Silencers in CSC

[justacaveman]

Silencers/Suppressors do not reduce the muzzle velocity of firearms. These devices redirect the gases from firing after the bullet has left the barrel of the weapon. This allows a space for these gases to expand and cool without creating the loud noise that is normal with firearms.

Subsonic ammunition does not usually do less damage. Most manufacturers of subsonic ammo use a little less powder and a heavier bullet. The standard .45 ACP cartridge is already subsonic and it's damage is not affected by this fact (It's a very effective round.). It is only practical to make pistol ammo subsonic (Although you could make a rifle that fires big slow bullets if you wanted. It would have the range of a pistol with a shoulder stock.).

Many sniper rifles are available with suppressors that extremely reduce the muzzle flash and blast, but still fire their normal ammunition. This is because the supersonic blast caused by the bullets passage is linear and difficult to trace back to it's originator. BTW, Gauss weapons have no muzzle flash or blast and thus are already suppressed. Weapons that still fire supersonic ammo should only get a -3 DM to locate. There are a few longarms that use subsonic ammo (These are actually carbines that fire pistol ammo.)

The TL of silencers/suppressors should be TL5 not TL8. These devices have been mass-produced since WWII.

 

[BP]

Silencers/Suppressors do not reduce the muzzle velocity of firearms. ...

Generally not - but some do by design. Since they require extra attention to cleaning or wear - subsonic ammunition is generally a better choice when available.

A little confused - I don't have CSC yet - are you pointing out, correcting, adding info or spawning a new topic from another post?

 

[justacaveman]

I was pointing out misleading info in CSC. Silencers slowing down bullet velocity is an urban myth. Silencers only trap the expanding gases after the bullet has left the barrel of the weapon. Anything that tried to slow the bullet down after that point would screw up the ballistics and make the weapon terribly inaccurate. Sniper rifles with silencers on them do not fire subsonic ammo. The supersonic crack of the bullet's flight path is still there, but this isn't as helpful as the muzzle blast in locating the shooter. Generally you can't silence revolvers or shotguns, although a few execeptions exist for revolvers. Theoretically you can make a silenced shotgun using special ammo, but so far none have proved to be practical. Truly silent weapons are a combination of subsonic ammo used with a sound suppressor, and are only practical when using pistol ammo.

There is a specialized Russian silenced sniper rifle that fires special 9x39mm ammo that is subsonic. The bullets are very heavy (16 grams/246 gr), and the weapon has a range close to an assault rifle's range, and has armour-piercing capabilities.

Yes, subsonic armour-piercing ammo is available for silenced weaons.

 

[BP]

Ah - yes - a common myth... as is the Hollywood style silent pistol spys and assassins are always using - pfft. :?

It would have been nice if CSC called them suppressors and was a little more accurate - but then games are often used to reflect Hollywood sterotypes and typical misconceptions - the double-edged sword of creating an alternate fictional reality 'based' on the real world.

Some MGT weapons should be totally silent (at least in an audible range) - though even advanced weapons could have distinct 'humming' or 'zinging' effects when discharged (from the weapon or the ammunition).

For instance - I've watched lasers 'magically' make holes appear in finger thick plate steel from a distance of a few feet and never heard a sound what with the laser coming from a different area of the building (though there was surely background ambient noise in the room that may have masked subtle sounds as the metal disappeared or the laser pierced the air). Hollywood style laser sounds probably wouldn't exist - even from the weapon (such indicating inefficiencies).

 

[justacaveman]

I figure that lasers would have some sort of buzz or vibration just to let you know that it actually fired. And Gauss weapons would be considered suppressed already I'm sure you could make a subsonic Gauss weapon if you wanted.

 

[brionl]

The 300 Whisper is a fairly new subsonic round designed for use in Police Sniper rifles. Put in a new barrel and fire it out of your AR-15.

 

[GamerDude]

On thing I hate is how the average person (myself included) are, in so many things, mostly educated by tv shows and movies.. and inaccurately educated. I mean, I know what an M-16/AR-15 really sounds like because I've fired them rl in the military, doesn't help me much in gaming but hey.

Here's an idea for a gaming product... the "encyclopedia of accurate facts and sounds" so when the time comes, we can just call up that sound file "M-16 on full auto in the deep desert" to give us the realism "M-16 on full auto in the dense jungle" wouldn't give you for desert scenarios.

 

[justacaveman]

Call of Duty has fairly accurate sounds.

 

[SnowDog]

As far as I know suppressors and silencers are two different things. Unfortunately I don't remember which is which (thus not giving this argument much credibility)

Either of those actually has brushes or something that slow down the supersonic bullet and in general you can fire around 50 rounds with it without maintenance or it looses it's effectiveness. Yes, that will lower the accuracy and probably range, too.

I have actually heard someone shoot a 9mm pistol using a silencer and the sound was about as loud as firing a .22 pistol.

 

[justacaveman]

There is no difference.

The proper term is Sound Suppressor.

The reason you need to do maintenance on them is because the gases leave deposits that foul up the works inside. Also these gases are hot and can cause some of the insides of the suppressor to melt if too many rounds are fired in too short a time.

You don't slow down supersonic rounds. You either fire supersonic or subsonic ammo. A good suppressor will reduce a 9mm shot to about the volume of a .22 caliber. If you also use subsonic ammo (such as Winchester Silvertip 9mm 147 gr. Subsonic) you make even less sound. The crack of a supersonic bullet isn't that loud, is very nondirectional, and doesn't give much help locating the shooter. You do hear the crack of the supersonic bullet that dropped your buddy, and if you're quick enough you can take cover and try to avoid his fate. If subsonic ammo was used, you may stand there just a moment too long.

 

[SnowDog]

While you should not believe everything you read from the Internet this article seems genuine enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor

While it says that most of the suppressors don't lower the speed of the bullet some do.

 

[justacaveman]

There are a few designs out in the world that do try to reduce the bullet velocity, but not many. This is because such designs tend to wear out quickly and adversely affect the performance of the weapon. Revolvers generally cannot be silenced, but there is at least 1 execption to this rule. There was even an experimental silent shotgun.

You can find exceptions out there to almost any rule. I treat them as the exceptions they are, and impose whatever penalties seem appropriate.

 

[DeadMike]

The CSC also defines a shotgun as a smoothbore weapon. Since I myself own a shotgun that has a rifled barrel just for the purpose of firing slugs, this is not accurate either. There is several errors in the research though. We just modify the rules to make up for these errors.
Mike