Ship's Troops and Berthing Spaces

Depends on whether you need to fling the troops into action, immediately on arrival.

I sort of suspect you'd have similar concerns with thawing them out.
 
Well, my discussion is specifically about transported troops, not 'ship's troops'.
Transported troops are, yes, 'cargo' in a sense, but they still need to be delivered to the deployment area in condition to fight.
Ship's troops are Marines or PROFORS trained Army troops part of the ship's complement. They're trained in damage control, act as masters-at-arms providing security for the ship, and man gunnery stations aboard some ships. While they are available for deployment at the captain's discretion, such deployments are usually very short term.
Every troop transport I’ve seen written up has large Common area, Training Areas, Briefing rooms (that also can be used for study) and Armories. Just because they sleep in Barracks doesn’t mean that’s the only area they have in fact just like real life bunks are for sleeping and that all. Barracks are sleeping areas for low rank enlisted be they crew or marines that’s all they are, what they are not it the only areas available for those enlisted personal. Common areas cover things like mess halls(which from personal experience is used for more than cooking and eating I’ve been in a platoon that did its PT in a mess hall durning a South Carolina monsoon) facility (depending on you view of the imperium either coed or with gender segregation of one kind or another) and others things. Training Areas are designed to be changeable from target range to PT Field to battlefield simulation. Briefing rooms can yes be used to give briefings about missions but they also are used for none physical training which troops do a lot of. You make it sound like the only space the troops have is their bunks and that’s simply not true. The Broadsword Merc cruiser for example has 30dt of barracks for its 30 troopers but it also has a extra 14dt of common area, 4dt of briefing rooms, 10 dt of Training facilities and a 7dt armory that’s 65dt dedicated to the 30 troopers.
 
Every troop transport I’ve seen written up has large Common area, Training Areas, Briefing rooms (that also can be used for study) and Armories. Just because they sleep in Barracks doesn’t mean that’s the only area they have in fact just like real life bunks are for sleeping and that all. Barracks are sleeping areas for low rank enlisted be they crew or marines that’s all they are, what they are not it the only areas available for those enlisted personal. Common areas cover things like mess halls(which from personal experience is used for more than cooking and eating I’ve been in a platoon that did its PT in a mess hall durning a South Carolina monsoon) facility (depending on you view of the imperium either coed or with gender segregation of one kind or another) and others things. Training Areas are designed to be changeable from target range to PT Field to battlefield simulation. Briefing rooms can yes be used to give briefings about missions but they also are used for none physical training which troops do a lot of. You make it sound like the only space the troops have is their bunks and that’s simply not true. The Broadsword Merc cruiser for example has 30dt of barracks for its 30 troopers but it also has a extra 14dt of common area, 4dt of briefing rooms, 10 dt of Training facilities and a 7dt armory that’s 65dt dedicated to the 30 troopers.
Concur.
 
Fast drug isn't supposed to be sleep. It is supposed to be greatly slowed metabolism so that 1 subjective week would be 60 weeks to non drugged individuals. Nothing says you need ANY medical support. You're able to eat and drink so dehydration is not an issue.

Please cite a source for these issues.
You don't need a source to realize that only being able to move at 1/60th speed is going to really affect your ability to do things a lot, and make everyday life very dangerous. You'd be almost like someone who is paralyzed, except with just enough ability to move to get yourself into trouble. A drug like this is also going to have massive side effects. Something messing with the human metabolism that much is going to do a number on you.

Here's a list that I came up with, no need to pile them all on at once, it might be better just to make Medic and endurance rolls:

Side effects may include Hallucinations, Memory Loss, Priapism, Blood Clots, Compulsive Behaviors, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, Frequent and Violent Bowl Movements, Loss of Bladder Control, Headaches, and Dizziness, Anxiety, Restlessness, Fast heartbeat, Fever, Sweating, Muscle spasms, Twitching, Nausea, and Vomiting, Do not drive or attempt to operate heavy machinery while on Fast Drug (TM).

Talk with your physician about whether Fast Drug (TM) is right for you!
 
Well, my discussion is specifically about transported troops, not 'ship's troops'.
Transported troops are, yes, 'cargo' in a sense, but they still need to be delivered to the deployment area in condition to fight.
Ship's troops are Marines or PROFORS trained Army troops part of the ship's complement. They're trained in damage control, act as masters-at-arms providing security for the ship, and man gunnery stations aboard some ships. While they are available for deployment at the captain's discretion, such deployments are usually very short term.
Except at #45 (and you original post) you specifically mentioned Marines needing the same accommodation as other ships crewmembers. Later you started talking about packing other troops like cargo.

