Some photon/disrupter comparisons

storeylf

Mongoose
There has been a bit of discusson both here and on the FC site about ship stats and weapon stats just recently. Seeing as it combined my love of the games, stats and programming I put together a damage simulator (for direct weapons anyway) in order to get a more accurate picture of how good the weapons are in various scenarios.

Clearly it is looking at things from a fairly idealistic point of view, and doesn't account for how people actually play, terrain usage, or ships shooting back at each other, range differences affecting who shoots in different brackets etc. Nor whether people think it does or does not 'feel' right (that is something that will always be subjective). But at least I can now say that weapon X in scenario Y averages the following.

But isn't that easy to do in your head? Up to a point yes, but this accounts for pretty much everything to do with crits affecting survivability, including escalation, repair, crew check mods, extra damage, shield crits, loss of damcon, plain old exploding at delithium 6 etc. It also means I can get better idea of just how much things like Klingon shields, shield boost, evasive, close blast doors, all hands on deck can affect different weapons.

As there has been a lot discussion on disrupters vs photons lately here are some stats for them.

Target is a kzinti NCA with 24 shield and 24 hull. It will repair either hightest level crit at the end of the turn or one with escalation if there is one (repair is one of those harder things to do - different people may have different ways of approaching this). It doesn't shoot back or move it is just a target.

First, whilst not a 1 vs 1 type of game, The stats for 1 cruiser with 4 heavy weapons being used at their respective long range over 14 turns (only showing a few of those turns). All other weapons assumed tied up defending vs drones or what ever. NB this does take account of the photon only firing every other turn whilst disrupters fire every turn even though I haven't shown every turns results.

The result shows total average damage, shield damage, hull damage and crit levels as well as kill chance. Note that these are not just what the weapon itself does, but includes crits, so for example shield damage includes the affect of shield loss from shield crits, and hull hits include extra damage from crits.

4 disrupters:
1:- 4.03 damage, 2.91 to shield, 1.12 to hull, 0.16 Crit levels taken, 0.00% kill chance
3:- 11.83 damage, 8.42 to shield, 3.40 to hull, 0.39 Crit levels taken, 0.02% kill chance
5:- 19.54 damage, 13.79 to shield, 5.75 to hull, 0.56 Crit levels taken, 0.22% kill chance
7:- 27.22 damage, 18.70 to shield, 8.52 to hull, 0.77 Crit levels taken, 0.99% kill chance
9:- 34.67 damage, 21.98 to shield, 12.68 to hull, 1.18 Crit levels taken, 4.11% kill chance
14:- 48.37 damage, 23.86 to shield, 24.51 to hull, 2.53 Crit levels taken, 75.41% kill chance

4 Photons
1:- 7.34 damage, 4.35 to shield, 2.99 to hull, 0.86 Crit levels taken, 0.44% kill chance
3:- 15.21 damage, 8.48 to shield, 6.73 to hull, 1.78 Crit levels taken, 4.60% kill chance
5:- 22.71 damage, 11.98 to shield, 10.72 to hull, 2.72 Crit levels taken, 13.46% kill chance
7:- 29.41 damage, 14.87 to shield, 14.55 to hull, 3.59 Crit levels taken, 24.79% kill chance
9:- 35.00 damage, 17.06 to shield, 17.94 to hull, 4.37 Crit levels taken, 36.84% kill chance
14:- 43.31 damage, 19.75 to shield, 23.56 to hull, 5.61 Crit levels taken, 62.73% kill chance

The photon clearly has a lead in kill rate until very late on when the Kzinti has run out of shield and hull vs the disrupter. The photon is inflicting quite a good number more crits, even after the target has repaired some, and more of its damage is hull not shields, in fact a chunk of the shield damage shown is due to shield crits not actual shield hits. On the whole though both weapons are not that different in effect over time. Just like FC the photons have the fluke factor which may kill quick, or prevent you ever getting a kill.


The effect of various defenses in this 1 vs 1 scenario? Just showing the last turn (14) here.

