Small Craft firmpoint or fixed mount

Howdy Condottiere, AnotherDilbert, and Moppy,

Seven of the thirteen small craft ship record sheets use the term fixed mount and two used the term firmpoint.

The fixed mount (empty) cost of MCr0.1 shown on six of the seven small craft is verified by the Mount table on MgT HG 2e p. 24.

One of the small craft has the entry of Fixed Mount (Pulse Laser) that has not cost which is an error that was identified when the HG 2e PDF was released.

Subtracting the weapon cost on the two small craft with firmpoints returns the cost of MCr0.1. MgT HG 2e p. 24 states "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret. Barbettes consume two Firmpoints."

Technically the references to fixed mounts on small craft is an incorrect label since the small craft term for a fix mount is a firmpoint.

In my opinion the seven small craft fixed mount references should be Firmpoints, but being lazy I'd change the four firmpoint entries to fixed mount to be consistant.
 
AnotherDilbert said:
Moppy said:
I do not see why you can't call that thing in the photo a turret. It's a rotating, elevating gun mount. You can put an armored box around it if you need to.
I believe the armoured housing IS the turret, or is that archaic?
In the 1890s, armoured hoods (also known as "gun houses") were added to barbettes; these rotated with the platform (hence the term "hooded barbette"). By the early 20th Century, these hoods were known as turrets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_turret

Wiki is usually good, but definitions are quite malleable: That exposed gun mount under the nose of an Apache is called the "chin turret", and the US army has "guided rockets" (their name) despite wiki's insistence that the difference between a rocket and missile, is one is guided and the other isn't.

I think the USA army formally uses the term 'weapon station' in some cases but see above, about as to what I think about their consistency with formal terms :-)
 
1. Regarding the size of turret weapon systems, they would all have to be standard so that they can be interchangeable, and certainly larger that one twelfth of a tonne, being the size of the generic missile; the missile launcher needing to be larger to contain it, and have the mechanism installed to load it from the magazine.

2. Spacecraft design tends to be at times maddening vague and ambiguous, despite what appear to be any number of opportunities to clarify it.
 
Condottiere said:
2. Spacecraft design tends to be at times maddening vague and ambiguous, despite what appear to be any number of opportunities to clarify it.
Isn't this the truth. :mrgreen:
 
Late Morning PDT Condottiere,

Condottiere said:
1. Regarding the size of turret weapon systems, they would all have to be standard so that they can be interchangeable, and certainly larger that one twelfth of a tonne, being the size of the generic missile; the missile launcher needing to be larger to contain it, and have the mechanism installed to load it from the magazine.

From CT Turret Sizes
1 d-ton Missile Racks TL 7 (Msl R) + 3 missiles per rack in turret + 1 missile reloading system per rack. Missiles weigh 50 kg which may equate to 0.5 d-tons.
1 d-ton Sandcasters TL 7 (Sand) + 3 canisters per launcher in turret + 1 canister reloading system per launcher. Canisters weigh 50 kg which may equate to 0.5 d-tons.

Oops I met 0.05 d-tons versus 0.5 d-tons

2 d-ton turret can fit up two weapons which is either a Fusion Gun TL 14 (FG) or Plasma Gun TL 11 PG.

5 d-ton barbette with one Particle Accelerator at TL 14 (PA)

3 d-ton turret with one PA at TL 15.

MT Turret Sizes
1 d-ton turrets can fit up three weapons in any combination of Msl R, BLaser, PLaser, or Sand weapon systems. MT Referee's Manual p. 17 Step 18 "Each weapon in a turret holds one missile". Looking at Step 17 I think each sandcaster in a turret holds six canisters so far that is the only number I've found.

Particle Accelerator turrets mount one weapon and the size varies depending on TL. PA Turret TL 14 is 5 d-tons, PA Turret TL 15 is 3 d-ton, PA Turret TL 16 is 2 d0tons, and PA Turret TL 81 is 1 d-ton.

2 d-ton turrets mount up to two PG, FG, or Disintegrator weapons.