I am not sure why you consider the short term transportation of non-ships troops in barracks is materially different to the transport of marines. If a deployment is longer term then the accommodation the troops have en-route to that deployment is even less relevant as it forms a shorter proportion of the overall deployment time.

I am having trouble envisaging a scenario where "space dragoons" - i.e. army troops who ride space/star ships to the theatre of operations would need to spend a significant amount of time onboard. If they are conducting planetary operations I would assume space superiority has already been established (or they would be too vulnerable) and in that case there might well be options for in system reserve bases (or even at remote locations on the main world). At worst they would be brought from a system a jump away, so time aboard would be limited to no more than a single jump plus a few days transit time.

What problem are we trying to solve here?
 
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Except at #45 (and you original post) you specifically mentioned Marines needing the same accommodation as other ships crewmembers. Later you started talking about packing other troops like cargo.

I am not sure why you consider the short term transportation of non-ships troops in barracks is materially different to the transport of marines. If a deployment is longer term then the accommodation the troops have en-route to that deployment is even less relevant as it forms a shorter proportion of the overall deployment time.

I am having trouble envisaging a scenario where "space dragoons" - i.e. army troops who ride space/star ships to the theatre of operations would need to spend a significant amount of time onboard. If they are conducting planetary operations I would assume space superiority has already been established (or they would be too vulnerable) and in that case there might well be options for in system reserve bases (or even at remote locations on the main world). At worst they would be brought from a system a jump away, so time aboard would be limited to no more than a single jump plus a few days transit time.

What problem are we trying to solve here?
Let me clarify.
There are two kinds of troops transported aboard Navy vessels, ship's troops and, for lack of a better term, 'troop contingents'.

- Ship's troops 'belong' to the ship's complement just like the spacehands do. PFC Alpha is assigned to 1010th Marine Regiment and the Regiment is assigned as Ship's Troops for the 12th Battle Squadron of the Spinward Marches Fleet. Alpha's battalion is specifically assigned to the INS Outrageous. Able Spacehand Bravo is likewise assigned to the Outrageous as a gunner's mate. While they arrive at their duty stations by administratively different routes, PFC Alpha and ASH Bravo still turn wrenches on Outrageous' Missile Bay 3 and both are permanently part of the ship's listed complement.
Alpha is under the orders of both his Marine Force Commander and the Captain of Outrageous, though the Captain will likely route any orders to the Marines aboard through the Force Commander. Bravo is under the orders of Outrageous' Captain, and is not normally in a chain of command that includes Marines.

- Troop contingents are Army or Marine units being transported to their deployment zones by Navy ships. They are 'cargo' in the sense that they are temporary occupants of the ship's troop berthing. Once the ship reaches its destination, the troop contingent and all it's equipment will permanently disembark the ship for whatever campaign they're assigned to fight. At no point are troop contingents subordinate to the transporting ship's captain other than safety matters.

What I'm saying is that troops of both types ought to have the same berthing arrangements as the naval spacehands AND that troops of both types require space to train and maintain their equipment in addition to enough common space to mess and recreate. Why does a spacehand rate the comparative luxury of having just one roomate when troops are wedged into barracks stacked three to a bunk tier?
 
Let me clarify.
There are two kinds of troops transported aboard Navy vessels, ship's troops and, for lack of a better term, 'troop contingents'.

- Ship's troops 'belong' to the ship's complement just like the spacehands do. PFC Alpha is assigned to 1010th Marine Regiment and the Regiment is assigned as Ship's Troops for the 12th Battle Squadron of the Spinward Marches Fleet. Alpha's battalion is specifically assigned to the INS Outrageous. Able Spacehand Bravo is likewise assigned to the Outrageous as a gunner's mate. While they arrive at their duty stations by administratively different routes, PFC Alpha and ASH Bravo still turn wrenches on Outrageous' Missile Bay 3 and both are permanently part of the ship's listed complement.
Alpha is under the orders of both his Marine Force Commander and the Captain of Outrageous, though the Captain will likely route any orders to the Marines aboard through the Force Commander. Bravo is under the orders of Outrageous' Captain, and is not normally in a chain of command that includes Marines.