Disrupters vs an average 7 shield boost per turn
14:- 18.15 damage, 1.97 to shield, 16.18 to hull, 1.10 Crit levels taken, 11.96% kill chance

Disrupters vs blast doors each turn
14:- 43.32 damage, 23.93 to shield, 19.39 to hull, 3.12 Crit levels taken, 28.85% kill chance

Disrupters vs all hands on deck each turn
14:- 47.86 damage, 23.91 to shield, 23.95 to hull, 0.46 Crit levels taken, 71.75% kill chance

Disrupters vs evasive rolls, assuming average Kzinti crew, so about half attempts succeed.
14:- 43.21 damage, 22.92 to shield, 20.29 to hull, 1.76 Crit levels taken, 36.03% kill chance

At least when there are not many disrupters firing then Shield boost provides huge protection, Blast doors prevent just enough hull damage within this time frame to make a big difference, but a couple more turns will see the kill rate rocket. Evasive, even though it isn't a sure thing is again making a good difference, but again the target is generally close to dead and hasn't got long for this life. All hands in deck is clearly pointless in comparison to the others, Disrupters don't dish out the crits that need repairing.


Photons vs an avergae 7 shield boost per turn
14:- 31.45 damage, 9.79 to shield, 21.66 to hull, 5.02 Crit levels taken, 55.99% kill chance

Photons vs blast doors
14:- 39.61 damage, 20.48 to shield, 19.14 to hull, 6.48 Crit levels taken, 51.23% kill chance

Photons vs hand on deck
14:- 40.43 damage, 19.14 to shield, 21.29 to hull, 1.67 Crit levels taken, 47.12% kill chance

Photons vs evasive
14:- 38.34 damage, 16.06 to shield, 22.28 to hull, 5.22 Crit levels taken, 58.01% kill chance

The first thing that is noticeable is that few defenses make a big difference to the photons, All hands on deck is the best in this case, the amount of crits coming in makes keeping on top them the best way of stopping all the extra damage that comes in from the higher levels.


But this game is a fleet level game, multi ships firing at a target each turn are a more useful thing to look at.

So the same again, but this time with 3 ships firing 4 heavies each at long range (again I'm leaving out phasers for the time being). Also just looking at a more reasonable 5 turns.

3 disrupter ships
1:- 11.84 damage, 8.44 to shield, 3.41 to hull, 0.51 Crit levels taken, 0.00% kill chance
3:- 34.95 damage, 22.02 to shield, 12.93 to hull, 1.87 Crit levels taken, 4.31% kill chance
5:- 53.31 damage, 23.92 to shield, 29.38 to hull, 4.59 Crit levels taken, 88.61% kill chance

3 Photon ships
1:- 21.57 damage, 11.61 to shield, 9.96 to hull, 2.87 Crit levels taken, 7.72% kill chance
3:- 42.60 damage, 18.97 to shield, 23.63 to hull, 6.36 Crit levels taken, 44.10% kill chance
5:- 55.32 damage, 21.54 to shield, 33.78 to hull, 8.91 Crit levels taken, 80.89% kill chance

Photons seem to have an egde all other things being equal (which they are not of course). Ultimatley they both end up with a kill chance in the 80s but the Photons have decent chances of killing a lot earlier.


And again against various defenses?

Disrupters vs an average 7 shield boost per turn
5:- 29.02 damage, 10.98 to shield, 18.03 to hull, 2.37 Crit levels taken, 19.83% kill chance

Disrupters vs blast doors each turn
5:- 47.25 damage, 23.97 to shield, 23.27 to hull, 5.51 Crit levels taken, 47.75% kill chance

Disrupters vs all hands on deck each turn
5:- 52.09 damage, 23.94 to shield, 28.15 to hull, 1.29 Crit levels taken, 86.64% kill chance

Disrupters vs evasive rolls, assuming average Kzinti crew, so about half attempts succeed.
5:- 47.19 damage, 23.13 to shield, 24.06 to hull, 3.53 Crit levels taken, 54.72% kill chance

Again boost shield was the stand out defense, even though there were less turns for it to add up.



Photons vs an avergae 7 shield boost per turn
5:- 44.01 damage, 14.81 to shield, 29.20 to hull, 7.74 Crit levels taken, 70.73% kill chance

Photons vs blast doors
5:- 50.13 damage, 22.24 to shield, 27.89 to hull, 10.20 Crit levels taken, 65.53% kill chance

Photons vs hand on deck
5:- 52.21 damage, 21.18 to shield, 31.03 to hull, 4.54 Crit levels taken, 75.31% kill chance

Photons vs evasive
5:- 48.58 damage, 18.20 to shield, 30.38 to hull, 8.03 Crit levels taken, 73.18% kill chance

Again the Photons are not ultimately that badly affected by any defense, though hand on deck is noticably less useful.


Maybe more when I have had some dinner..

PS although I printed the results to 2 DP, don't think that they are really that accurate, this is a sim being run a few hundred thousand times, there is going to be a small amount of variance eavh time it is run.
 