TNE
3 d-ton Turret Sockets
6 d-ton Barbette Sockets
3 d-ton Missile Launcher Turret with two ready missiles the table does not list volume however IIRC volume is 7 m^3 or 0.5 d-tons from TNE FF&S.
6 d-ton missile barbette with five ready missiles the table does not list volume however IIRC volume is 7 m^3 or 0.5 d-tons
3 d-ton laser turrets no details on number installed
6 d-ton laser barbettes no details on number installed

T4 without errata
Book 1 Core Rules Quick Ship Design System
3 d-ton Standard Civilian Laser Batteries contain one weapon
3 d-ton Military Missile launcher Turret with two missiles in ready storage
6 d-ton Military Missile launcher Barbette with three missiles in ready storage
Standard Military Laser Batteries vary from 5.3 to 102.9 d-tons and contain between one and ten weapons
3 d-ton Sandcasters with eighteen to fifty canisters in ready storage depending on TL

Book 2 Standard Starship Design System
3 d-ton or 6 d-ton Turret Sockets
3 d-to Light Laser Turrets
6 d-ton Heavy Laser Turrets
3 d-ton Missile Launcher Turret with three ready missiles, each missile is 7 m^3 or 0.5 d-tons
6 d-ton Heavy Missile Launcher Turret with five ready missiles, each missile is7 m^3 or 0.5 d-tons
3 d-ton Sandcaster turrets? with sixteen to fifty canisters in ready storage I have not found the volume.

MgT HG 2e
1 d-ton turrets that can fit from 1 to four turret rated weapon systems, plus twelve/1d-ton of missiles and/or twenty/1 d-ton of canisters.
5 d-ton barbettes that appear to fit one weapon system with one exception a barbette fits five missile racks and 25/2 d-tons of missiles.

2. Spacecraft design tends to be at times maddening vague and ambiguous, despite what appear to be any number of opportunities to clarify it.

I agree that the design systems remain maddeningly vague and ambiguous regardless of how many people have offered suggestions on how to fix them.
 
You'll note a lot has been simplified. Rightly or wrongly.

I wouldn't mind a spinal mount particle accelerator scaled down by a thousand, and the suitable gun house to install it in.
 
Condottiere said:
You'll note a lot has been simplified. Rightly or wrongly.

I wouldn't mind a spinal mount particle accelerator scaled down by a thousand, and the suitable gun house to install it in.

Small craft spinal mounts don't make sense. The larger scale weaponry would be say barbette-sized to be a spinal for a sub-100ton craft.

But, in general, 'spinals' make sense once the weapon is sized that it cannot fit in a mount. And from there you scale up so that a 5,000 ton DD has a spinal, but it's damage, energy and space requirements make sense. That way you can have smaller ships maneuvering to bring their spinals to bear against similar class ships. Effectiveness should drop off pretty quickly as you look at larger tonnage ships (just as smaller class ships take even more damage).

But that may make the combat charts too complicated and make the combat more tedious than fun.
 
phavoc said:
Condottiere said:
You'll note a lot has been simplified. Rightly or wrongly.

I wouldn't mind a spinal mount particle accelerator scaled down by a thousand, and the suitable gun house to install it in.

Small craft spinal mounts don't make sense.

Why? In that you are mounting the largest possible weapon in that spaceframe.
 
phavoc said:
Small craft spinal mounts don't make sense.
When you say Spinal Weapon on a Small Craft I keep seeing a space version of the A10. A craft built around the weapon not a weapon added to a craft. :lol:

Anyway, back to the discussion. :D
 
Infojunky said:
phavoc said:
Condottiere said:
You'll note a lot has been simplified. Rightly or wrongly.

I wouldn't mind a spinal mount particle accelerator scaled down by a thousand, and the suitable gun house to install it in.

Small craft spinal mounts don't make sense.

Why? In that you are mounting the largest possible weapon in that spaceframe.

Conceptually, they generally don't fit. Spinal mounts in small craft would/should be the exception. In the real world there is a precedent (modern combat craft only), with the A-10 being essentially built around the GAU-30 avenger cannon.

