Hello Another DIlbert.
Edit:
Got rid of junk missed earlier and adding a bit of information.
My method of learning the design rules is to read through then and then try recreating a sample design. I have reviewed all of the small craft designs for weapons against the rules. The result is the material I posted.
AnotherDilbert said:
Thats a lot of house rules.
These are not house rules they are the results of reviewing the material on page 23 and comparing the information shown on the, in theory, accurate small craft ship record sheets on pages 94 through 106. The details of which can be found in the posts found throughout this thread.
snrdg121408 said:
From the material in MgT HG 2e p. 4 my conclusion is:
1. Small craft depending on hull size in d-tons install weapons by the use of up to three firmpoints, up to three single turrets, or in one barbette.
If a barbette uses two firmpoints, the third firmpoint can mount another turret or fixed mount.
Yes, you are correct that on small craft hulls >70 and < 100 d-tons a third firmpoint or a single turret can be installed. My apologies for not including all of the combination that can be mounted on small craft hulls >70 and < 100 d-tons.
snrdg121408 said:
2. Firmpoints are the equivalent of fixed mounts, they must be designated during construction, have no space requirement, and cost Cr100,000 for each one installed.
Firmpoints can mount turrets. It is not defined when they must be declared.
Page 23 clearly states the following:
"Ships have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."
From page 4 a "Ship is a spacecraft of 100 tons or greater." A space craft less than 100 tons is a Small Craft per page 4. The sentence should read "Small craft have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints."
"A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically facing forward, but there is not requirement for this), but can be upgraded to single (not double or triple) turret."
The correct term for a small craft fixed mount is firmpoint which means technically the annotation of Fixed Mount on the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are incorrect and should be changed to Firmpoint.
Turrets on small craft upgrade/replace firmpoints just like they replace/upgrade fixed mounts on ships, spacecraft >= 100 d-tons.
Barbettes consume two firmpoints. Barbettes are clearly stated to be mounted on firmpoints.
If the text was "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically facing forward, but there is not requirement for this), but can be upgraded to single (not double or triple) turret and consumes one firmpoint." I would agree that firmpoints can mount turrets.
The ship record sheets for the launch/Pebble p. 96 and passenger shuttle p. 106 show the standard built small craft hulls without firmpoints which are the same thing as fixed mount.
The empty
Firmpoints on the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are listed with a cost of MCr0.1 on the standard built hulls.
Ship record sheets for the gig p. 94 with Single Turret, Empty, Heavy Fighter p. 102 Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser, Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack, and Troop Transport p. 104 Firmpoint, Sandcaster, Firmpoint Missile Rack are standard built small craft hulls. Deducting the weapons costs the
Firmpoints have a base cost of MCr0.1
The oddball one is the light fighter p. 94 which has a
Firmpoint, pulse laser without any cost which IIRC was mentioned on the High Guard is here page as needing errata.
Combining all the evidence published in MgT HG 2e small craft appear to designate the installation of
firmpoints/fixed mounts and turrets during construction.
Retrofitting or upgrading hulls IIRC was pointed out as not discussed in MgT HG 2e.
snrdg121408 said:
3. Firmpoints, like fixed mounts, may install up to three weapons per firmpoint installed.
No, this was clarified by Nerhesi. Fixed mounts on small craft can mount one weapon.
Thank you for the correction, in another subject thread the discussion appeared to concluded that small craft
firmpoints like fixed mounts on ships >= 100 d-tons could mount three per
firmpoint.
snrdg121408 said:
4. Firmpoints cost equals Cr100,000 plus the cost of the weapons installed and take up no space in the hull.
Fixed mounts do.
From the table on p. 24
Fixed Mount: TL -, Power 0, Tons 0, Cost MCr0.1
From the ship record sheets for Ship's Boat/Slow Boat p. 98, Pinnace/Slow Pinnace p. 100, Modular Cutter p. 102, and Shuttle p. 104 are listed with a cost of MCr0.1 on the standard built hulls.
Fixed Mounts corrected to
Firmpoints Tons 0, Cost MCr0.1
From the ship record sheets for Heavy Fighter p. 102 Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser, Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack, and Troop Transport p. 104 Firmpoint, Sandcaster, Firmpoint Missile Rack.
Total Firmpoint #1 Beam Laser MCr0.6 - Beam laser cost MCr0.5 = Firmpoint #1 Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint #2 Missile Rack MCr0.85 - Missile Rack cost MCr0.75 = Firmpoint #2 Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint Sandcaster MCr0.35 - Sandcaster cost MCr0.35 = Firmpoint Cost of MCr0.1.
Total Firmpoint Missile Rack MCr0.85 - Missile Rack cost MCr0.75 = Firmpoint Cost of MCr0.1.
No tons for any of the small craft with
firmpoints installed. Fixed mounts do not have a space requirement in tons according to p. 24.
snrdg121408 said:
5. Turrets do not use firmpoints and have a total cost for a single turret and the installed weapon. Turrets require 1 d-ton of hull space
Small craft can mount single turrets, one on each firmpoint.
Barbettes are clearly mounted on firmpoints.
Please provide the text that clearly states small craft with a turret are mounted on a "Firmpoint".
The gig ship record sheet p. 94 has an empty turret installed with the annotation of Weapons: Single Turret, Empty Tons 1 Cost MCr0.2.
An empty
Firmpoint, mislabeled as fixed mount, has a cost of MCr0.1
A Firmpoint, Beam Laser has a cost of Firmpoint MCr0.1 + Beam Laser MCr0.5 = Total Cost of MCr0.6
If the gig's empty turret is mounted on a Firmpoint the Weapon annotation should be Firmpoint, Single Turret, Empty Tons 1 and cost Firmpoint MCr0.1 + Single Turret Empty MCr0.1 = Total MCr0.2
Again the information available does not show that turrets are mounted on firmpoints anymore than they are mounted on fixed mounts for hulls >= 100 d-tons.
Per p. 23 fixed mounts, turrets, barbettes, bays, and spinal mounts are mounted to
Hardpoints on hulls >= 100 d-tons.
snrdg121408 said:
6. A barbette can be installed on small craft hulls >= 50 and <100 d-tons, requires the installation of two firmpoints for an additional Cr200,000 plus the barbette cost and requires 5 d-tons of hull space..
A barbette can be mounted on two firmpoints, 35 dT hulls have two firmpoints.
Oops, my bad I thought I had corrected my range and you are correct. Thank you for the catch. Okay, I'm blaming the error on Web Gremlins rather than my piss poor typing and reviewing skills.;-)
snrdg121408 said:
7. The small craft ship record sheets should be using the term firmpoint versus fixed mount.
You maintain that a firmpoint and a fixed mount is the same thing, then it must be irrelevant which word is used?
Yes, based on incorrect data gained from a different forum subject that firmpoints could mount three turret weapons and cost MCr0.1 like fixed mounts they appeared to be the same thing and could be used for both hulls < 100 d-tons and >= 100 d-tons.
Based the information you provided of "No, this was clarified by Nerhesi. Fixed mounts on small craft can mount one weapon.",
firmpoints are used to install weapons on small craft and fixed mounts do the same job on ship's >= 100 d-tons.