OK so what about the Photon vs klingon ships and disrupter vs Feds. Well we have really already seen something akin to shooting at Feds, the shield/hull may be different, but there are no special effects. However, the klingon front shield is clearly something of interest.



So 3 Feds firing just 4 photons each at long range against a D5W (22 hull and 20 reinforced shields)

Standard
1:- 18.15 damage, 8.11 to shield, 10.04 to hull, 2.89 Crit levels taken, 9.69% kill chance
3:- 35.88 damage, 13.47 to shield, 22.42 to hull, 6.05 Crit levels taken, 45.99% kill chance
5:- 46.08 damage, 15.96 to shield, 30.13 to hull, 7.98 Crit levels taken, 77.13% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 15.04 damage, 5.21 to shield, 9.82 to hull, 2.83 Crit levels taken, 9.06% kill chance
3:- 29.79 damage, 9.06 to shield, 20.72 to hull, 5.62 Crit levels taken, 43.05% kill chance
5:- 38.74 damage, 11.28 to shield, 27.46 to hull, 7.30 Crit levels taken, 73.96% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 14.91 damage, 8.13 to shield, 6.78 to hull, 2.89 Crit levels taken, 4.52% kill chance
3:- 30.55 damage, 13.68 to shield, 16.87 to hull, 6.45 Crit levels taken, 31.12% kill chance
5:- 41.62 damage, 16.68 to shield, 24.94 to hull, 9.21 Crit levels taken, 61.78% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 17.44 damage, 7.72 to shield, 9.73 to hull, 1.73 Crit levels taken, 8.47% kill chance
3:- 32.71 damage, 12.71 to shield, 20.00 to hull, 2.95 Crit levels taken, 38.25% kill chance
5:- 42.58 damage, 15.31 to shield, 27.26 to hull, 3.89 Crit levels taken, 70.97% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 16.58 damage, 6.68 to shield, 9.90 to hull, 2.85 Crit levels taken, 9.33% kill chance
3:- 33.08 damage, 11.55 to shield, 21.53 to hull, 5.82 Crit levels taken, 44.32% kill chance
5:- 42.69 damage, 14.00 to shield, 28.69 to hull, 7.61 Crit levels taken, 75.22% kill chance


In the first couple of volleys it is slightly more likely to get leaked/crit'd to death than the Kzinti CA (due to its lower hull) but is just slightly more likely to survive over the long run, but overall the reinforced shields really made no huge difference. That is expected, if you are relying purely on photons then you don't care about shields, ships die from the leaks and crits.

What if we get closer?

Standard
1:- 21.39 damage, 11.04 to shield, 10.34 to hull, 2.96 Crit levels taken, 10.40% kill chance
3:- 43.55 damage, 17.37 to shield, 26.18 to hull, 6.95 Crit levels taken, 52.09% kill chance
5:- 58.33 damage, 18.78 to shield, 39.54 to hull, 10.28 Crit levels taken, 92.09% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 16.66 damage, 6.71 to shield, 9.95 to hull, 2.87 Crit levels taken, 9.50% kill chance
3:- 31.89 damage, 10.39 to shield, 21.50 to hull, 5.80 Crit levels taken, 44.21% kill chance
5:- 41.01 damage, 12.44 to shield, 28.57 to hull, 7.57 Crit levels taken, 74.95% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 18.05 damage, 11.05 to shield, 7.00 to hull, 2.96 Crit levels taken, 5.13% kill chance
3:- 37.68 damage, 17.64 to shield, 20.04 to hull, 7.47 Crit levels taken, 37.33% kill chance
5:- 53.33 damage, 19.35 to shield, 33.98 to hull, 12.08 Crit levels taken, 81.33% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 20.76 damage, 10.70 to shield, 10.06 to hull, 1.80 Crit levels taken, 9.24% kill chance
3:- 40.28 damage, 17.13 to shield, 23.14 to hull, 3.64 Crit levels taken, 45.48% kill chance
5:- 55.43 damage, 18.73 to shield, 36.70 to hull, 5.98 Crit levels taken, 90.34% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 19.82 damage, 9.62 to shield, 10.20 to hull, 2.93 Crit levels taken, 10.09% kill chance
3:- 39.84 damage, 15.53 to shield, 24.31 to hull, 6.49 Crit levels taken, 48.59% kill chance
5:- 52.04 damage, 17.69 to shield, 34.35 to hull, 9.00 Crit levels taken, 83.47% kill chance

Not unsuprising, you don't gain much by going closer to start with, a very slight increase in damage, if you can hang in at that range reloading (!!!) then you start to see a decent increase in effect on the 2nd and 3rd volley.


