and going into deep water would be the empty hexes.

You don't sink in an empty hex, but you might become a drifting dutchman.

 

[MasterGwydion]

All starships can transition.

In most cases, they are spat out of jump space, not necessarily at the destination they had calculated for.

The coastline would be skimming near existing gravity wells, and going into deep water would be the empty hexes.

You don't sink in an empty hex, but you might become a drifting dutchman.

This is a better analogy.