Spinal weapons, by default, have the craft built around the weapon. They should require tremendous power, which small craft should/would be lacking.

Maybe it's just a semantical issue, but I just like the idea of small craft, as a general rule of thumb, having "spinal" mounts. I would be ok with heavier than normal weapons on attack craft. And for the odd one-off style craft. Just not as a general rule of thumb.
 
Morning PDT all,

The original discussion was on the subject of small craft using firmpoints or fixed mounts to install weapons. For more clarification at this late date is the use of the term fixed mount instead of firmpoint on the small craft ship record sheets on MgT HG 2e pp. 94-104, whether or not small craft firmpoints are the equivalent of hardpoints for hulls >= 100 d-tons, and if firmpoints have a cost.

From the material in MgT HG 2e p. 4 my conclusion is:

1. Small craft depending on hull size in d-tons install weapons by the use of up to three firmpoints, up to three single turrets, or in one barbette.
2. Firmpoints are the equivalent of fixed mounts, they must be designated during construction, have no space requirement, and cost Cr100,000 for each one installed.
3. Firmpoints, like fixed mounts, may install up to three weapons per firmpoint installed.
4. Firmpoints cost equals Cr100,000 plus the cost of the weapons installed and take up no space in the hull.
5. Turrets do not use firmpoints and have a total cost for a single turret and the installed weapon. Turrets require 1 d-ton of hull space
6. A barbette can be installed on small craft hulls >= 50 and <100 d-tons, requires the installation of two firmpoints for an additional Cr200,000 plus the barbette cost and requires 5 d-tons of hull space..
7. The small craft ship record sheets should be using the term firmpoint versus fixed mount.

As usual the original subject changed course after a forum member mentioned house ruling that weapons installed on small craft were in turrets and has moved to spinal mounts for small craft.

My and other replies relating to turrets and now spinal mounts have overshadowed the original subject of firmpoints versus fixed mounts.

Thank you for the replies.
 
Thats a lot of house rules.
snrdg121408 said:
From the material in MgT HG 2e p. 4 my conclusion is:

1. Small craft depending on hull size in d-tons install weapons by the use of up to three firmpoints, up to three single turrets, or in one barbette.
If a barbette uses two firmpoints, the third firmpoint can mont another turret or fixed mount.
snrdg121408 said:
2. Firmpoints are the equivalent of fixed mounts, they must be designated during construction, have no space requirement, and cost Cr100,000 for each one installed.
Firmpoints can mount turrets. It is not defined when they must be declared.
snrdg121408 said:
3. Firmpoints, like fixed mounts, may install up to three weapons per firmpoint installed.
No, this was clarified by Nerhesi. Fixed mounts on small craft can mount one weapon.
snrdg121408 said:
4. Firmpoints cost equals Cr100,000 plus the cost of the weapons installed and take up no space in the hull.
Fixed mounts do.
snrdg121408 said:
5. Turrets do not use firmpoints and have a total cost for a single turret and the installed weapon. Turrets require 1 d-ton of hull space
Small craft can mount single turrets, one on each firmpoint.
snrdg121408 said:
6. A barbette can be installed on small craft hulls >= 50 and <100 d-tons, requires the installation of two firmpoints for an additional Cr200,000 plus the barbette cost and requires 5 d-tons of hull space..
A barbette can be mounted on two firmpoints, 35 dT hulls have two firmpoints.
snrdg121408 said:
7. The small craft ship record sheets should be using the term firmpoint versus fixed mount.
You maintain that a firmpoint and a fixed mount is the same thing, then it must be irrelevant which word is used?
 
Firmpoint turrets should be significantly smaller.

As should the weapon systems, to reflect their lower power usage and snipped range.
 
Hello Another DIlbert.

Edit:

Got rid of junk missed earlier and adding a bit of information.

My method of learning the design rules is to read through then and then try recreating a sample design. I have reviewed all of the small craft designs for weapons against the rules. The result is the material I posted.

AnotherDilbert said:
Thats a lot of house rules.