In FC the overload is what makes the photon uber scary - so overloads from 3 cruisers against the D5W.

Standard
1:- 47.09 damage, 17.42 to shield, 29.66 to hull, 7.78 Crit levels taken, 49.62% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 38.41 damage, 17.43 to shield, 20.98 to hull, 7.78 Crit levels taken, 34.37% kill chance

Well if you can ever pull off the squadron of overloads that is one toasty D5W (that doesn't include phasers remember). I've only shown 1 turn, with an SA to reload and another to overload it may be going a bit far to suggest you'll ever get another such volley! Though just like FC you can see the sheer randomness just by looking at the way you average more hull damage than the D5W has, but still have a less than 50% chance of a kill. Blast doors is the best defense, but there is only so much pounding the doors can take.
 
Now for when we remember to switch on our Ph1s. Back to shooting at Kittens with no special shields.

Still using 3 cruisers, but assuming that both add in 6 Ph1s. This is maybe a bit unfair, the klingon D5W has 6 if he centerlines, and the Fed NCA has 8 under the same conditions. Then again the D7 only has 3 Ph1s and 2 Ph2s in the same case, and very few Kzinti even have 6 Ph1s anywhere on their ship.. But I've gone for 6ph1s as Feds are fairly heavy on them and the D5W has the agility to get them all in arc.

Also only looking at 2 turns now, so there will be one photon volley with ph1s and then just Ph1s to try and finish off.

Assuming range 15 at first, so ph1s are long range and out of killzone.

The Feds shooting Pussies..
Standard
1:- 34.7 damage, 18.8 to shield, 15.9 to hull, 4.5 Crit levels taken, 18.4% kill chance
2:- 48.0 damage, 22.8 to shield, 25.2 to hull, 6.8 Crit levels taken, 49.7% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 29.6 damage, 14.6 to shield, 15.0 to hull, 4.2 Crit levels taken, 16.5% kill chance
2:- 36.1 damage, 16.6 to shield, 19.5 to hull, 5.3 Crit levels taken, 31.6% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 29.6 damage, 18.8 to shield, 10.8 to hull, 4.5 Crit levels taken, 9.3% kill chance
2:- 41.9 damage, 23.1 to shield, 18.8 to hull, 7.3 Crit levels taken, 31.1% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 34.0 damage, 18.6 to shield, 15.4 to hull, 2.7 Crit levels taken, 16.7% kill chance
2:- 45.9 damage, 22.8 to shield, 23.1 to hull, 3.3 Crit levels taken, 43.0% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 30.2 damage, 15.1 to shield, 15.1 to hull, 4.3 Crit levels taken, 16.7% kill chance
2:- 41.7 damage, 19.9 to shield, 21.9 to hull, 5.9 Crit levels taken, 39.3% kill chance


The Klingons..
Standard
1:- 24.4 damage, 17.5 to shield, 6.8 to hull, 1.5 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 52.7 damage, 24.0 to shield, 28.8 to hull, 6.6 Crit levels taken, 65.6% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 18.5 damage, 11.7 to shield, 6.8 to hull, 1.4 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 36.9 damage, 20.6 to shield, 16.3 to hull, 3.5 Crit levels taken, 12.7% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 22.1 damage, 17.5 to shield, 4.6 to hull, 1.5 Crit levels taken, 0.0% kill chance
2:- 43.4 damage, 24.0 to shield, 19.4 to hull, 6.6 Crit levels taken, 24.5% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 24.2 damage, 17.4 to shield, 6.8 to hull, 0.7 Crit levels taken, 0.1% kill chance
2:- 50.6 damage, 24.0 to shield, 26.7 to hull, 2.8 Crit levels taken, 60.3% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 21.1 damage, 14.3 to shield, 6.8 to hull, 1.5 Crit levels taken, 0.1% kill chance
2:- 44.1 damage, 22.8 to shield, 21.3 to hull, 4.7 Crit levels taken, 32.9% kill chance


Some interesting numbers, the Feds have semi decent chances of kills in one go, unlike the klingons who can forget any such idea. On the other hand the Klingons kill those not trying to counter quite well on turn 2 with another blast of Disr and Ph1s. But again the are screwed by that boost shield action, whereas again the Photons are almost impossible to defend against properly.


If both get up close and personal, short range and killzones.