- Troop contingents are Army or Marine units being transported to their deployment zones by Navy ships. They are 'cargo' in the sense that they are temporary occupants of the ship's troop berthing. Once the ship reaches its destination, the troop contingent and all it's equipment will permanently disembark the ship for whatever campaign they're assigned to fight. At no point are troop contingents subordinate to the transporting ship's captain other than safety matters.

What I'm saying is that troops of both types ought to have the same berthing arrangements as the naval spacehands AND that troops of both types require space to train and maintain their equipment in addition to enough common space to mess and recreate. Why does a spacehand rate the comparative luxury of having just one roomate when troops are wedged into barracks stacked three to a bunk tier?
So we agree that either transported Army troops, "Marine" troops who are part of the ships complement as security/gunners and Marine regiments that are part of a warships permanent deployable complement should all be treated equally.

So your issue seems to be is assigning troops to barracks rather than the type of troops they are. In your bunk it makes little difference if you are in a room shared with 2 or 4. When you are standing your watch (either in the gunroom or at a crew station) it also makes no difference as you are not in the accommodation. So we are really talking about the 8 hours or so of "private" time.

I do see a fundamental difference between regular crew who stand regular watches vs troops that only stand to in emergencies (bearing in mind in an emergency the regular crew will likely stand too as well).

A unit of troops will tend to socialise as a group. They tend to operate as a team and so sharing accommodation is probably beneficial for the team. Whether that is a 4 man bunk-room or 5-man (depending on your doctrine) you are spending all your time with the other people who will be looking out for you on your deployment. You will socialise with the broader unit, but that very close relationship with your squad-mates will have a beneficial effect in combat. The same is true to a lesser extent regarding the ships gunners who will often need to coordinate fire arcs. I therefore also accommodate dedicated ships gunners to barracks. The fact that a Gunner is paid the lowest of all crew is also indicative of the level of accommodation they could expect. I tend to assume dedicated gunners spend the rest of their time as deckhands.

In contrast crewmembers who are not required to react instinctively in relation to the actions of their squad mates but whose job might require disagreement and discussion to resolve issues, might benefit from spending less time in the close company of others. If you and another Engineer have had a robust discussion about the solution to a problem, you might well need a place to distance yourself so you can regroup, get some perspective and be able to compartmentalise that disagreement in order to work together successfully the next shift.

We also gloss over how crews actually perform their function. It is not unreasonable to expect many of the technical crews to have facilities in their accommodation to work independently (away from distraction). That likely includes a desk space and a terminal of some sort and possibly a backup crew station. If a gunner needs some alone time to practice that is as easily performed in the gunroom or turret since it is only in use in an emergency.

Crew accommodation has become more pragmatic through the versions. Sharing a stateroom was the first step. Now with Cabin Space, Barracks and other accommodation we can revisit the general crew requirements so that they reflect the needs (and privilege) of all crew, not just troops.

Training, and maintenance and storage of equipment are covered by other components in High Guard. If you want to do more than field strip your side arm, you need an armoury or workshop. Training will be via the same mechanism that the other crew have access. By the time it becomes an issue your barracks will be sufficiently extensive that the 10% recommended common space will be able to handle it. You could fit a tube range in 1DTon if you chose the correct place to put it.
 
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My issue is that troops aboard, be they assigned ship's troops or transported troop contingents, are treated like they're cargo that can be wedged in any old where and housed in barracks with one out-house. I think that any awake sophont aboard ship should be allocated a shared stateroom and training and exercise space separate from 'common areas'. I also think that troops require cargo space for their own unique expendables separate from naval stores. Lastly, I think that transported vehicles need extra space for maintenance and and the ship will need extra workshop space in order to keep everything running.

BTW, I was a tank crewman in the US Army once upon a time. Yeah, I know that troop teams [vehicle crews, squads, whatever] live in their own little high pressure universe. The rest of the company is another planet and anything outside of the company as well be on Capital so far as the average boot is concerned. ;)

But I also distinguish between ship's troops being part of the ship's complement and troop contingents NOT being part of that complement.
Ship's troops have duties directly related to the care and feeding of the ship they're part of. They man gunnery stations, are trained for damage control, guard ship's boats and personnel planetside, form honor guards, etc. etc. etc.
Troop contingents don't. All their equipment beyond personal issue items [including weapons, which need armory space] are packed for shipment and are not accessible in transit.

Lastly, I don't think it's beyond the pale that an Army regiment with Protected Forces training might be trained as ship's troops to replace marines that might be being concentrated for a major operation. They probably won't be as good as Marines from the 'star marine' career at it, but they could be trained in the role.
 
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