These are not house rules they are the results of reviewing the material on page 23 and comparing the information shown on the, in theory, accurate small craft ship record sheets on pages 94 through 106. The details of which can be found in the posts found throughout this thread.

snrdg121408 said:
From the material in MgT HG 2e p. 4 my conclusion is:

1. Small craft depending on hull size in d-tons install weapons by the use of up to three firmpoints, up to three single turrets, or in one barbette.
If a barbette uses two firmpoints, the third firmpoint can mount another turret or fixed mount.

Yes, you are correct that on small craft hulls >70 and < 100 d-tons a third firmpoint or a single turret can be installed. My apologies for not including all of the combination that can be mounted on small craft hulls >70 and < 100 d-tons.

snrdg121408 said:
2. Firmpoints are the equivalent of fixed mounts, they must be designated during construction, have no space requirement, and cost Cr100,000 for each one installed.
Firmpoints can mount turrets. It is not defined when they must be declared.

Page 23 clearly states the following:
"Ships have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."

From page 4 a "Ship is a spacecraft of 100 tons or greater." A space craft less than 100 tons is a Small Craft per page 4. The sentence should read "Small craft have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."

"A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically facing forward, but there is not requirement for this), but can be upgraded to single (not double or triple) turret."

The correct term for a small craft fixed mount is firmpoint which means technically the annotation of Fixed Mount on the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are incorrect and should be changed to Firmpoint.

Turrets on small craft upgrade/replace firmpoints just like they replace/upgrade fixed mounts on ships, spacecraft >= 100 d-tons.

Barbettes consume two firmpoints. Barbettes are clearly stated to be mounted on firmpoints.

If the text was "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically facing forward, but there is not requirement for this), but can be upgraded to single (not double or triple) turret and consumes one firmpoint." I would agree that firmpoints can mount turrets.

The ship record sheets for the launch/Pebble p. 96 and passenger shuttle p. 106 show the standard built small craft hulls without firmpoints which are the same thing as fixed mount.

The empty Firmpoints on the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are listed with a cost of MCr0.1 on the standard built hulls.

Ship record sheets for the gig p. 94 with Single Turret, Empty, Heavy Fighter p. 102 Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser, Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack, and Troop Transport p. 104 Firmpoint, Sandcaster, Firmpoint Missile Rack are standard built small craft hulls. Deducting the weapons costs the Firmpoints have a base cost of MCr0.1

The oddball one is the light fighter p. 94 which has a Firmpoint, pulse laser without any cost which IIRC was mentioned on the High Guard is here page as needing errata.

Combining all the evidence published in MgT HG 2e small craft appear to designate the installation of firmpoints/fixed mounts and turrets during construction.

Retrofitting or upgrading hulls IIRC was pointed out as not discussed in MgT HG 2e.

snrdg121408 said:
3. Firmpoints, like fixed mounts, may install up to three weapons per firmpoint installed.
No, this was clarified by Nerhesi. Fixed mounts on small craft can mount one weapon.

Thank you for the correction, in another subject thread the discussion appeared to concluded that small craft firmpoints like fixed mounts on ships >= 100 d-tons could mount three per firmpoint.

snrdg121408 said:
4. Firmpoints cost equals Cr100,000 plus the cost of the weapons installed and take up no space in the hull.
Fixed mounts do.

From the table on p. 24

Fixed Mount: TL -, Power 0, Tons 0, Cost MCr0.1

From the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are listed with a cost of MCr0.1 on the standard built hulls.

Fixed Mounts corrected to Firmpoints Tons 0, Cost MCr0.1

From the ship record sheets for Heavy Fighter p. 102 Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser, Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack, and Troop Transport p. 104 Firmpoint, Sandcaster, Firmpoint Missile Rack.

Total Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser MCr0.6 - Beam laser cost MCr0.5 = Firmpoint #1 Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack MCr0.85 - Missile Rack cost MCr0.75 = Firmpoint #2 Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint Sandcaster MCr0.35 - Sandcaster cost MCr0.35 = Firmpoint Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint Missile Rack MCr0.85 - Missile Rack cost MCr0.75 = Firmpoint Cost of MCr0.1.