Feds...
Standard
1:- 75.1 damage, 24.0 to shield, 51.1 to hull, 12.9 Crit levels taken, 91.4% kill chance
2:- 80.2 damage, 24.0 to shield, 56.2 to hull, 14.1 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 64.2 damage, 23.8 to shield, 40.3 to hull, 10.5 Crit levels taken, 75.0% kill chance
2:- 75.1 damage, 23.9 to shield, 51.1 to hull, 13.1 Crit levels taken, 99.9% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 60.4 damage, 24.0 to shield, 36.4 to hull, 12.9 Crit levels taken, 71.6% kill chance
2:- 75.0 damage, 24.0 to shield, 51.0 to hull, 16.9 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 73.8 damage, 24.0 to shield, 49.8 to hull, 9.9 Crit levels taken, 90.7% kill chance
2:- 78.6 damage, 24.0 to shield, 54.6 to hull, 10.7 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 63.4 damage, 23.5 to shield, 39.9 to hull, 10.3 Crit levels taken, 70.0% kill chance
2:- 78.8 damage, 23.9 to shield, 54.9 to hull, 13.8 Crit levels taken, 99.8% kill chance


Klingon...
Standard
1:- 52.0 damage, 24.0 to shield, 28.0 to hull, 7.1 Crit levels taken, 63.9% kill chance
2:- 82.7 damage, 24.0 to shield, 58.7 to hull, 13.3 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 43.3 damage, 23.7 to shield, 19.6 to hull, 5.0 Crit levels taken, 25.3% kill chance
2:- 95.7 damage, 24.0 to shield, 71.7 to hull, 16.0 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 42.8 damage, 24.0 to shield, 18.9 to hull, 7.1 Crit levels taken, 21.9% kill chance
2:- 98.1 damage, 24.0 to shield, 74.1 to hull, 20.5 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 51.1 damage, 24.0 to shield, 27.1 to hull, 3.9 Crit levels taken, 61.5% kill chance
2:- 80.5 damage, 24.0 to shield, 56.5 to hull, 9.2 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 45.2 damage, 23.5 to shield, 21.7 to hull, 5.5 Crit levels taken, 38.0% kill chance
2:- 90.7 damage, 24.0 to shield, 66.7 to hull, 14.9 Crit levels taken, 100.0% kill chance


Hardly surprising that 3 ships over 2 turns is massive overkill in killzone ranges, but we can see in that inital volley that the Feds win hands down, and again it is very hard to stop. The Klingons are way behind on that first turn, and again shield boost screws them, at least in the first turn. So does blast doors, the hull damage is just close enough to the tipping point that stopping 1/3 of it is a good defense.



There is one last set that might be useful - the Disrupters are quite possibly going to have disrupters in short range whilst at long range for Ph1s.

So 3 such ships firing at a kzinti (range 10-12)

Standard
1:- 28.2 damage, 20.8 to shield, 7.4 to hull, 1.6 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 63.5 damage, 24.0 to shield, 39.5 to hull, 8.9 Crit levels taken, 94.7% kill chance
Shield boost
1:- 22.1 damage, 15.3 to shield, 6.8 to hull, 1.5 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 45.5 damage, 23.5 to shield, 22.0 to hull, 4.9 Crit levels taken, 34.7% kill chance
Blast Doors
1:- 25.7 damage, 20.7 to shield, 5.0 to hull, 1.6 Crit levels taken, 0.1% kill chance
2:- 50.9 damage, 24.0 to shield, 26.9 to hull, 8.9 Crit levels taken, 58.5% kill chance
All Hands On Deck
1:- 28.1 damage, 20.7 to shield, 7.4 to hull, 0.7 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 60.5 damage, 24.0 to shield, 36.5 to hull, 4.3 Crit levels taken, 93.7% kill chance
Evasive
1:- 24.8 damage, 17.7 to shield, 7.1 to hull, 1.5 Crit levels taken, 0.2% kill chance
2:- 53.8 damage, 23.8 to shield, 29.9 to hull, 6.7 Crit levels taken, 66.0% kill chance

The extra bit of damage doesn't have much immediate effect in this case, but it makes a big difference on a 2nd such volley compared to long range for all weapons.
 
Of course, having just looked at the errata to check the D7s phaser arcs I just realised the Kzinti NCA had also been erratad to have a load more hull! So treat most the above as shooting at a random ship with 24 hull and 24 normal shields, rather than a Kzinti NCA.

Hopefully having provided the numbers for total damage, how much was shield, hull and how many crit levels were inflicted you might get an idea of how different targets fare based on their stats.
 
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