So training.. how do you do it ?

[weasel_fierce]

Reading the training rules in the core book, I always interpreted that the training is basically just to give you justification to increase a skill that did not come up during the game.

But reading Elric, it seems that the training is intended to actually provide an improvement roll.

How do you run it, and how has it worked for you ?

 

[Rurik]

Not having Elric, I've been over the Training bit in the core very carefully, and am convinced your first interpretation is correct. It has been asked here before without any official clarification.

The break down behind my reasoning that practice and research still needs improvement rolls follows:

P.94 Core Book: Improvemnt Rolls reads:

Skills and Characteristics are increased through the use of improvement rolls.

Pretty straightforward - skills are increased through improvement rolls. Not ir's and practice and research, just ir's. But it is a pretty general statement, so it is open to interpretation.

P.94 Improving Skills opens with:

A player can choose to spend one improvement roll to attempt to increase one known skill.

Again, straightforward.

P. 95 Practice and Research opens:

There are two ways to improve skills - by practice and research.

Now this section is a sub heading under Improving Skills, which opened saying you spend an ir and make a roll. It does not say that that these are in addition to spending ir's, so to me the fact is that this a part of the Improving Skills section means that this is in addition to spending the ir mentioned at the beginning of the section.

But the clincher for me follows, under Practice (p.95):

While adventuring, characters will use their skills against enemies and adversities, as well as find the time to practice specific techniques while camping or during a long voyage. As long as a character can feasibly practice their skill during an adventure, it is safe to assume they have. Many skills, especially Basic and Weapon skills, will be repeatedly practiced throughout the course of a typical RuneQuest adventure, as the characters leap over crevasses and duel deadly villians.

If Practice and Research are meant to be a way of improving skills in addition to spending improvement rolls, that passage would be saying that characters can increase their weapon and basic skills used or practiced during an adventure without spending improvement rolls - essentially the RQ2/3 experience system (plus the suggested three ir's per adventure on top of that :shock: ).

So based on the Core Rulebook I'm pretty convinced that ir's are the only way to improve skills. That being said, As a GM I can see giving some IR's for extended periods of study or practice. I think the intent of the rule is to put the rate of improvement into the GM's hand, rather than the players hands (i.e. the frivolous use of skills just to get checks, or 16 hour a day seven day a week training regimens every second of downtime, that could happen in RQ2/3).

 

[weasel_fierce]

yeah, Im a big fan of giving out a few improvement rolls in odd skills, like lores and languages that the PCs might have picked up o nthe way

 

[Ssendam]

At the risk of hashing an idea from another system, (Although not an altogether unrelated system, Call of Cthulhu), You could put a tick by each skill if it is used successfully in an adventure. At the end of the adventure you get an improvment roll ("IR").

One the one hand you would get more IR's but you wouldn't be able to stuff them all onto one skill.

Not sure if that's bad or good.

Stay Frosty

 

[RosenMcStern]

In Elric, it is clearly stated that you gain IRs for undergoing training or research. However, Loz stated in a previous thread that this could be a peculiarity of the young kingdoms.

The point here is that since training takes place between scenarios, there is about a 0% chance of contradiction between houserules when playing at conventions, where you do not use training. Since the reason why we are all trying to work out some sort of "generally accepted houserules" is not having to negotiate everything when we meet in real life, there is no need for an " "agreed" houserule here. Each GM gives the IRs he likes, and must be prepared to handle the resulting "power level" of PCs.

This said, my opinion is that playing with IRs given after adventures wouls be minimum game fun, because it takes a lot of time to advance beyond starting level. Sorcerers, above all, would become totally unsuitable as PCs since they have too many skills to increase and too few IRs to use.

 

[Da Boss]

At the risk of hashing an idea from another system, (Although not an altogether unrelated system, Call of Cthulhu), You could put a tick by each skill if it is used successfully in an adventure. At the end of the adventure you get an improvment roll ("IR").

One the one hand you would get more IR's but you wouldn't be able to stuff them all onto one skill.

Not sure if that's bad or good.

Stay Frosty

I have always found that a nice simple system with my Stormbringer hybrid system - it meant the skills actually used were more likely to increase. Also allow certain amount of time spent training - in or out of game to give a specific increase or a roll depending on the time/description etc.