No tons for any of the small craft with firmpoints installed. Fixed mounts do not have a space requirement in tons according to p. 24.

snrdg121408 said:
5. Turrets do not use firmpoints and have a total cost for a single turret and the installed weapon. Turrets require 1 d-ton of hull space
Small craft can mount single turrets, one on each firmpoint.

Barbettes are clearly mounted on firmpoints.

Please provide the text that clearly states small craft with a turret are mounted on a "Firmpoint".

The gig ship record sheet p. 94 has an empty turret installed with the annotation of Weapons: Single Turret, Empty Tons 1 Cost MCr0.2.

An empty Firmpoint, mislabeled as fixed mount, has a cost of MCr0.1
A Firmpoint, Beam Laser has a cost of Firmpoint MCr0.1 + Beam Laser MCr0.5 = Total Cost of MCr0.6

If the gig's empty turret is mounted on a Firmpoint the Weapon annotation should be Firmpoint, Single Turret, Empty Tons 1 and cost Firmpoint MCr0.1 + Single Turret Empty MCr0.1 = Total MCr0.2

Again the information available does not show that turrets are mounted on firmpoints anymore than they are mounted on fixed mounts for hulls >= 100 d-tons.

Per p. 23 fixed mounts, turrets, barbettes, bays, and spinal mounts are mounted to Hardpoints on hulls >= 100 d-tons.


snrdg121408 said:
6. A barbette can be installed on small craft hulls >= 50 and <100 d-tons, requires the installation of two firmpoints for an additional Cr200,000 plus the barbette cost and requires 5 d-tons of hull space..
A barbette can be mounted on two firmpoints, 35 dT hulls have two firmpoints.

Oops, my bad I thought I had corrected my range and you are correct. Thank you for the catch. Okay, I'm blaming the error on Web Gremlins rather than my piss poor typing and reviewing skills.;-)

snrdg121408 said:
7. The small craft ship record sheets should be using the term firmpoint versus fixed mount.
You maintain that a firmpoint and a fixed mount is the same thing, then it must be irrelevant which word is used?

Yes, based on incorrect data gained from a different forum subject that firmpoints could mount three turret weapons and cost MCr0.1 like fixed mounts they appeared to be the same thing and could be used for both hulls < 100 d-tons and >= 100 d-tons.

Based the information you provided of "No, this was clarified by Nerhesi. Fixed mounts on small craft can mount one weapon.",
firmpoints are used to install weapons on small craft and fixed mounts do the same job on ship's >= 100 d-tons.
 
Hello Condottiere,

Condottiere said:
Firmpoint turrets should be significantly smaller.

As should the weapon systems, to reflect their lower power usage and snipped range.

I agree that the small craft firmpoint turrets should be smaller in d-tons, cost and and damage to reflect the changes as described on MgT HG 2e p. 23. Unfortunately, the material as written does not reflect the changes
 
Despite the long texts we disagree on a simple point: You say that a firmpoint is a fixed mount, I say that a firmpoint is a type of hardpoint to which you can affix turrets, fixed mounts, and barbettes.

The rules are not exactly clear, so we cannot definitely say which of us is right. (But Nerhesi might?)

Other than that I think we agree.

snrdg121408 said:
Page 23 clearly states the following:
"Ships have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."

From page 4 a "Ship is a spacecraft of 100 tons or greater." A space craft less than 100 tons is a Small Craft per page 4. The sentence should read "Small craft have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."
The full quote is:
Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints.
I agree that it is sloppy, but still understandable.

snrdg121408 said:
AnotherDilbert said:
snrdg121408 said:
5. Turrets do not use firmpoints and have a total cost for a single turret and the installed weapon. Turrets require 1 d-ton of hull space
Small craft can mount single turrets, one on each firmpoint.
Barbettes are clearly mounted on firmpoints.

Please provide the text that clearly states small craft with a turret are mounted on a "Firmpoint".
A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (...), but can be upgraded to a single (...) turret.
In other words a firmpoint can mount either a fixed mount (default) or a single turret (or half a barbette).
There is no other way to mount a turret on a small craft.
 