 

[Deleriad]

I personally find MRQs improvement system rather screwy because it makes simple things fiddly and other things impossible. Assuming you do the book-keeping for a session at the end of a session then you have several problems based on not knowing how long your character has to deal with IRs. You might not know how long you have in game-time until the next session or you might be running a campaign with many sessions happening in a short amount of time. Alternately, you may be running a campaign where adventures are widely spaced in time and be stuck with characters who gain 3 IRs per year.

MRQ RAW means that you have to figure out what you're spending your IRs on, how long it's going to take and whether you can find a mentor. That's a lot of overhead for something which ought to at least start simply.

For the record, I give IRs for experience, training or research.
Experience is what you get for going on adventures and risking life and limb. As per RAW I give 2-4 per session and allow the players to spend them on a skill they used or increasing another skill that was relevant somehow. Can even learn a new advanced skill if the have a rationale for it. This takes essentially no downtime as they are considered to have learnt it while doing it.

Research and practice. These happen during downtime so really only happen in campaigns where downtime is a feature. The costs and time needed are as per the rules. If players wish to do this they also have to pay living costs as appropriate and are, possibly, earning no money. I routinely limit players to a maximum of the equivalent of 5 days per week in this type of activity.

 

[zozotroll]

As lightly mentioned above, check the box can lead to very strange paly sometimes. Like a fighter switching to weapon they are no to good with in the middle of a fight because "I dont have a check for that one yet" Or even switching a couple time.

I bet a lot of the folks here that played the older versions have seen just that, or even done it a time or two when you just could not meet that last requirement for runelord. That type of play even has its own name, skill check hunt.

For style of play, I like the new system better. If it is to slow, just allow more IRs, or even IRs more often. I misunderstood a line in the core book and was allowing a couple IRs after every session. And it didnt wreck the game, just let people go ahead a bit faster. I may start useing one IR at the end of every game just to keep things going. I have a younger croed playing, and three at the end may be to slow.

 

[Ssendam]

As lightly mentioned above, check the box can lead to very strange paly sometimes. Like a fighter switching to weapon they are no to good with in the middle of a fight because "I dont have a check for that one yet" Or even switching a couple time.

While I don't deny that happens, and not always for the right reasons, I wouldn't like to swop weapons in the middle of a fight, seems a bit risky. If someone wants to use a weapon they are not that good at in combat then why not? they know the risks and need a sucess to get the tick.

The tick system also encourages characters to use their other skills. In CoC you only get a tick if you succeed AND it is a relevant check, (no using your Dodge skill in the library).

I'm not crusading here, I myself am still thinking about how best to do it.

Stay Frosty

 

[Nickbergquist]

For style of play, I like the new system better. If it is to slow, just allow more IRs, or even IRs more often. I misunderstood a line in the core book and was allowing a couple IRs after every session. And it didnt wreck the game, just let people go ahead a bit faster. I may start useing one IR at the end of every game just to keep things going. I have a younger croed playing, and three at the end may be to slow.

Whattasec....what part were you misreading? I might be misreading it, too...I've been interpreting it as between 2 and 5 IRs after each play session (I consitute one story as one play session, since if I waited to the end of a story arc or campaign then improvement rolls would happen about once every three-six months). 2-5 IRs/a session seems like pretty quick advancement, but not too horrible. The guaranteed 1 point even if the IR fails off-sets the more standard BRP approach, in which you might make 8-12 IRs at the end of a session but only succeed in half of them or less.

 

[zozotroll]

There is a line in there that reads you learn something every sesion. I interpetied that to mean 3 IRs every session. But right under that in the next paragraph it states you get 3 ir per story, which can cover several sessions.

At the bottum of the page it states a game is 2-6 hours with a story covering 1-10 games.

All of this is on page 182 of the deluxe book. I certainly was gioveing out more than is proper by the rules, and PCs did go up quickly. Now I have backed it down, but not as far as the RAW states. Every group needs to find what they are comfortable with.

 

[CharlieMonster]

There are rules in the GM's book about Downtime training which doesn't use Improvement rolls it just uses time and money. Both Mentor and Student roll and get an improvement based on relative success. Or lose skill points if they fumble. I'm not sure how it happened, but it seem simple and workable, but I may have missed something!
Only Kidding!