Hello AnotherDilbert

AnotherDilbert said:
Despite the long texts we disagree on a simple point: You say that a firmpoint is a fixed mount, I say that a firmpoint is a type of hardpoint to which you can affix turrets, fixed mounts, and barbettes.

The rules are not exactly clear, so we cannot definitely say which of us is right. (But Nerhesi might?)

No, p. 23 clearly states that "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."

During a different discussion I believe was in High Guard is here someone stated that firmpoints were fixed mounts and per p. 24 "Up to three weapons may be mounted on a fixed mount (small craft have additional limitations), while turrets can mount one, two or three weapons, depending on their type. These weapons need not be of the same type but only one type may be used in the same attack."

With the clarification by Nerhesi you provided, could you please send me a link to the subject/topic thread, I now know that firmpoints can only mount one weapon. Bummer, since the antique aircraft of today can mount a whole lot more ordnance, fuel tankage, and other stuff than a Traveller small craft. This does not make sense in light of a number of military science fiction books and computer games that have similar capabilities to the antique aircraft of today.

Hardpoints do not have a cost, the official armed small craft designs all have the same cost as a fixed mount.
If firmpoints were a type of hardpoint they should not have a cost. The evidence in the official small craft designs do not support the idea firmpoints are some type of hardpoints.

My apologies for long replies,unfortunately my efforts to be concise fails a lot worse than my long replies. So far I have failed to find the balance point.

Other than that I think we agree.

I believe we may be on the same page for a majority of the small craft rules, but we are certainly on different lines on firmpoints, hardpoints, and fixed mounts.

snrdg121408 said:
Page 23 clearly states the following:
"Ships have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."

From page 4 a "Ship is a spacecraft of 100 tons or greater." A space craft less than 100 tons is a Small Craft per page 4. The sentence should read "Small craft have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."
The full quote is:
Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints.
I agree that it is sloppy, but still understandable.

snrdg121408 said:
AnotherDilbert said:
Small craft can mount single turrets, one on each firmpoint.
Barbettes are clearly mounted on firmpoints.

Please provide the text that clearly states small craft with a turret are mounted on a "Firmpoint".
A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (...), but can be upgraded to a single (...) turret.
In other words a firmpoint can mount either a fixed mount (default) or a single turret (or half a barbette).
There is no other way to mount a turret on a small craft.
[/quote]

Small craft do not have fixed mounts they have firmpoints. If anything a firmpoint is a type of fixed mount not a hardpoint.
Turret weapons and barbettes are attached to firmpoints. Turrets and the weapons in them are installed in place of firmpoints.

The evidence provided by the official small craft ship record sheets does not show that a turret is attached to a firmpoint as shown for the empty turret installed on the Gig p. 94 displays the tons and cost of the turret. The heavy fighter and Troop Transport show that firmpoints add to the cost of the weapons mounted on them. Empty firmpoints installed on the small craft have a cost.

Page 23 states "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."

A system upgrade based on my experience in the Navy usually required adding or replacing components. A turret upgrades a firmpoint while a barbette requires two firmpoints. To me the text does not indicate the turret is mounted on a firmpoint. The Gig's ship record sheet on p. 94 does not include the annotation of firmpoint or the cost of a firmpoint and weapon installed on the heavy fighter or troop transport on p. 102.

To me the rules are clear that small craft do not have hardpoints. Firmpoints are some sort of fixed mount based on cost but are not as capable but can mount a single weapon on one firmpoint or a barbette on two firmpoints. Turrets are not attached to small craft hulls on firmpoints. Unfortunately, the rules did not explain how turrets are attached small craft.

Where are the Powers That Be keeping the clarification, corrections, and other errata for HG 2e now?

Would someone please send me the link?
 
If hardpoints don't have a cost, they are inherent in a designed ship.

If there's is a cost, they have to be declared.

And if you have to reinforce a section of the hull to take the stress, then they should have a cost.
 
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